Why does God need books?

[Tumah]

God sends the archangel Gabriel to speak to a 14 year old child to let her know she will become pregnant and that her son will be special. Hundreds of years later people revere and pray to some statue on a Roman execution instrument.

God sends the archangel Gabriel (again) to talk to an illiterate man named Muhammad. Hundred years later some of the people revere a hair follicle of a deceased prophet and kill in the name of land marks and a cartoon picture.

I think the others can relate.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, because neither of these events happened according to Judaism.
Originally I thought you were saying that there are denominations in Judaism that don't follow Jewish Law so that implies a problem with the Torah. I argued against that point. I'm not sure what your follow up here is or how it relates to that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, because neither of these events happened according to Judaism.

Well I guess there was miscommunication because I thought the parable you were mentioning was in relation to the comment that I made and the fact that you implied other Abrahamic faiths had no relationship I thought you meant other non-Jewish faiths of Abrahamic origin.

Originally I thought you were saying that there are denominations in Judaism that don't follow Jewish Law so that implies a problem with the Torah. I argued against that point. I'm not sure what your follow up here is or how it relates to that.

That was my point. I don't think all Jews follow the same moral code. Indeed if the "light of the world" was true according to Judaism I don't think the Middle East most specifically the so-called "Holy Land" would be the way it is. If you believe all Jews follow the law I'd believe you were a naïve person and quite foolish. Hell, I don't even follow the traffic laws from time to time.

 

[InChrist]

Therefore, Allah has not been invented. Or some other God of the competition... Right?

Ciao

- viole

Numerous imitations or alterations of the true Creator God have been invented. I'm just saying that humans tend to put themselves as the center of the universe and worship themselves above all else, therefore it's not likely they would have come up with the concept of an all powerful personal God as revealed in the biblical scriptures.

 

[Tumah]

Well I guess there was miscommunication because I thought the parable you were mentioning was in relation to the comment that I made and the fact that you implied other Abrahamic faiths had no relationship I thought you meant other non-Jewish faiths of Abrahamic origin.



That was my point. I don't think all Jews follow the same moral code. Indeed if the "light of the world" was true according to Judaism I don't think the Middle East most specifically the so-called "Holy Land" would be the way it is. If you believe all Jews follow the law I'd believe you were a naïve person and quite foolish. Hell, I don't even follow the traffic laws from time to time.

There is definitely a miscommunication here. The OP asked why G-d uses Books as a medium for spreading His word. He argues that it is inefficient and clumsy. My argument is that it has worked just fine for Judaism.
You retorted what I originally thought to be that G-d's method of spreading Judaism hasn't worked well for turning non-Jews, Jewish.
To that I responded that non-Jews are not the intended targets of G-d's Books.
You then explained that you were talking about Jews themselves who do not follow Jewish Law, and this illustrates that these Books are not effective even in reaching their intended targets. You also added a line about other Abrahamic religions.
I retorted that people who do not follow Jewish Law, don't do so because of a problem in the transmission of G-d's Word through the Torah. They do so because they choose not to follow the Law. I then gave an example of the sin of the Golden Calf, where only 40 days prior, we heard G-d command us not to worship idols. I also added that I didn't understand your comment about other Abrahamic religions, as they don't seem to fit the context of our discussions.
Lastly, you continued talking about Christian and Islamic beliefs about their transmission.
Again, I don't understand how this fits the context of our discussion. I am not arguing that Books are an ideal way for religions to transmit their teachings. I have only been arguing for Judaism.
Have we been totally misunderstanding each other this whole time?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There is definitely a miscommunication here. The OP asked why G-d uses Books as a medium for spreading His word. He argues that it is inefficient and clumsy. My argument is that it has worked just fine for Judaism.
You retorted what I originally thought to be that G-d's method of spreading Judaism hasn't worked well for turning non-Jews, Jewish.
To that I responded that non-Jews are not the intended targets of G-d's Books.
You then explained that you were talking about Jews themselves who do not follow Jewish Law, and this illustrates that these Books are not effective even in reaching their intended targets. You also added a line about other Abrahamic religions.
I retorted that people who do not follow Jewish Law, don't do so because of a problem in the transmission of G-d's Word through the Torah. They do so because they choose not to follow the Law. I then gave an example of the sin of the Golden Calf, where only 40 days prior, we heard G-d command us not to worship idols. I also added that I didn't understand your comment about other Abrahamic religions, as they don't seem to fit the context of our discussions.
Lastly, you continued talking about Christian and Islamic beliefs about their transmission.
Again, I don't understand how this fits the context of our discussion. I am not arguing that Books are an ideal way for religions to transmit their teachings. I have only been arguing for Judaism.
Have we been totally misunderstanding each other this whole time?

