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Science is a false God

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
The idea that there is no absolute morality is of course correct.

You're not making any sense.

For legitimate ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ to exist morality simply cannot be relative for this makes ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ vulnerable to mere caprice. Under such an ambivalent standard absolutely nothing is actually ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ rendering these terms utterly otiose; conveying a distinction without a difference.

Accordingly:

(1) If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties don't exist.

(2) If evil exists, objective moral values and duties exist.

(3) Evil exists.

(4) Therefore, objective moral values and duties do exist.

(5) Therefore, God exists.

(6) Therefore, God is the locus of all objective moral values and duties.

That's to say, as Dostoevsky once mused, "If there is no God, everything is permitted."
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
The idea that our morality comes from God is rather refuted by the existence of morality in civilizations long before 1500 BCE, which is roughly when Yahweh was invented.

But what happens when that innate moral sense gets mangled beyond all recognition as in the case of those like you who approve of expectant mothers murdering their children? What then?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You're not making any sense.

For legitimate ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ to exist morality simply cannot be relative for this makes ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ vulnerable to mere caprice. Under such an ambivalent standard absolutely nothing is actually ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ rendering these terms utterly otiose; conveying a distinction without a difference.

Accordingly:

(1) If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties don't exist.

(2) If evil exists, objective moral values and duties exist.

(3) Evil exists.

(4) Therefore, objective moral values and duties do exist.

(5) Therefore, God exists.

(6) Therefore, God is the locus of all objective moral values and duties.​

That's to say, as Dostoevsky once mused, "If there is no God, everything is permitted."

This is not a convincing argument for the existence of a god. We can't make one appear with words if none exists.

I have a strong sense of right and wrong, what I call my internal moral compass. It used to change a lot and often, when I was young and learning more then than now. Today, with many more years under my belt, my moral compass is fairly steady. I am aware of no objective moral standard, just suggestions (often worded as unenforcable commandments).

Whatever physics and psychology permit is permitted, but not always without undesirable consequences.

Are you pro-baby murder or not?

Not. Please don't murder babies. But feel free to abort fetuses if that is your choice for as long as it remains safe and legal.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For legitimate ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ to exist morality simply cannot be relative for this makes ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ vulnerable to mere caprice.
Give me an example of an absolute moral statement. They must exist if you're right, but I've never seen one.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But what happens when that innate moral sense gets mangled beyond all recognition as in the case of those like you who approve of expectant mothers murdering their children? What then?
What happens when you take God as your example and order that all the conquered citizens be put to death except the virgins and young marriageable women, who are to be shared out among the troops?

Do you approve impaling seven of Saul's sons before God so as to expiate Saul's bloodguilt towards the Gibeonites?

Do you think it's a great idea to crucify your son to yourself when with one snap of your omnipotent fingers you could get the result you want without the gore?

Do you, obedient to God's order, refuse to consort with menstruating women?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Many who say there is no God because science can't prove it actually worship science.

"Let us notice this morning how modern man has made a god of science. It was quite easy for modern man to put his ultimate faith in science because science had brought about such remarkable advances, such tangible and amazing victories. He realized that man through his scientific genius had dwarfed distances and placed time in chains. He noticed the new comforts that had been brought about by science, from the vast improvements in communication to the elimination of many dread plagues and diseases. And so after noticing these astounding successes modern man ushered in a new god and a new religion. Individual scientist became the high priests, chemical and biological instrumants became sacramental agencies through which the invisible grace of the scientific god became visibly manifested, and scientific laboratories became the sanctuaries. And so modern man dutifully worshipped at the shrine of the god of science.

But today we are confronted with the tragic fact that the god of science which we so devoutly worshipped has brought about the possibility of universal annihilation, and so man today stands on the brink of atomic destruction aghast, panic-stricken and petrified. He realizes now that his greatest need is not science which is power, but wisdom which is control. Doubtless some one has been saying, but is it not right to devote ourselves to scientific adventure? Is not science important for the progress of civilization? To this I would answer yes. No person of sound intelligence could minimize science. It is not science in itself that I am condemning, {but it is the tendency of projecting it to the status of God that I am condemning.} We must come to see that science only furnishes us with the means by which we live, but never with the spiritual ends for which we live. And so we must turn back and give our ultimate devotion to the God who integrates the whole of life, to the God in whom we live and move and have our being, to the God who has been our help in ages past, our hope for years to come, our shelter from the stormy blast, and our eternal home.6 Preached July 5, 1953"

False Gods We Worship | The Martin Luther King, Jr., Research and Education Institute

So...wait...if we treat science religiously, mankind might wipe itself out. Better we worship a God who...wiped...us...out?!

I'm confused.

How about we use our brains to the best of our ability and don't worship anything. Isn't that the lesson here?
 

JChnsc19

Member
If those places are so awesome and moral why are their suicide rates so extraordinarily high?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
If those places are so awesome and moral why are their suicide rates so extraordinarily high?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
I don’t know & I don’t care. I said if you were curious about that kinda stuff you could look into it.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Again, precisely where in the Bible does God explicitly mandate any of this?
Goodness, don't you read your bible?

Invasive wars:
Exodus 33:1-2, Numbers 21:14 refers to 'The Book of the Wars of the Lord' Number 21:21-25, Numbers 34:1+, Deuteronomy 2:30+, blah blah, and you can look up Joshua for yourself, and more.​

Mass rapes
See the previous answer about slavery and Numbers 31:9-18 and Judges 21:8-23 and more.​

Human sacrifices
Genesis 22:1-12
Judges 11:29-40
2 Samuel 21:1-9
Jonah 1 12-17
And of course Jesus.​
 

JChnsc19

Member
You're not making any sense.

For legitimate ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ to exist morality simply cannot be relative for this makes ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ vulnerable to mere caprice. Under such an ambivalent standard absolutely nothing is actually ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ rendering these terms utterly otiose; conveying a distinction without a difference.

Accordingly:

(1) If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties don't exist.

(2) If evil exists, objective moral values and duties exist.

(3) Evil exists.

(4) Therefore, objective moral values and duties do exist.

(5) Therefore, God exists.

(6) Therefore, God is the locus of all objective moral values and duties.

That's to say, as Dostoevsky once mused, "If there is no God, everything is permitted."
And yet you still haven’t defined your god nor have you proved the existence and or validity of the god nor the Bible. Waste of my time with dodgers, I’m out
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Which is it? Are you pro-baby murder or not?
I'm simply pro-choice with abortion. God's okay with infanticide as well as abortion (Hosea 13:16, for example) so what's your beef, exactly?

Oh, and two other things:

Jesus said not one letter of the law would be altered till the Kingdom is installed, which so far isn't the case, so all the matters mentioned must still apply to Christians.

And next time would you please put all your questions into the one post.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
If Science is a god, does that make Technology, Engineering and Maths demi-gods?
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Give me an example of an absolute moral statement. They must exist if you're right, but I've never seen one.

"You must not murder." - Exodus 20:13

"From within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.” -Mark 7:21-23
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
I have a strong sense of right and wrong, what I call my internal moral compass. It used to change a lot and often, when I was young and learning more then than now.

But what happens when that innate moral sense gets mangled beyond all recognition as in the case of those like you who approve of expectant mothers murdering their children? What then?
 
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