Genesis 1:26

[Diaz3618]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The Bible sats that the Word was with God and the Word was God. There were two "persons" in existence for all time. The Father and the Word and the two together made up God. Later the Word became flesh and was called Jesus. So there is no trinity but there is a Father and a Son who together are called God.

 

[rosends]

From what tradition do you want an answer?

 

[sooda]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

That's a hard one. I'd say religion evolved into monotheism over time. The Holy Spirit is mentioned in Genesis so that is probably a pretty old concept.

The Hebrews were not strictly monotheistic early on if you want to concentrate on them.. They probably shared the Canaanite pantheon of gods. There are hints that they did.. Yam, as in Yam Suf, Yam or Yamm was a god of the sea.. Yam was the champion of El and was hostile towards Baal .. Yamm's palace was in the "abyss".

Then there's Asherah.. who was worshipped in Jerusalem if you take into account the 4,000 clay idols they have found. She may have been a deity that women looked to in fertility and childbirth... or the Queen of Heaven and wife of God.

Jesus as the son of God is recent by ancient standards.. Both Jews and Muslims balk at the idea that God has offspring.

 

[Earthling]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

Good question. God created his son, Michael, who then created everything as his Father's master worker. So in that verse, God was talking to his son.

(Genesis 11:7) Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.”

(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

(Colossians 1:16) because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Later, the same applies to Genesis 3:22: And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—”

The angels were created and then allowed to mature to the point where they recognized, on their own, their creator's sovereignty, and so mankind was allowed a similar period to mature, which was called God's rest. Adam didn't mature before he rejected Jehovah's sovereignty. He chose t decide what is good and what is bad before he matured in order to do that. Thus the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is bad.

 

[sooda]

Good question. God created his son, Michael, who then created everything as his Father's master worker. So in that verse, God was talking to his son.

(Genesis 11:7) Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.”

(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence

(Colossians 1:16) because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

Later, the same applies to Genesis 3:22: And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—”

The angels were created and then allowed to mature to the point where they recognized, on their own, their creator's sovereignty, and so mankind was allowed a similar period to mature, which was called God's rest. Adam didn't mature before he rejected Jehovah's sovereignty. He chose t decide what is good and what is bad before he matured in order to do that. Thus the tree of knowledge of what is good and what is bad.

Just about every religion has a tree of life and a tree of knowledge .. You might enjoy exploring that.

I have wondered about the snake in Eden.. Snake cults had been around long before Genesis.. maybe it was about dueling religions.

 

[Earthling]

Just about every religion has a tree of life and a tree of knowledge .. You might enjoy exploring that.

You know, I've studied briefly, all of the major religions and many of their sacred or quasi-sacred texts and I've never come across that or had it pointed out to me.

I have wondered about the snake in Eden.. Snake cults had been around long before Genesis.. maybe it was about dueling religions.

I don't agree with the video below, but it is an interesting interpretation. The snake, in an evolutionary sense, being the predator and making our vision crucial for defense.

From Bible chronology 1,665 years, I think it is, from the time of Adam's creation to the flood is encapsulated in, like . . . well, let me look it up . . . actually, 1,656 years pass in just 35 verses. (Genesis 5:1-29; Genesis 7:6) and if you add 430 years to that, you have 1513 B.C.E. which is the year Moses began to write Genesis. That's 2,086 years. The tower of Babel was built about 2269 B.C.E. that's 1,943 years of storytelling in which the myths of antiquity had to promulgate before Moses set about to write the actual events, if you're a Bible believer.

 

[sooda]

You know, I've studied briefly, all of the major religions and many of their sacred or quasi-sacred texts and I've never come across that or had it pointed out to me.



I don't agree with the video below, but it is an interesting interpretation. The snake, in an evolutionary sense, being the predator and making our vision crucial for defense.

From Bible chronology 1,665 years, I think it is, from the time of Adam's creation to the flood is encapsulated in, like . . . well, let me look it up . . . actually, 1,656 years pass in just 35 verses. (Genesis 5:1-29; Genesis 7:6) and if you add 430 years to that, you have 1513 B.C.E. which is the year Moses began to write Genesis. That's 2,086 years. The tower of Babel was built about 2269 B.C.E. that's 1,943 years of storytelling in which the myths of antiquity had to promulgate before Moses set about to write the actual events, if you're a Bible believer.

