Is there a religion that isn't a Deen?

[LuisDantas]

The whole point of a "Deen," as @Remté is describing it, is that the majority religion of your country gets mixed with your economics and politics.

And while I vehemently oppose Islaam specifically and monotheism-influenced politics in general - mainly because it is no good to attempt to extrapolate God-concepts from their proper very personal scope to a mass scale, as a matter of fact - I also acknowledge that it is naive to expect religious convictions to have no discernible effect on one's economy and politics.

Religion is about values and motivations. What good would it be if it did not have perceptible effect on the ways in which we interact with the world?

 

[Remté]

No. I just take religion seriously and have a measure of respect towards theism despite not having much of a personal interest in it.

Edited to add: oh, wait, you meant to ask about the statistics of leavers of Islaam, did you not?

It is such a well consolidated understanding to me that I failed to realize that one might want to ask about that. Sorry.

In any case, reliable statistics are difficult to find, mainly because it is dangerous for ex-Muslims to be overt about their so-called apostasy.

Then I think your claim is futile.

 

[LuisDantas]

Then I think your claim is futile.

Really? Because I honestly have no idea of why you even say so.

 

[Remté]

Really? Because I honestly have no idea of why you even say so.

Because you don't know,but you speak as if you do. This might mislead other people.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because you don't know,but you speak as if you do. This might mislead other people.

As a wiser man than me said: if that is what you take from what I said, sure.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

If you create a new religion, you naturally need to tell people what's wrong with the old one, and how they should think and behave after they've adopted the new one. All non-original religions — Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc — do this. The extent to which they create an all-embracing law varies, but they all try to control both believers and non-believers. e.g.
> all the restrictions in Islamic countries
> the attempts by Christians to ban abortion and homosexuality
> the various restrictive laws in Israel, and the often even more restrictive customs.

The gods, however are not policemen, and they generally leave us to discover how best to live with our neighbours and to face the consequences when we fail. If you want to avoid a deen, go back to the original religion and be a polytheist!

 

[Quintessence]

@Remté - could you tell us a bit more about the concept of Deen? This sounds very interesting to me and I'd like to learn a bit more.

 

[sayak83]

How much does Hinduism offer legal/political prescriptions for organising society?

There are hundreds of books of that sort.

 

[sun rise]

The claim that Islam is a deen today leads inevitably to justifying ISIS and other groups that want to force humanity back to the culture as it existed in ~700AD. It is retrogressive and not progressive.

Because, sooner or later, an absolute rule based on the past comes into conflict with humanity's progress and people are forced to choose between life, change, and the stagnation of death, forcing no change.

 

[sealchan]

"Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

Deen vs Religion | Islamic Studies, CSS Notes, Topic-3

Probably any religion over 100 years old is woefully inadequate to present specific and comprehensive guidance to a modern person's life.

 

[osgart]

I have a code of life for myself. I would judge any code of life by its results from its causes and effects. Aforehand you can see what the fruitions of certain codes of life will bring without living them. And if you have no full heart for the code chances are you wont able live it. And without the freedom to accept or reject a code, what good is it to have one? Forced compliance is an abuse of human rights!, and probably the reason for many wars.

Rules of law are codes of life though arent they! What would all sane people agree on to be governed by. And there will always be dissent from people who dont agree on everything. The only thing i can say is that which causes harm is not to be tolerated. And then the question becomes what constitutes harm? And i would say anything against the total will of somebody whereas all people have equal rights and equal prohibitive measures.
Whatever people are totally willful for they are fully responsible for, and never have authority to force another to comply nor undergo any experience none desired.

With the case of a parent and child, does the parent have the right to enforce rules, chastise, and discipline their children? Within reason, and law, yes has to be the answer, even if none desired, a child has to obey lawful rules, and disciplines that are not harmful.

Codes of life are common to all really, religious, or non religious. I dont see that spanking a child is harmful neither.

 

[Neuropteron]

"Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

Deen vs Religion | Islamic Studies, CSS Notes, Topic-3

It is noteworthy that the son of God stated:" I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (Joh 14;Heb 10:19).

Those who became followers of Christ were spoken of as belonging to "The Way" that is, they adhered to a way or manner of life that centered around faith in Christ and followed his example to the best of their ability.

So my answer to your question is, being a true Christian cover all aspects of life.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

Well, Buddhism, Jainism and certain variations of Hinduism are not 'deens', since they do not believe in existence of any Supreme God, though they are particular about relations between humans and their fellow beings.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

"Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

Deen vs Religion | Islamic Studies, CSS Notes, Topic-3

Very few religions are Deens, actually. Wiccas aren't. Christians aren't (the average Christian has church rules but there isn't a sense since the Protestant Reform that someone will come to your house and hunt you down if you skip church). Shintos stopped after World War II. Typically, only if you join a Buddhist or Christian monastery do you have an all-consuming lifestyle. Most of these are committed members only.

Whereas Muslims are Deen because they are a political group as well as being ostensibly about religion.

Aupman, the presence of deity is not the main part of its definition. It's whether your religion refers to your personal principles (religion) or whether it's kinda a law for everyone.

 

[wellwisher]

"Islam is not only a religion but also a Deen, which means a complete code of life. Religion deals man's relation with God whereas Deen deals with both with man's relation with God and his fellow beings. Religion deals with private affairs of life whereas Deen covers all aspect of life, individual as well as collective....."

Deen vs Religion | Islamic Studies, CSS Notes, Topic-3

In my experience, humans have natural human instincts, as well as personality/behavioral firmware, which defines us as a species; human nature. These are common to all humans; collective human propensities. We all can fall in love no matter your culture or beliefs. This is part of our common human nature.

Humans are also free moral agents who have will power and can make choices. All major religions are designed to help humans maintain contact with our natural human instincts and propensities, common to all. They differ, by the wild card, which is how to use will power and choice.

The paradox of willower and choice, is it can be used to engage in natural as well as unnatural human behavior. In terms of natural behavior, it can be used to laterally diversify natural instinct and behavior. As an example of this is eating. We have a natural instinct to eat. Humans are omnivores, which means we can eat endless varieties of food, that are all good for the body without harming this instinct.

However, since this lateral change for new foods is connected to choice, some foods, in some religions, may be taboo. This is to place limits on choice, so changing natural instinct does deviate too far. The Koala Bear eats Eucalyptus leaves. He can be made to eat, based on a science diet, without harming his body or instinct to eat. However, this could conflict and change other behavior such as tree climbing. There is caution in some religions to various willpower and choices, but the same precautions are not common in all religions.

If you look at abortion, this is not part of natural human instinct. It is called a women's right to choose. Nobody calls this natural instinct. It is connected to willpower and choice, apart from human nature. This choice may not be an option in many religions, since this departs away from human nature and human instinct. It is not a lateral choice. It tries to prune a natural branch and add a dried stick.

The Deen question is connected to main religions being the keepers of human instincts and collective human propensities. These things apply to all, with differences appearing in terms of how to integrate choice and will power, since that too comes from God. Some are more strict.