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Science is a false God

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Nice deflection but I didn't ask you that. What I'm still waiting for you to answer is, "On what objective moral basis do you dare condemn anyone's moral values?"
I don't wish to answer your question for anyone else, but I'd say that the objective part of human morality is the genetic tendencies we've evolved as gregarious primates: nurture and protection of offspring, a dislike of the one who harms, reciprocity and fairness, respect for authority, loyalty to the group and a sense of self-worth/virtue through self-denial.

Those are the basics, found in infants and in cultures around the world.

Other moral traits are variable, acquired from upbringing, culture, education and experience eg whether at a wedding there's a bride-price, a dowry, something else or nothing to be paid; whether and when it's okay to spit; and so on.
 

JChnsc19

Member
Nice deflection but I didn't ask you that. What I'm still waiting for you to answer is, "On what objective moral basis do you dare condemn anyone's moral values?"
I get my morality from well being. I don’t want anyone to enslave me or kill everyone in my town except the virgins. I don’t want to be robbed so I don’t rob people. I’m not condemning “anyone’s” morals, I’m condemning the morals from the Bible on the basis that I think it’s wrong to harm other people.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
Really? Can you take a moment and prove what’s so stagnating about these?

"For “whoever would love life and see good days must guard his tongue from bad and his lips from speaking deception. Let him turn away from what is bad and do what is good; let him seek peace and pursue it." -1 Peter 3:11

“But now you must put them all away from you: wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another. Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, humility, mildness, and patience. Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely even if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Just as Jehovah freely forgave you, you must also do the same. But besides all these things, clothe yourselves with love, for it is a perfect bond of union.” - Colossians 3:8,9, 12-14.

“Never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles.” -Matthew 6:34

““You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have?" (Matthew 5:43-46)

“Even a child is known by his actions, whether his behavior is pure and right.” -Proverbs 20:11​
Anyone with half a brain and a lick of human decency knows how to treat others. If a person needs a god or needs to read a book on how to behave properly they are a lost cause. Even the last quote of your sermon backs that up as science has shown morals, sympathy, and compassion are shown in young babies long before zealots start their indoctrination and brainwashing of innocent children with stories they themselves were indoctrinated with.
 

JChnsc19

Member
Indirect evidence is frequently and consistently relied upon to ascertain the reality of our world. As a case in point, it's long been widely used to show that our Sun generates power via nuclear fusion, hydrogen is present in it or that our planet features an iron core. In like manner, the fact that there are dozens upon dozens of fulfilled Bible prophecies constitutes probative evidence of the existence of its author, Jehovah God.

This fact is, by far, the most compelling logical reason why millions upon millions of rational people today the world over only accept the Bible as the Inspired Word of Jehovah God. Simply no other book – religious or not – comes with such illustrious prominence. Because it's impossible for any person to foresee with complete precision what's sure to occur from one hour to the next, there's no two ways about it: Bible prophecies are not of natural origin. I kindly invite you to examine for yourself various examples of these specific and accurately fulfilled prophecies.
Like the prophecy of Tyre?

What verses in the Bible speak to nuclear fusion?

And no amount of people accepting a religion neither demonstrates the validity or evidence of it.

And I would think other religions would claim indirect evidence too, would you agree?
 
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Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
I don't wish to answer your question for anyone else, but I'd say that the objective part of human morality is the genetic tendencies we've evolved as gregarious primates: nurture and protection of offspring, a dislike of the one who harms, reciprocity and fairness, respect for authority, loyalty to the group and a sense of self-worth/virtue through self-denial.

Those are the basics, found in infants and in cultures around the world.

Other moral traits are variable, acquired from upbringing, culture, education and experience eg whether at a wedding there's a bride-price, a dowry, something else or nothing to be paid; whether and when it's okay to spit; and so on.

Hmmmmm . . . if you're taking your cues on what normal behavior is from the realm of irrational beasts why don't you chop the heads off your partners after sex like the irrational Praying Mantis? Or how about committing dominance rape or having sex with young children as practiced by irrational primates? How about eating your own feces the way irrational pigs, dogs, cows and primates like to? Should it be legal for you to kill and eat babies because irrational beasts do?
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Anyone with half a brain and a lick of human decency knows how to treat others. If a person needs a god or needs to read a book on how to behave properly they are a lost cause. Even the last quote of your sermon backs that up as science has shown morals, sympathy, and compassion are shown in young babies long before zealots start their indoctrination and brainwashing of innocent children with stories they themselves were indoctrinated with.



Which explains why you're opposed to pregnant mothers murdering their children and gays marrying little boys, yes?

https://www.dailyxtra.com/homosexual-marriage-in-19th-century-africa-70328
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Like the prophecy of Tyre?


Tyre was a prominent seaport of Phoenicia that had dealt treacherously with ancient Israel, her southern neighbor that worshiped Jehovah. Through a prophet named Ezekiel, Jehovah foretold its complete destruction over 250 years before it happened. Jehovah declared: “I will bring up against you many nations . . . And they will certainly bring the walls of Tyre to ruin and tear down her towers, and I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what she will become in the midst of the sea.” Ezekiel also named in advance the first nation and its leader to besiege Tyre: “Here I am bringing against Tyre Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon.”—Ezekiel 26:3-5, 7.


As foretold, Nebuchadrezzar [Nebuchadnezzar] did later overthrow mainland Tyre, The Encyclopædia Britannica reporting “a 13-year siege . . . by Nebuchadrezzar.” After the siege it was reported that he took no spoils: “As for wages, there proved to be none for him.” (Ezekiel 29:18) Why not? Because part of Tyre was on an island across a narrow channel. Most of Tyre’s treasures had been transferred from the mainland to that island part of the city, which was not destroyed.