I think he's an idiot.

In the ancient world the snake was seen as a symbol of wisdom, fertility and renewal.. I suppose because it could shed its skin. Snake cults dominated in Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt, the Arabian peninsula and the Indus Valley.

 

[Earthling]

I think he's an idiot.

Goddammit! The chicks don't dig Peterson much, aye?

OK. Fair enough, I suppose.

In the ancient world the snake was seen as a symbol of wisdom, fertility and renewal.. I suppose because it could shed its skin. Snake cults dominated in Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt, the Arabian peninsula and the Indus Valley.

Yes, that I've heard of.

 

[sooda]

Goddammit! The chicks don't dig Peterson much, aye?

OK. Fair enough, I suppose.



Yes, that I've heard of.

Well, he's on a roll.. as pundit du jour. I think he's ignorant. Look up Ourobouros. Its pretty much universal.

 

[Ellen Brown]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

I am told that when God is referred to as "We", it is just an indication of greatness. I hope that one of the Jews contributes to this discussion. Arabic and Islam is the same.

 

[Earthling]

Well, he's on a roll.. as pundit du jour. I think he's ignorant. Look up Ourobouros. Its pretty much universal.

Ourobouros (Link) I think he (Peterson) would be aware of the Jungian concept, and briefly mentioned the yin and yang of alchemist perspective, but in the video I gave he was concentrating primarily on the "evolutionary" perspective. In this thread we have discussed briefly the "evolutionary," "mythological," "theological," "Biblical" and "psychological" concepts of the serpent / dragon.

Not bad, aye?

Peterson usually associates that with fear / chaos, I think. Fear of the unknown or known unknown. The hero goes off to confront his fear, which is always represented by a serpent / dragon, often with a treasure gained at the successful conclusion. That's mythological.

There are also differences between the eastern and western symbolism of the serpent.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

I am told that when God is referred to as "We", it is just an indication of greatness. I hope that one of the Jews contributes to this discussion. Arabic and Islam is the same.

That is a good question and Baha'u'llah offers many answers to that question.

One aspect is that God can not be known in Essence, the door is closed to that knowledge.

Thus God sends His Messengers in each age, every one of those Messengers is known by a differnt name and is given a specific Message. All these Mesengers are also One with God in the Holy Spirit.

Thus if we see them as individuals, the plural is applicable. If we see them from the One and only God, then the Oneness of God is also upheld.

There is a lot on this subject in the Baha'i Writings.

I can share if you have specific questions.

Regards Tony

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So my question is: why does "God" refer to himself in plural? (Let us create...)

I did some research, and the Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Bible (at least not as "Trinity", there are hints of it). Why would a "God" that claims to be only God refer to what looks like others like him (as if he was one of many; "our likeness")?

*I'm an atheist (just in case)

He was just speaking with someone else. Otherwise, He'd be schizophrenic.

 

[nPeace]

The Bible sats that the Word was with God and the Word was God. There were two "persons" in existence for all time. The Father and the Word and the two together made up God. Later the Word became flesh and was called Jesus. So there is no trinity but there is a Father and a Son who together are called God.

So you don't believe in the three person thingy. Cool.

Were angels around at the time?
It looks that way - Job 38:7
So there was a point in time when the angels were not there, and then they arrived, right? Yes. The angels were made, or created by God. - Hebrews 1:7

What about Jesus? Was there a point in time when Jesus wan not in existence? Colossians 1:15-17; Revelation 3:14; John 1:14-18; 3:16
It looks that way. Yes.

It is interesting that from Jesus' own mouth, he called himself a morning star. Revelation 22:16
Why would Jesus do that? Because it's the truth? Yes. Jesus himself is an angel. What is an angel? Hebrews 1:4-7
Correct. An angel is a messenger. A spirit being, created by God as his attendants... to minister. Isn't that why Jesus is called the Word? Of course! It makes sense, since he is the chief messenger!

