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Book of Revelation, what is it? Good, or bad? [Vote

Book of Revelation, good or bad?


  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .

sooda

Veteran Member

Yeah.. You may have been influenced by Late Great Planet and those kinds of writings that put it all in the future and claim Russia is Gog and Magog or some other such nonsense. Revelation tells us there is NO temple..

The earth isn't going to be destroyed.. That way of life (Temple Judaism) was destroyed. Read the Sermon on the Mount in the context of non-violent resistance to the Roman Occupation. What is remarkable is that its such a revolutionary idea.. to shame your enemy.

Isaiah's servants song is written in the past tense. Its all about Israel as the suffering servant of God NOT Jesus. Christians have taken those verses and changed the meaning .. Jews borrowed from other cultures and religions too so that's hardly novel.

Jesus was NOT despised of men. By all accounts people followed him and loved him with the exception of some Pharisees.

Darby and Scofield did a lot of damage.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yeah.. You may have been influenced by Late Great Planet and those kinds of writings that put it all in the future and claim Russia is Gog and Magog or some other such nonsense. Revelation tells us there is NO temple..
The earth isn't going to be destroyed.. That way of life (Temple Judaism) was destroyed. Read the Sermon on the Mount in the context of non-violent resistance to the Roman Occupation. What is remarkable is that its such a revolutionary idea.. to shame your enemy.
Isaiah's servants song is written in the past tense. Its all about Israel as the suffering servant of God NOT Jesus. Christians have taken those verses and changed the meaning .. Jews borrowed from other cultures and religions too so that's hardly novel.
Jesus was NOT despised of men. By all accounts people followed him and loved him with the exception of some Pharisees.
Darby and Scofield did a lot of damage.

I agree, Earth will Not be destroyed, and as Ecclesiastes 1:4 B says the Earth abides forever.
So, what will be destroyed are wicked people as per Psalms 92:7 says.
I think we need to keep in mind Jesus' words found at Matthew 10:22 that his followers would be hated.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Right so here is the decision: so far you've argued with me each time, and told the person with the New Name of Christ he is wrong...
So we've then got to decide can we educate mankind, if people stand against us, when we're trying to lead them in the right direction?
Psalms 46:6-8 says he melts the reality as prophesied elsewhere, and then after we have peace in an age of enlightenment.
In my opinion. :innocent:

I find Jesus said his figurative ' sheep would hear his voice ', so biblical truth has the ring of truth about it for them.
In other words, Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is Not a conversion work, but a warning or a proclaiming about God's kingdom good news of Daniel 2:44.

To add: Psalms 46:9 lets us know God will stop wars from one end of the earth to the other end of Earth.
Then, yes, after that then there will be the coming millennial age of enlightenment for earth's nations.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Yeah.. You may have been influenced by Late Great Planet and those kinds of writings that put it all in the future and claim Russia is Gog and Magog or some other such nonsense. Revelation tells us there is NO temple..

The earth isn't going to be destroyed.. That way of life (Temple Judaism) was destroyed. Read the Sermon on the Mount in the context of non-violent resistance to the Roman Occupation. What is remarkable is that its such a revolutionary idea.. to shame your enemy.

Isaiah's servants song is written in the past tense. Its all about Israel as the suffering servant of God NOT Jesus. Christians have taken those verses and changed the meaning .. Jews borrowed from other cultures and religions too so that's hardly novel.

Jesus was NOT despised of men. By all accounts people followed him and loved him with the exception of some Pharisees.

Darby and Scofield did a lot of damage.

That's a range of subjects. Prophecy is actually directly said to be in future tense, in the Bible, both OT, and NT.

I'm familiar with various non'literal ideas.

Other than that, just because you don't agree with some interpretations, does not make your theories correct.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Revelation 3:12

This is strange wording, unless it means, 'the god, me'. As opposed to the english translation, 'the g-d of me'.

The reason why it is strange, in the English, is because, this is presumsbly, Jesus talking?

