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Journey of the Soul and idea of physical resurrection

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
What is the figurative, spiritual, and symbolic meaning of 72 virgins for someone who blows up a building full of people, and takes his own life in the process? Are they going to be disappointed when they find their prize is a handful of "symbolic meaning"? Is there an appeals process for these apparently ill informed dead warriors? Do they get a do over?
Where in Scripture says, they will give 72 virgins for blowing up a building?
 

Remté

Active Member
According to Quran and traditions, when Qaim comes, He will bring a new guidance from God. New guidance, with new Book, new religious Laws, because at that time, there is no benefit in following Sharia of Quran, or believing in it, rather a new Book comes with Qaim.
Not according to the Quran and according to weak traditions based on nothing.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
For the majority of mankind, the resurrection will be physical....back to this earth where God put us in the first place.

This is what makes perfect sense to me after many years of Bible study.

What makes sense to you is the indoctrination of the JW church. There will be two resurrections, one for those who didn't worship the beast, and have the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, who will be raised from the dead to reign for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4) and the second resurrection at the end of the millennium, for the "great white throne" judgment (Revelation 20:12) where the grave will give up the dead and they will be judged for their "deeds".(Revelation 20:13). "Those who dwell on the earth", "Christians in particular, already have the "mark of the beast", and will only partake in the judgment resurrection. (Revelation 13:14). Those with the "mark of the beast" will also drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10) at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:40-41), the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Did Christ have a physical body before marry was pregnant with Him? Does God the Father have a physical body? If yes, where in scriptures? If no, then why not, if having physical body is required to be alive and important?

Apparently the LORD has his own angel, who appeared to Moses, spoke to Hagar, and apparently sat down and had dinner with Abraham.

Genesis 16:7-16 NIV The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?” “I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

Zechariah 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing ...
Then he showed me Joshua/Yeshua the high priest standing before the angel of the
LORD
, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him.

Exodus 3:2-6 2There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.

Genesis 18:1Then the LORD appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre in the heat of the day, while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Not according to the Quran and according to weak traditions based on nothing.
These are some of the verses of Quran, which says, Quran Laws are useful only till the Manifestation of the Qaim. The traditions are compatible with Quran, and are parallel, so, based on sayings of the Prophet and His sons, are authentic Hadithes.

These Prophecies are regarding the abrogation of Quranic Laws, and Revelation of a New Book, and New way of Life:

"The Day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good through his Faith." (6:158). It is recorded in Bihar, that Imam Ali and Imam Sadiq said this verse denotes the advent of the awaited Qaim from us.



In another words, according to that verse, after Rise of Qaim, if someone had not believed in Quran before, but begins to believe in Quran after rise of Qaim, His belief will not do any good anymore, because, at that time, believing in Qaim, and His New Book will Profit him.

The Quranic evidence of abrogation of Quranic Laws is in surrah Al-Hajj:

“Indeed, those who reverence the Rites decreed by GOD demonstrate the righteousness of their hearts. In them are benefits to an Appointed Time, then their place is to the ancient House” 22:33


Therefore according to the verse, the Quranic Rites are beneficial until their appointed time, then after that, Religious Laws are Referred to the Ancient House, which according to Recorded Traditions, is in Heaven.
The term Ancient House in Islamic traditions is described as a heavenly Kabba, a place from where Quran was revealed to mankind. Thus, according to the above verse, after a certain time, these Quranic Laws go up again to the ancient house (meaning God will take then back, as no benefit in them anymore).


, and the time of ascension of the Quranic ordinances is in the 32nd Surrah:

“He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.” 32:5



And the evidence of abrogation of Quran and coming of a new Book are in these Traditions recorded in Bihar and Al-Kafi:

Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: “When the Qaim rises, he will come with a new commandment from Allah, just as the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) summoned men to a new set of commandments at the beginning of Islam.”



And the Quranic evidence that Qaim comes with a Book of God is in Surrah Al-Isra, verse 71:

“On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam; and he whose Book is given in his right hand shall read it, nor shall they be wronged a straw.” 17:71


And in Al-kafi, ‘Abdallah ibn Sinan narrated, "I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of , ‘On the Day when We will summon all men by their Imam . . ." (17:71) The Imam (a.s.) said, "It refers to the Imam who is with them and he is Qa’im of the people of that time."


In Al-kafi it is narrated that Imam MuhammadBaqir (a.s.) said: “... they will disagree in the Book that will be with the Qaim, who will bring it to them, so much so that a large number of people will deny him.”

(Meaning people do not agree to accept the new Book)!!.


And in Bihar in another Hadith, Imam said, “Qaim rises with a new Cause, a new Book, new Judgement which is sever on Arabs.”

The Quranic evidence of the Book being severe on Arabs is in Surrah AlQamar:

"The Day the caller calls to an undesirable event" 56:6
It is recorded this verse is regarding, Imam Mahdi, who calls people to that which they dislike and deny.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Ask your Muslim Jihadist, who are looking for 72 real virgins. Someone said it was a translation problem, and they are only getting 72 sweet dates (fruit).
There is no such a verse or even Hadith that of one blows up a building, they will go to heaven. They are not My jihadists. I am not even a Muslim.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Following Mathew 17:11 is Matthew 17:12,"Elijah ready came".

Correct, Jesus confirmed it was John.

No flesh body return of the previous Elijah, a return of the same quality of spirit in John the Baptist made John Elijah in the day of Jeusus.

In the day of Muhammad it was Ali

Elijah always cones first and the Bab also had an Elijah and the Bab was Elijah for Baha'u'llah.

