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Journey of the Soul and idea of physical resurrection

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
God guides each of us from within, as God knows our hearts.

You may see yourself as God and your own guide.

Are you speaking for atheists as well with the 'us'? Or is it just Baha'i?

I don't see myself as God in the sense you're suggesting. That's a false egotistical concept. We're all divine, and I believe man has a lot of inherent wisdom, and if trained, can access it, but there is also a lot of common sense. In my view if you have to go to a book to see what it says about committing murder or loving humanity, including atheists and homosexuals, then you're not much of an independent thinker. That stuff is common sense to me.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I see no importance on the flesh stressed anywhere in the bible.

Except that God went to a lot of trouble to create a material universe in order to place material creatures, dependent upon material things to sustain their lives. Interestingly, reading Genesis you will see that the "tree of life" had properties to ensure that humans never died......so I see great importance placed on the flesh right there. Earth was meant to be man's permanent home.

I see Jesus might have done some miraculous healings of the flesh, to which he placed no importance, as we can note that he told them to tell no one.

'Telling no one' was only applicable on occasion (for reasons Jesus does not disclose) because his miracles were almost always very public events. People brought all their sick ones when they heard that Jesus was coming.....great crowds of them, hoping for just his shadow falling on them might facilitate a healing. Or in the case of one woman, just touching the fringe of his garment healed her instantly.

Jesus also raised the dead......if they had gone to a better place, then how was he doing them any favors?

All of the miracles performed in the first century were a foretaste of what is to come under the rule of God's Kingdom, soon to replace all corrupt human rulership earth-wide. So life in the flesh is what God first purposed. Earth was never designed to be a training ground for heaven.....God already had a large spiritual family there.....none of them are former humans.

We have been given the bounty to live in an age of science, where science is our miracle.

Science is a marvelous realm when it deals with the realities that it claims to support it.
But science in the hands of corrupt men had led to this earth being taken to the brink of irreversible damage.
If science was such a miracle, then why are the benefits always outweighed by the detriment to the environment and the other creatures whose habitats are being destroyed by human greed.

I'm sorry but I do not share you love of that kind of science.

I see the greatest miracles are always the Spiritual, a change of heart and mind in accepting God and His Messengers.

Very true....but we are warned about false "Christs" and "false prophets". They have to prove themselves by how they conduct the business left to them by Jesus to carry out according to his instructions.

Cutting God out of his own creation is not something I could ever do, no matter how feasible science makes the accidental appearance of everything sound. I see his creative genius everywhere and I praise its designer every day. Science says its all just a gigantic fluke....brought about by random, undirected chance.....if that is the case, then the same statistics applied in human understanding.....are revealed in this video



...who do we believe? Scientists cannot even agree with each other......
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
How do we know it was physical resurrection? Maybe it is a symbolic story, with many spiritual meanings in a figurative language.
Almost missed this..sorry.

These were real people, who Jesus interacted with, especially Martha Mary and Lazarus. Lazarus’ Resurrection, recorded in John 11, has further repercussions addressed in John 12.

They were real events.

Now, Jesus’ teachings included figurative language, but His actions, ie., miracles, were literal.

The Bible relates real history, ie., actions, of people and groups.

Over time, archaeology usually reinforces the Bible’s historical details.

Sir Frederic Kenyon, a former Director of the British Museum, was a staunch supporter of Biblical accuracy regarding people and places.

Here’s a lengthy article supporting the veracity of the Holy Scriptures:

http://www.2001translation.com/Authenticity.htm
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Are you speaking for atheists as well with the 'us'? Or is it just Baha'i?

I don't see myself as God in the sense you're suggesting. That's a false egotistical concept. We're all divine, and I believe man has a lot of inherent wisdom, and if trained, can access it, but there is also a lot of common sense. In my view if you have to go to a book to see what it says about committing murder or loving humanity, including atheists and homosexuals, then you're not much of an independent thinker. That stuff is common sense to me.

My view is God guides all people even if they are not aware that is so. After all, we are guided to only to find God in all people, to look for the light.

I agree with your thoughts, as we have discussed before, we see all the potential wisdom is in us and education can bring it out.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Except that God went to a lot of trouble to create a material universe in order to place material creatures, dependent upon material things to sustain their lives. Interestingly, reading Genesis you will see that the "tree of life" had properties to ensure that humans never died......so I see great importance placed on the flesh right there. Earth was meant to be man's permanent home.

This is the matrix of our spiritual life, this is where we grow our spiritual limbs. Perfect in design.

