The wrath of God

[sooda]

It's abstract. Original sin could be said to exist, without evidence.

Its a hereditary stain because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Of course it wasn't doctrine until about 400 AD.

Jesus died to grant salvation from original sin (via the baptism He commanded). He also died to offer us salvation from all future sins.

 

[Remté]

Where did wrong come from then, in order for us to choose it?

From the free will. Exactly how the human mind was created I don't know.

 

[Remté]

Does not work. This line of reasoning makes God an incompetent creator where the humans are 'set up' to fail in the Garden of Eden, where being Created fallible, eventually would 'Fall' to temptation, and of course the incompetent God creator must take responsibility for the mess God Created. Bad story line for a grade D movie.

It only tests incompetent people.

 

[JJ50]

Well God's wrath, you know. He isn't indifferent.

You state that as a fact when it is only a belief on your part!

 

[Windwalker]

From the free will. Exactly how the human mind was created I don't know.

Some other supernatural deity? God is not the only creator then?

 

[shunyadragon]

Pretty sure original sin isn't necessary. Don't meet many perfect people?

You will not meet perfect people, but 'Original Sin' is the belief that humanity inherited by the 'Fall' of temptation by Adam and Eve putting the responsibility on them for all the suffering of all of humanity since. Biblically in the concept of the 'Fall' and 'Original Sin' humans were without sin, death and suffering before the 'Fall.'

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Does the idea of God's wrath seem negative or harsh? I often hear people say something like, "God of the OT was wrathful, but loving in the NT". Yet both the OT and the NT portray God as a holy Judge who expresses anger and brings judgment against wrongdoing, injustice and evil. It appears His very character of love, holiness, purity, perfection, and orderliness is contrary to all disorder.

How many have considered that God cannot be love, as the scriptures indicate, if He is not displeased with wrongdoing, does not exercise justice. and have plans to eliminate injustice and evil ?

Tracie Harris from the Atheist Experience once said it nicely:

"When somebody is about to rape a little boy, God says go right ahead, but when you are done and when you die, then I'm going to punish you. Now if I would know of someone who's about to rape a little boy, I'ld stop him if I had the power to. If I didn't, then you'ld consider me a monster and rightfully so.
And that's the difference between me and your God. I'ld not allow that rape to take place."

 

[KingTruth]

Does the idea of God's wrath seem negative or harsh? I often hear people say something like, "God of the OT was wrathful, but loving in the NT". Yet both the OT and the NT portray God as a holy Judge who expresses anger and brings judgment against wrongdoing, injustice and evil. It appears His very character of love, holiness, purity, perfection, and orderliness is contrary to all disorder.

How many have considered that God cannot be love, as the scriptures indicate, if He is not displeased with wrongdoing, does not exercise justice. and have plans to eliminate injustice and evil ?

Now we’re sure evil exists. Is God good? Would he have ultimate power if he was bad? God is only good and that’s why he has ultimate power. You know good is stronger than evil.

So why hasn’t God just eradicated all evil then? The simple logical answer is that he IS eliminating evil. It’s just that it takes time; evil has enough power to prevent its immediate death. Goodness will finally vanquish all evil ONLY after striking sufficient killer blows.

As a human, I look in the mirror. They say the wages of sin is death and all humans die someday! This means all humans are evil sinners! Crazy fact. Unless you’re a good vampire who won’t age and can never die. God has the power to defeat death because he is good. Humans on the other hand, what do they have? Anus, reproductive organs, sweaty smelly bodies, produce feces, produces urine etc These are definitely not good characteristics. Humans are evil and love to sin then one day receive their dues: death.

When God finally eradicates evil, humanity would be absent. Killing off evil is like cooking a meal; it’s only ready after sometime with the fire and not immediately.

 

[Jainarayan]

Having given it considerable thought over the years, I have to say that the God of the Bible is indeed a moody, vengeful God, verging on sadism. Along with that consideration, I think of him as just another deity running rampant in the cosmos, with no more power than he is allowed to have. Why Vishnu permits it, only he knows for his own good reasons. But it will come to an end. It's happened before and will happen again. Out-of-control deities, rakshasas and asuras always get slapped down either by Vishnu, or Shiva, or both.