If we wait for a flesh body to return, then one will wait for eternity and find no goal, as those that have previously waited, still do.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For the majority of mankind, the resurrection will be physical....back to this earth where God put us in the first place.

This is what makes perfect sense to me after many years of Bible study.

I see no importance on the flesh stressed anywhere in the bible.

I see Jesus might have done some miraculous healings of the flesh, to which he placed no importance, as we can note that he told them to tell no one.

We have been given the bounty to live in an age of science, where science is our miracle.

I see the greatest miracles are always the Spiritual, a change of heart and mind in accepting God and His Messengers.

Regards Tony
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did Christ have a physical body before marry was pregnant with Him? Does God the Father have a physical body? If yes, where in scriptures? If no, then why not, if having physical body is required to be alive and important?

Just a note Mary :) not marry.

Darn that auto spell check.....!

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You have told us you have no book to follow, that you are not book based.

Are you saying we can we trace your beleif to what was written in a book?

I never said we have no books. What I said was that compared to Abrahamism, Sanatana Dharma has far less emphasis on a book. Much of the knowledge is passed orally, and intuitive knowledge inside oneself plays a major role. I intuit this is a soul with a physical body, one that the soul will dispose of, probably sooner than later. I wish I had a new body.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I never said we have no books. What I said was that compared to Abrahamism, Sanatana Dharma has far less emphasis on a book. Much of the knowledge is passed orally, and intuitive knowledge inside oneself plays a major role. I intuit this is a soul with a physical body, one that the soul will dispose of, probably sooner than later. I wish I had a new body.

Thanks for the clarity. Yes getting old sucks :) work becomes many pains.

I hope you get a rolls royce model body :D

Personally I would see it as the soul is given/attached to this body, which when God gives the soul it lives and when God takes it away, it dies.

I also see we get a new body, I see that new body is not in the physical realm, no physical pain.;)

Stay well and happy, regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks for the clarity. Yes getting old sucks :) work becomes many pains.

I hope you get a rolls royce model body :D

Personally I would see it as the soul is given/attached to this body, which when God gives the soul it lives and when God takes it away, it dies.

I also see we get a new body, I see that new body is not in the physical realm, no physical pain.;)

Stay well and happy, regards Tony

Just a matter of asking, 'Who am I?" for Hindus. Different paradigms.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Did Christ have a physical body before marry was pregnant with Him? Does God the Father have a physical body? If yes, where in scriptures? If no, then why not, if having physical body is required to be alive and important?

Spirit beings have spiritual bodies. Do humans have a way to comprehend immaterial lifeforms? We can try, but there is no test except what those in Bible times experienced. We have their eyewitness testimony.

The Bible says that "God is a spirit" and it also says that angels are spirits. When these spirits came to bring messages to God's human servants, they did so in material form. They obviously have the ability to materialize.

When Jesus was "with" his Father "in the beginning", he too was a spirit. His lifeforce was transferred to the womb of Mary so that the child conceived was 100% human. When he died a human death, he was raised back to life under the power of God's spirit, but not in a body of flesh and blood. For 40 days after his resurrection, Jesus "appeared" to his apostles, sometimes in a body they did not recognize. At times, in order to convince a doubter, he even appeared in a body with the wounds of his execution.

The Bible clearly indicates that life exists in spirit form....mere mortals need a physical earth, air, food and water to keep living. Spirits do not need any of those things in order to be "alive".

Our definition of life is not their definition of life.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just a matter of asking, 'Who am I?" for Hindus. Different paradigms.

I see that is the question we all ask of ourselves. God guides each of us from within, as God knows our hearts. I see that is where all real change comes from.

You may see yourself as God and your own guide. I do not, as I see I must subdue what is not of God and find what is.

I personally see it as different frames of reference to the same Truth and I think we can all change when we look for new frames of references.

Regards Tony
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What makes sense to you is the indoctrination of the JW church. There will be two resurrections, one for those who didn't worship the beast, and have the mark of the beast with two horns like a lamb, who will be raised from the dead to reign for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4) and the second resurrection at the end of the millennium, for the "great white throne" judgment (Revelation 20:12) where the grave will give up the dead and they will be judged for their "deeds".(Revelation 20:13). "Those who dwell on the earth", "Christians in particular, already have the "mark of the beast", and will only partake in the judgment resurrection. (Revelation 13:14). Those with the "mark of the beast" will also drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10) at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:40-41), the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32).

LOL.....and what makes sense to you is your own indoctrination. Who is your teacher? You? Who do you consult to ascertain the correctness of your beliefs? Do you have those who are accountable for your spiritual welfare in the same way as the first Christians were? They had teachers and mentors who guided them on "The Way" set by Jesus .

There is a "first resurrection" and logically another to follow as Jesus said. Those raised to life in the spirit are those who will rule with Christ in heaven. They number 144,000.....all spiritual Israelites. This happens first in time so that redeemed mankind will have a ruling authority to guide and direct them straight away.

There is a second group seen before God's throne.... those who attribute their salvation to God and the Lamb and are said to "come out of the great tribulation" which occurs on earth. (Revelation 7:9-10;13-14) So there will be survivors of the great tribulation, just as Noah survived the end of that wicked world.
These will then be joined by those whom Jesus calls from their tombs. (John 5:28-29) They will have a thousand years to be educated in God's ways before the final judgment. What they do during that 1,000 years forms the basis for their judgment because at death, one is acquitted from former sins. (Romans 6:7; 23)

This is what makes sense to me.
 
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