Now, some would interpret this as Jesus referring to his Abba, or such, all those arguments aside, because in some verses, John 10:18
This actually reads, more like Jesus is referring to Himself, as the father , the Shepherd, in other words our father. Now, aside from those arguments,
• is the spirit telling the author, since the author is writing this, the authors god
• Is Jesus saying, 'the god, me'.
• is the spirit talking, not Jesus, and therefore as an angel, saying, 'the god of me'.

So, in the text, Jesus never says 'the god of me', that is quite strange even if said, because why, would Jesus say that, the god being of more than Jesus, even if He did say that. Highly unlikely.
If the author meant it that way, Jesus saying that, again, is strange non'christian phrasing. Cross language wise, if the author is using Hebrew, still strange, by context, if not contradictory, considering they usually seem to use the word Elohim, in a Christian context.
So, is this a judaism mysticism idea in the text.
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I find Jesus said his figurative ' sheep would hear his voice '
Gospel of John is made up.
after that then there will be the coming millennial age of enlightenment for earth's nations.
Unfortunately it is prophesied only those who qualify are worthy; so most people who follow John, Paul & Simon the stone (petros) have been already misled.

Yeshua (salvation) came to set a Snare (Isaiah 8, Isaiah 28, Zechariah 5) to catch out all the wicked; most have already failed.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revelation 3:12

This is strange wording, unless it means, 'the god, me'. As opposed to the english translation, 'the g-d of me'.

John 10:18
This actually reads, more like Jesus is referring to Himself, as the father ,

This stands to reason, as 'Christ' the 'Son' is also the Baha'u'llah the Father'. The 'Glory of God', no less.

If the Son does not go, the Father can not come.

It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
This is strange wording, unless it means, 'the god, me'.
It isn't strange... Yeshua's Elohim (Salvation as a Divine Being) is a manifestation from El Elyon (God Most High).

Yahavah (Lord of Creation) became Yehoshua (Lord who Saves) - Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 12:2, Isaiah 52:10-15.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It isn't strange... Yeshua's Elohim (Salvation as a Divine Being) is a manifestation from El Elyon (God Most High).

Yahavah (Lord of Creation) became Yehoshua (Lord who Saves) - Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 12:2, Isaiah 52:10-15.

In my opinion. :innocent:
In the English, you don't find, 'the g-d of me', to be strange?

That is what I'm saying is strange.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
If the Son does not go, the Father can not come.
The father is like a CPU (EL Elyon) that manifests reality at a quantum level; the Divine Beings (Elohim) interact like applications, manifest by the CPU to perform tasks - that is why they're named specifically in the texts.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
This stands to reason, as 'Christ' the 'Son' is also the Baha'u'llah the Father'. The 'Glory of God', no less.

If the Son does not go, the Father can not come.

It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony
the Epistles for example, we read 'G- d our father, Lord Jesus Christ.'
Again, in the english, interpreted as 'g-d the father [of the Lord Jesus Christ'. [[Generally, there are some variations, however the interpretation is the same.
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
In the English, you don't find, 'the g-d of me', to be strange?
Scholars who've studied the Greek in depth say that Revelation is poor in grammar, so take that into account; yet the name has to interlink globally to be the many crowns, and be the name that fits all the criteria...

Thus the name is both God's name & the name of Christ.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
John 10:17
Has been "interpreted". Obviously, because we do interpret inferences to persons, and such, interpretation of meaning, [different languages, is somewhat necessary, since the belief, or more than one belief, is connected to the text. By my estimation, there are three ways of reading this

Jesus is referring to Himself, as the father, here, [our father

Jesus is saying that He is able to do this, because His father loves Him

The way it has been interpreted, in other words, his father loves Him, because He does this, [the crucifixion, and resurrection.

Now, considering the other verses, and the context of them, Jesus is calling Himself a Shepherd, [that is like, He is saying He is our father, and, the fact that Jesus does this, of His own accord, now, which interpretation, makes the most sense, here.