Regards Tony
 

Remté

Active Member
These are some of the verses of Quran, which says, Quran Laws are useful only till the Manifestation of the Qaim. The traditions are compatible with Quran, and are parallel, so, based on sayings of the Prophet and His sons, are authentic Hadithes.

These Prophecies are regarding the abrogation of Quranic Laws, and Revelation of a New Book, and New way of Life:

"The Day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good through his Faith." (6:158). It is recorded in Bihar, that Imam Ali and Imam Sadiq said this verse denotes the advent of the awaited Qaim from us.



In another words, according to that verse, after Rise of Qaim, if someone had not believed in Quran before, but begins to believe in Quran after rise of Qaim, His belief will not do any good anymore, because, at that time, believing in Qaim, and His New Book will Profit him.

The Quranic evidence of abrogation of Quranic Laws is in surrah Al-Hajj:

“Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


Therefore according to the verse, the Quranic Rites are beneficial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven.
The term Ancient House in Islamic traditions is described as a heavenly Kabba, a place from where Quran was revealed to mankind. Thus, according to the above verse, after a certain time, these Quranic Laws go up again to the ancient house (meaning God will take then back, as no benefit in them anymore).


, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

“He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5



And the evidence of abrogation of Quran and coming of a new Book are in these Traditions recorded in Bihar and Al-Kafi:

Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: “When the Qaim rises, he will come with a new commandment from Allah, just as the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) summoned men to a new set of commandments at the beginning of Islam.”



And the Quranic evidence that Qaim comes with a Book of God is in Surrah Al-Isra, verse 71:

“On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam; and he whose Book is given in his right hand shall read it, nor shall they be wronged a straw.” 17:71


And in Al-kafi, ‘Abdallah ibn Sinan narrated, "I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of , ‘On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam . . ." (17:71) The Imam (a.s.) said, "It refers to the Imam who is with them and he is Qa’im of the people of that time."


In Al-kafi it is narrated that Imam MuhammadBaqir (a.s.) said: “... they will disagree in the Book that will be with the Qaim, who will bring it to them, so much so that a large number of people will deny him.”

(Meaning people do not agree to accept the new Book)!!.


And in Bihar in another Hadith, Imam said, “Qaim rises with a new Cause, a new Book, new Judgement which is sever on Arabs.”

The Quranic evidence of the Book being severe on Arabs is in Surrah AlQamar:

"The Day the caller calls to an undesirable event" 56:6
It is recorded this verse is regarding, Imam Mahdi, who calls people to that which they dislike and deny.
Your interpretation of those verses is absurd. The Qaim you refer to is not in the Quran because it's a fable made to please your imagination.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarity. Yes getting old sucks :) work becomes many pains.

You appear to have the curse given to Adam for breaking God's Commandment. "Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of our life...by the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground...and to dust you shall return" (Genesis 3:17-19). On the other hand work is a blessing (Ecclesiastes 3:12-13) The blessing comes by keeping God's commandments (Deuteronomy 11:13-23) In Egypt, Israel pumped water with their feet, in the promised land, the land was watered from heaven.

I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. That each of them may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all their toil—this is the gift of God.
Ecclesiastes 3:12-13
LOL.....and what makes sense to you is your own indoctrination. Who is your teacher? You? Who do you consult to ascertain the correctness of your beliefs? Do you have those who are accountable for your spiritual welfare in the same way as the first Christians were? They had teachers and mentors who guided them on "The Way" set by Jesus .

There is a "first resurrection" and logically another to follow as Jesus said. Those raised to life in the spirit are those who will rule with Christ in heaven. They number 144,000.....all spiritual Israelites. This happens first in time so that redeemed mankind will have a ruling authority to guide and direct them straight away.

There is a second group seen before God's throne.... those who attribute their salvation to God and the Lamb and are said to "come out of the great tribulation" which occurs on earth. (Revelation 7:9-10;13-14) So there will be survivors of the great tribulation, just as Noah survived the end of that wicked world.
These will then be joined by those whom Jesus calls from their tombs. (John 5:28-29) They will have a thousand years to be educated in God's ways before the final judgment. What they do during that 1,000 years forms the basis for their judgment because at death, one is acquitted from former sins. (Romans 6:7; 23)

This is what makes sense to me.