But Nebuchadrezzar’s conquest did not “scrape [Tyre’s] dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface” as Ezekiel had foretold. Nor was Zechariah’s prophecy fulfilled, which said that Tyre would be pitched “into the sea.” (Zechariah 9:4) Were these prophecies inaccurate? Not at all. Over 250 years after Ezekiel’s prophecy and nearly 200 years after Zechariah’s, Tyre was totally destroyed by Greek armies under Alexander the Great, in 332 B.C.E. “With the debris of the mainland portion of the city,” explains the Encyclopedia Americana, “he built a huge [causeway] in 332 to join the island to the mainland. After a seven months’ siege . . . he captured and destroyed Tyre.”


Today “as with much of what was once Phoenicia, little remains of the great cities that stood at the center of this ancient maritime power. None of the original buildings they lived in and temples they built are still standing, and there is no great wealth of art depicting exactly how they lived. In fact, it has taken chance and persistent digging just to uncover some of the foundation traces of these intrepid people, despite the once heralded majesty of their municipalities. And, albeit informative, what has been physically brought to light does not pack the same kind of punch that tripping through Pompeii or the Roman Forum does.” -Phoenicia


Thus, as predicted by Ezekiel and Zechariah, Tyre’s dust and debris did end up in the midst of the water. She was left a bare crag, “a place to spread nets upon”. So, prophecies spoken hundreds of years earlier were fulfilled in exact detail thus proving that the Bible is of, not human, but divine origin!
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
I get my morality from well being. I don’t want anyone to enslave me or kill everyone in my town except the virgins. I don’t want to be robbed so I don’t rob people. I’m not condemning “anyone’s” morals, I’m condemning the morals from the Bible on the basis that I think it’s wrong to harm other people.

So your moral values are grounded in your own narcissism . . . interesting . . .
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hmmmmm . . . if you're taking your cues on what normal behavior is from the realm of irrational beasts why don't you chop the heads off your partners after sex like the irrational Praying Mantis?
Were I a praying mantis I might take being eaten as a normal part of sex.

But I'm an example of H sap sap, and I'm interested to see what we can find out about ourselves. The matters I pointed out to you as moral tendencies in all humans are derived both from anthropological studies around the world, and from the study of infants. Their existence as moral tendencies is undoubted, and their genetic origin is shown by their universality.

Of course, important behavior traits in humans are also down to our possession of mirror neurons, the parts of the brain that let us see the world through the eyes of someone (or something) else.

The idea that there is no absolute morality is of course correct. The idea that our morality comes from God is rather refuted by the existence of morality in civilizations long before 1500 BCE, which is roughly when Yahweh was invented.
Or how about committing dominance rape or having sex with young children as practiced by irrational primates?
We know chimps and some birds have mirror neurons, and no doubt other species have them too. H sap sap has no monopoly on empathy.

(The bible sets out the rules for dominance rape in the section on slaves. God of course orders invasive wars, massacres, mass rapes, human sacrifices, slavery, subordination of women, religious intolerance and so much more. Personally I'm opposed to all of that.)
Should it be legal for you to kill and eat babies because irrational beasts do?
The bible also expressly supports infanticide and abortion. I oppose infanticide. I don't think of women as breeding cows so I'm pro-choice.

Meanwhile we kill and eat baby animals and birds (and their eggs) all day every day.
 
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JChnsc19

Member
So your moral values are grounded in your own narcissism . . . interesting . . .
It behooves us to create the society we want to coexist in. I’m accountable to the 6/7 million people on this planet. I am forced to share space so I’m choosing to live cooperatively among them. I don’t want a neighborhood rife with murder, rape, robbery so I’m promoting an environment free of the same by living that example.

I’m doing random acts of kindness for the sake of goodness, not the sake of a god.

I guess if you really want to drill down on morals without god you could look at Denmark, Sweden & japan. They’re some of the most godless places on earth yet have some of the lowest rapes of rape/crime and score high on societal markers like overall health, education, low infant mortality. If you’re sincerely asking how a society can thrive/ have morals without god, those countries may be a place to read up on.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
No and that next one is a tricky question. I don't believe in God because I should. One either believes or doesn't and some are confused.
I meant to ask, what reasons, or ways are there that causes a person to believe in God. If someone asks me, I reply, His words which are revealed in Holy Books establishes the truth of His claims.

Here is its evidence from the Quran:

"And Allah will establish the truth by His words, even if the criminals dislike it." 10:82
 

Remté

Active Member
I meant to ask, what reasons, or ways are there that causes a person to believe in God. If someone asks me, I reply, His words which are revealed in Holy Books establishes the truth of His claims.

Here is its evidence from the Quran:

"And Allah will establish the truth by His words, even if the criminals dislike it." 10:82
Well I don't have any experience of coming to faith by reading God's word. I believed first before I could even read properly. For me it would have come from a feeling I am blessed despite all. To put it short I really don't know. That is very complicated and must lead to speculation. Would make an interesting thread though.
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
It behooves us to create the society we want to coexist in. I’m accountable to the 6/7 million people on this planet. I am forced to share space so I’m choosing to live cooperatively among them. I don’t want a neighborhood rife with murder, rape, robbery so I’m promoting an environment free of the same by living that example.

I’m doing random acts of kindness for the sake of goodness, not the sake of a god.

I guess if you really want to drill down on morals without god you could look at Denmark, Sweden & japan. They’re some of the most godless places on earth yet have some of the lowest rapes of rape/crime and score high on societal markers like overall health, education, low infant mortality. If you’re sincerely asking how a society can thrive/ have morals without god, those countries may be a place to read up on.

If those places are so awesome and moral why are their suicide rates so extraordinarily high?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
 
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