This is from another duscussion, that I started, about this type of interpretation, though, from the book of John.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus says He is the father, as I read it, John 10:17, [again interpreted in the English, however there is another interpretation besides those. The english interpretation is the least likely, as I read it.
And, the Epistles for example, we read 'G- d our father, Lord Jesus Christ.'
Again, in the english, interpreted as 'g-d the father [of the Lord Jesus Christ'. [[Generally, there are some variations, however the interpretation is the same.

Scholars who've studied the Greek in depth say that Revelation is poor in grammar, so take that into account; yet the name has to interlink globally to be the many crowns, and be the name that fits all the criteria...

Thus the name is both God's name & the name of Christ.

In my opinion. :innocent:

This all fits with what Baha'u'llah has revealled

Baha'u'llah means the 'Glory of God' or 'Glory of the Lord'. This name is all of Gods Messengers, all have revealed this Name on its many forms, in the Message they were chosen to gift humanity.

It is known as the 'Greatest Name'.

Regards Tony
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
This all fits with what Baha'u'llah has revealled
Unfortunately it does not fit exegetically, Baha'u'llah has not fulfilled Revelation 3:9-12, as that being has to fight with the Synagogue of Satan who claim to be Jews yet are not...

The person should be aware of the deception/temptation (G3986) on the whole world, and be aware of what the real Gospel is.

Baha'u'llah did not know John is made up; whereas we've (Heaven informed me) known the "I Am" statements were false, and the New Testament corrupt since 5 years old...

Which is prophesied in all 3 Synoptic Gospels that the "I Am" statements are false, and will deceive many (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
When I first learned of prophesies, I assumed it represented a future set of collective external events, where the world; humanity, goes into turmoil, leading to redemption. This is what is taught by nearly everyone. Upon building and completing the puzzle, this collective orientation was reinforced. This misunderstanding and the final completed puzzle, induced a mystical psychosis. I began to feel a lot of pressure. It became a very desparate time, with so much to do and so little time. This caused strong firmware to become active.

It turned out, the induction by the puzzle, was not about a collective event, but was really a private internal drama, where all the characters in the play were part of me, and not outside of me. This was a critical realization, that came almost a year later, and led to healing, instead of me going over the edge through unconscious projection from the mystical psychosis that was no yet clear to me.

This following was more than likely a coincidence. When I had completed the puzzle and was starting the mystical psychosis, David Koresh, who led a religious cult in the 1980's, appeared to have induced the same dynamics in himself. I could see all the parallels.The difference was he did not jump off the train at the correct time; assume internal drama. He ended up dying in a fire. His choice helped me make my choice.

The difficulty at this crossroads; go external projection to internal , was that the external fantasy induction made me feel powerful; ego. The alternative, or internal drama path, meant sacrificing the ego and my perception of strength and control. The new alternative placed me at a severe disadvantage. This choice led to the worse of times, as the dark side began to differentiate from my personality. My self righteous rage splits into the weak me; powerless, and a distinct projected darkness, that is now separate from me. If you get to this point, choose wisely and not based on insecurity.

Another thing that helped me, was I did not try to be a charismatic leader using the personality firmware enhancements, to mold others, via the charisma of the unconscious induction.Luckily for me, my environment was not conducive to this. Rather I saw myself as a writer doing this privately. The problem with doing this from a leadership role, is it may start out fine, but when you reach the cross roads, the conditioned external reinforcement and feedback, that you have groomed in others, will make it harder to make the correct choice. This appeared to happen to Koresh. It was hard to give up his externally induced inflated ego, due to the expectations he created in his followers.

To give one an idea of how any person, can be all the characters; it has to do with internal firmware which span the range of human nature. Men are composed of half genes from the mother and half from the father. Men have both male and female firmware at birth. Men have a female side, albeit, these are less conscious and developed in men. The White Horseman is male, while the symbolic white lion, which symbolized wisdom, is female. The Divine Woman is part of the female side of the white horseman; psychic pregnancy. He is wise and within his inner wisdom was the potential for an inner self update; her child. The child will become the white horseman.