What makes sense to you has no backing from either the Law and the prophets, nor the testimony of Yeshua. Yeshua's teaching was that you have only "one" teacher, and that would be the "anointing" of the Holy Spirit, and that there would be only one leader, and that would be the testimony of Yeshua/Christ, without the leaven/hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Those who were to be in the first resurrection were already alive in Spirit, and were called the "righteous", the "wicked", the lawless, were considered among the walking dead. The alive in Spirit, died, and entered into their rest (Daniel 12:13). As for those who came out of the "great tribulation" they were mostly those "who are left of the nations", survivors (Zechariah 14:16), who will toe the line or are be "smitten" by a "plague" (Zechariah 14:19). The 144,000 will be in the great tribulation, but will bear the "seal of God" and be protected from the "locusts" (Revelation 7:3). To seek protection from the Lamb, you will have to hide under rocks (Revelation 6:16).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
This is the matrix of our spiritual life, this is where we grow our spiritual limbs. Perfect in design.

Regards Tony

In general, the physical is a reflection of the Spiritual. As for your decaying body, I would dare say, it is a reflection of your spiritual life. Unless you are Dorian Grey, with your own portrait stored in the attic.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Your interpretation of those verses is absurd. The Qaim you refer to is not in the Quran because it's a fable made to please your imagination.
It is not my interpretation. I am not well-grounded in knowledge to interpret the Word of God. It is interpretation by Imam Ali, Sadiq, and Bagher, who according to Quran and traditions are the Well-grounded in knowledge.
Do you claim you or your scholars are Well-grounded in knowledge?! Show me where Allah in Quran says you or your scholars are well-grounded
In knowledge!
I was hoping you can actually have a logical discussion about them, rather than just saying they are wrong interpretations! So, we can agree to disagree, and leave it as that!
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You appear to have the curse given to Adam for breaking God's Commandment. "Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of our life...by the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground...and to dust you shall return" (Genesis 3:17-19). On the other hand work is a blessing (Ecclesiastes 3:12-13) The blessing comes by keeping God's commandments (Deuteronomy 11:13-23) In Egypt, Israel pumped water with their feet, in the promised land, the land was watered from heaven.

Ha ha. I thank Adam for allowing me to know what is good and evil.

All good is from God, all evil is from our own selves.

This life is not a curse, it is our greatest blessing, if we so choose.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In general, the physical is a reflection of the Spiritual. As for your decaying body, I would dare say, it is a reflection of your spiritual life. Unless you are Dorian Grey, with your own portrait stored in the attic.

You are free to say and think anything you wish to.

Luckily, in the end we all get to rely upon God's Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness.

Regards Tony
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You are free to say and think anything you wish to.

Luckily, in the end we all get to rely upon God's Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness.

Regards Tony

The ability to say and think anything you wish, is somewhat limited to where a person lives. In the end, one is held responsible for what they say, whether it is true or a lie. As for "in the end", one is judged on what they say, and their deeds (Revelation 20:12-13) & (Matthew 12:37)

New American Standard Bible Matthew 12:37
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Ha ha. I thank Adam for allowing me to know what is good and evil.

All good is from God, all evil is from our own selves.

This life is not a curse, it is our greatest blessing, if we so choose.

Regards Tony

You can thank your father, the serpent, for tricking Eve into eating of the tree of Good and Evil, and becoming a god in your own eyes As your father Paul says in Romans 7:18, "nothing good indwells in me", which also apparently falls upon his sons. You appear to be mixing up the life of the walking dead, with the living. As the "LORD" says, it is a curse for those who do not keep the commandments (Deuteronomy 11:27-28). Apparently by the description of yourself, I am thinking a "curse", would be a better description than a blessing. But, to each his own.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can thank your father, the serpent, for tricking Eve into eating of the tree of Good and Evil, and becoming a god in your own eyes As your father Paul says in Romans 7:18, "nothing good indwells in me", which also apparently falls upon his sons. You appear to be mixing up the life of the walking dead, with the living. As the "LORD" says, it is a curse for those who do not keep the commandments (Deuteronomy 11:27-28). Apparently by the description of yourself, I am thinking a "curse", would be a better description than a blessing. But, to each his own.

My Father was in the Air Force, I am sure you have not met or heard of him, thus you seem confused?

Regards Tony
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
My Father was in the Air Force, I am sure you have not met or heard of him, thus you seem confused?

Regards Tony

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.…
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Most Holy Books teaches human has a soul. The Books also talk about a future event, when there will be resurrection of the dead.

For those who believe in these Books, that human has a soul, which lives on after the death of body, and eventually on the day of judgment comes to the physically resurrected body:
How does this idea logially make sense to you?
Why would God resurrect the body physically and return the soul to it, if the soul by itself can just lives on?

I believe God values the human experience and will provide a time period for those who wish to be free of sin. Those who are dead when He does that will need to return to a body.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Where in Scripture says, they will give 72 virgins for blowing up a building?

I believe according to the context the virgins are present as an end time event not Heaven and only if the person is defending Islam which in truth is not what terrorists are doing.
 
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