Bingo!
God was speaking to Jesus, who was his master worker - working alongside Jehovah, in creating all things.
Wow! A father son relationship that existed for eons of time. No wonder Jesus is the exact representation of his father. No wonder he only does what he sees the father doing, and what the father wants, and commands.
John 5:19 . . .the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner.
John 5:30; 6:38; 12:49, 50

Jesus acts wisely, in obeying the father, because he values his life, which he says depends on the father - the source of life.
John 6:57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

Here we have it, from Jesus own mouth - He lives because of the father. He did not always exist. He had a beginning, unlike the father. We could not want it any clearer than that. Although it has been made clearer numerous times... but hey, who's listening?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So you don't believe in the three person thingy. Cool.

Were angels around at the time?
It looks that way - Job 38:7
So there was a point in time when the angels were not there, and then they arrived, right? Yes. The angels were made, or created by God. - Hebrews 1:7

What about Jesus? Was there a point in time when Jesus wan not in existence? Colossians 1:15-17; Revelation 3:14; John 1:14-18; 3:16
It looks that way. Yes.

It is interesting that from Jesus' own mouth, he called himself a morning star. Revelation 22:16
Why would Jesus do that? Because it's the truth? Yes. Jesus himself is an angel. What is an angel? Hebrews 1:4-7
Correct. An angel is a messenger. A spirit being, created by God as his attendants... to minister. Isn't that why Jesus is called the Word? Of course! It makes sense, since he is the chief messenger!

Bingo!
God was speaking to Jesus, who was his master worker - working alongside Jehovah, in creating all things.
Wow! A father son relationship that existed for eons of time. No wonder Jesus is the exact representation of his father. No wonder he only does what he sees the father doing, and what the father wants, and commands.
John 5:19 . . .the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner.
John 5:30; 6:38; 12:49, 50

Jesus acts wisely, in obeying the father, because he values his life, which he says depends on the father - the source of life.
John 6:57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

Here we have it, from Jesus own mouth - He lives because of the father. He did not always exist. He had a beginning, unlike the father. We could not want it any clearer than that. Although it has been made clearer numerous times... but hey, who's listening?

No, I do not think there was a time when Jesus did not exist. He just changed his name. At the beginning of time there was the Father and the Word. The Word actually did all of the work of creation. All things were made by Him. Later this Word was made flesh and called Jesus. So these two "persons" have always existed and together make up what should correctly by called "God". The confusion comes from the fact that many people use the word "God" when they are talking about the Father. The Father and Son are separate but are both part of God.

 

[nPeace]

No, I do not think there was a time when Jesus did not exist. He just changed his name. At the beginning of time there was the Father and the Word. The Word actually did all of the work of creation. All things were made by Him. Later this Word was made flesh and called Jesus. So these two "persons" have always existed and together make up what should correctly by called "God". The confusion comes from the fact that many people use the word "God" when they are talking about the Father. The Father and Son are separate but are both part of God.

Well, I provided scriptures that show otherwise. I think if we are dealing with scripture, then they outweigh opinions, isn't that so?
Jesus, John, and Paul, all said that Jesus had a beginning. Further, the Bible says, all angels were created.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Well, I provided scriptures that show otherwise. I think if we are dealing with scripture, then they outweigh opinions, isn't that so?
Jesus, John, and Paul, all said that Jesus had a beginning. Further, the Bible says, all angels were created.

So, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. This is the Bible and it shows two "beings" together without a beginning. The Word was made flesh is in the Bible. So the Word became Jesus. The man Jesus had a beginning but that was the same "being" that was the Word and had no beginning. This is all from the Bible and not just opinion.

 

[Ellen Brown]

From what tradition do you want an answer?

Shalom:

I always like to read what the Jews think about these things.

 

[nPeace]

So, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. This is the Bible and it shows two "beings" together without a beginning. The Word was made flesh is in the Bible. So the Word became Jesus. The man Jesus had a beginning but that was the same "being" that was the Word and had no beginning. This is all from the Bible and not just opinion.

Deuteronomy 6:4 American Standard Version (ASV)
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:
You have quoted one scripture which does not disqualify others. God is one, not two or three.

How about I quote this one.
John 8 American Standard Version (ASV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,

So the Devil is part of God, and always existed, from your logic. Correct?