If you merge with the drama; external, the good and evil firmware blend into composites which are hard to differentiate; self righteous rage. If you choose to separate the ego, the firmware start to differentiate and take sides, with you vulnerable; birth pains. The child is caught up to God and to his throne is symbolic of a die cast for the future. This future potential of the child is the Whitehorse man. It amounts to a firmware induction from the inner self that eventually turns the tide, but first others thing need to happen.

The four horseman symbolize four cycles of the psychodrama, with the firmware within, changing and evolving during each cycle. When I completed the puzzle, I ended up with what appeared to be a large batch of spare parts that did not fit into the story. Later these were understood to be the introduction, that sets the stage, that I called the Gospel of Freedom.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
PART 1



THE GOSPEL OF FREEDOM



Christ and Division

Nature of the Holy Spirit

Law and the Tongue

Ungodliness and Love of the World

The Precepts of Men

Nature of Law and Sin

Christ as High Priest

Delivery from Sin

Freedom from the Yoke of Law

The Curse of Being Under Law

Love and Edification


THE HOLY ANOINTING

Faith vs. law

The old and new self

The holy calling

The personality of the child

Covered sins

Strengthen faith


THE ARROGANCE OF SOCIETY

Doctrines of men

Israel and Judah

Mockers and Tempters

The change
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
REVELATIONS OF THE LATTER DAYS



Part 1 The Servant



-The Little Book

-Divine Woman

-The White Horseman

-The Early Servant

-The Lord's Sacrifice

-Warnings

-Fast of Righteousness

-The Servant will gather the Children

-The Covenant

-Cleanse and Heal

-Gather

-Build Jerusalem

-Build Children

-Cultivate


Part 2 The Lord our Righteousness


-The Red Horseman and the Sword

-Nations will gather

-The Messenger

-The 2 Anointed Ones

-The Flying Scroll

-Patrol of the earth

-Fountain for sin and impurity

-The Sensual one

-There is order in the world

-David

-A renowned planting place

-Elijah

-The Peg

-Red Dragon and the Guilt Sacrifice


Part 3 Transgression and the Antichrist


-The Transgression

-The Ram

-The Goat

-The four kingdoms

-The beast of the sea

-The fourth beast

-Antichrist

-The beast of the earth

-Wickedness

-The Abomination of Desolation


-Without sacrifice

~Locust from the pit

-The fall of Babylon

-The Black Horseman

-War with the Saints

-The first fruits

-The Seven Plagues


Part 4 The Wrath of the Lord


-The great earthquake

-Pour out Spirit

-Gather nations

-Christ in a cloud

-The death of the Antichrist

-Fourth Horseman

-Gather Saints

-The Final Battle

-Punish the proud


Part 1 The 1000 Year Reign and Forever


-Reign of Christ

-Marriage of the Lamb

-The First Resurrection

-After tribulation

-The mountain of the Lord

-Rejoicing

-Gog and Magog

-The White Throne Judgement

-The River and the Tree of Life
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
By 90 AD the tribulation was in the past. It ended when Masada fell.

Preterism is untrue. There is a persecution of Diocletian prophesied in Revelation that happened after 90 AD! Satan did not get cast to the Earth or bound 1,000 years and the Antichrist did not sit in the Third Temple (the 2nd destroyed in 66 AD) making an abomination before 90 AD!
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Preterism is untrue. There is a persecution of Diocletian prophesied in Revelation that happened after 90 AD! Satan did not get cast to the Earth or bound 1,000 years and the Antichrist did not sit in the Third Temple (the 2nd destroyed in 66 AD) making an abomination before 90 AD!

There probably won't be any third temple. When they tried to build on it was destroyed by fire and earthquake.

Jesus said to avoid the tribulation his followers should flee to the mountains .. They did.. Was Jesus lying?

Some people believe that the abomination of desolation was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes interrupted the temple sacrifices between 168 B.C. and 165 B.C. The abomination they point to is the pig Antiochus had offered on the altar in the temple complex.

Others think the abomination did come in Roman form in AD 70. The Roman armies were always an abomination because they carried with them idolatrous images of the emperor, whom they worshiped. And those armies brought desolation because their commander leveled the city and entered the holy of holies, defiling it.
 
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