 

[viole]

I do doubt it indeed. Doing evil corrupts the soul. No escaping it. The more evil one does the less they notice the decay of their soul.

What soul?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Did you know that on a way He made human higher in nature than angels?

So what happened to the wings? That looks like a downgrade to me.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Well God's wrath, you know. He isn't indifferent.

And probably not omniscient either. For if He was, that It is like creating X, knowing perfectly well that X will make a mess in N years, and then get a hissy fit when it happens.

Oh boy, He surely works in mysterious ways.

Ciao

- viole

 

[JJ50]

So what happened to the wings? That looks like a downgrade to me.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

God created all things good to start with, yet gave human beings freewill, choice in order to have the ability to authentically love. It is not God's fault if humans have chosen to abuse the gift of freedom choosing wrong and evil over good.

Why did He give us free will, even assuming that there is such a thing? That looks totally counterproductive.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

God created all things good to start with, yet gave human beings freewill, choice in order to have the ability to authentically love. It is not God's fault if humans have chosen to abuse the gift of freedom choosing wrong and evil over good.

That is what happens when you try to create imperfect beings in your image, without knowing what you are really doing.

Suggestion to the Almighty for a possible next time: either make them really like you, ergo incapable of sinning, or just drop that “in your image” label” that just confuses things.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Vinayaka]

Why do you assume "doing evil?" Am I to conclude that without fear of God's wrath that you would be an evil person?

Two kinds of people ... good (those that think my way) and evil (those that disagree with my way)

Gosh it's such a simplistic view of life. I've never understood it. Nor do you, I suspect, lol.

 

[columbus]

Having given it considerable thought over the years, I have to say that the God of the Bible is indeed a moody, vengeful God, verging on sadism.

The thing is, "the God of the Bible" is multiple characters. His abilities and attributes change hugely through the Book. Because the people inventing Him change.

Would Jesus's Abba needed spies to scope out Sodom? No.

Would Moses's God YHWH needed to personally inspect Babel? No.

The Abrahamic God is multiple characters, invented by people. And reinvented over the course of centuries. As the people Creating a God in their own image became more sophisticated so did the God the Created.

From the bumbling desert warlord to the Prince of Peace, people just keep reimagining God as He would be if they were God. And then insisting that their God is the True God.
Tom

 

[Jainarayan]

The thing is, "the God of the Bible" is multiple characters. His abilities and attributes change hugely through the Book. Because the people inventing Him change.

Would Jesus's Abba needed spies to scope out Sodom? No.

Would Moses's God YHWH needed to personally inspect Babel? No.

The Abrahamic God is multiple characters, invented by people. And reinvented over the course of centuries. As the people Creating a God in their own image became more sophisticated so did the God the Created.

From the bumbling desert warlord to the Prince of Peace, people just keep reimagining God as He would be if they were God. And then insisting that their God is the True God.
Tom

Good points. If he is not a single "moody, vengeful God, verging on sadism", though I still think of him as "just another deity" and not the creator or ruler of the universe, then he has gotten an unfair and bad rap. I'll concede that.

 

[shunyadragon]

Now we’re sure evil exists. Is God good? Would he have ultimate power if he was bad? God is only good and that’s why he has ultimate power. You know good is stronger than evil.

It is ore important how you define evil, and not whether evil exists or not. The Baha'i Faith teaches that evil in and of itself does not exist.

From: How Do You Define Evil?

"Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence… In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence—that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth… – Some Answered Questions, p. 263.

…all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life… all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent. – ibid, p. 263."

 

[shunyadragon]

It only tests incompetent people.

A little of a bazzaro response. In this elitist scenario, which humans are above temptation?

The problem remains God is responsible for the creation of the nature of being a fallible, and the temptation and 'Fall' of Adam and Eve. This brings to question the Biblical use of the Wrath of God proposing an anthropomorphic fallible God making arbitrary decisions in extreme forms of punishment that is also common in the OT.