Ok.

 

[viole]

Numerous imitations or alterations of the true Creator God have been invented. I'm just saying that humans tend to put themselves as the center of the universe and worship themselves above all else, therefore it's not likely they would have come up with the concept of an all powerful personal God as revealed in the biblical scriptures.

Numerous? Including yours?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

This is just too funny to me. What an odd thing to believe. The God sent messengers to all of the people after Adam eh? As in Adam and Eve Adam? What about humans 315,000 YBP? Isn't Adam supposed to be like 4,000 BP? Certainly not as old as modern homo sapiens have actually been here. Do tell how you know personally that The God sent messengers to them?

Many millions of modern humans have lived and died on this planet long before proselytizing religions with books ever existed.

Using a bit of common sense, one could easily conclude God didn't really think much about the vast majority of humans or he would have allowed or poofed into existence, a way for him to be known long before writing holy books came to be.

Only then did "The Real God" appear on the scene. Quite a coincidence if you ask me.

I only caught your post because I decided to check in here tonight. I hardly ever post on this forum anymore, as of about six weeks ago when I returned to the other forum I had been posting on before I came here. It is one of those Delphi forums I told you about before which is mostly comprised of atheists and a few Christians. I am not sure how long I will stay there. I went back because I felt like I was called back. I wish I had the time for both forums, but I do not have the time. I will check in here periodically though.

It is not a Baha’i belief that there was an Adam and Eve or that they were the first humans. We believe that the Genesis story is mythology, intended to convey spiritual truths. We believe in evolution and that humans evolved from animals; at a certain point about 200,000 years ago, humans became a separate species with a soul.

Baha’is believe that Adam was a Prophet (Messenger of God) who ushered in the Adamic Cycle of religion which began about 6000 years ago and ended with Muhammad. In 1844, a whole new religious cycle was ushered in with the coming of the Bab and Baha’u’llah. The religious cycle we are now living in will last no less than 500,000 years.

Before the Adamic Cycle of religion, there were many universal cycles of religion of which no trace remains. During those cycles, God sent Messengers but the art of writing had not been developed which is why we have no records.

The “Real God” has been on the scene ever since humans evolved. God has always made His existence known by sending Messengers since the dawn of human history, so humans have always had religions, long before any holy books were ever written.

I know all of this because it was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I only caught your post because I decided to check in here tonight. I hardly ever post on this forum anymore, as of about six weeks ago when I returned to the other forum I had been posting on before I came here. It is one of those Delphi forums I told you about before which is mostly comprised of atheists and a few Christians. I am not sure how long I will stay there. I went back because I felt like I was called back. I wish I had the time for both forums, but I do not have the time. I will check in here periodically though.

It is not a Baha’i belief that there was an Adam and Eve or that they were the first humans. We believe that the Genesis story is mythology, intended to convey spiritual truths. We believe in evolution and that humans evolved from animals; at a certain point about 200,000 years ago, humans became a separate species with a soul.

Baha’is believe that Adam was a Prophet (Messenger of God) who ushered in the Adamic Cycle of religion which began about 6000 years ago and ended with Muhammad. In 1844, a whole new religious cycle was ushered in with the coming of the Bab and Baha’u’llah. The religious cycle we are now living in will last no less than 500,000 years.

Before the Adamic Cycle of religion, there were many universal cycles of religion of which no trace remains. During those cycles, God sent Messengers but the art of writing had not been developed which is why we have no records.

The “Real God” has been on the scene ever since humans evolved. God has always made His existence known by sending Messengers since the dawn of human history, so humans have always had religions, long before any holy books were ever written.

I know all of this because it was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

Interesting beliefs.I know I would have a very hard time swallowing that. In fact, it would be impossible as there is no evidence for any of that including "the god". But as they say, to each his own. Some people just find things easier to believe than others.

I'm sure your old forums are happy to have you back. I know before you said how horrible they were and the owner was a jerk so you must have forgiven them for banning you. That's nice. Enjoy.

 

[Trailblazer]

Interesting beliefs.I know I would have a very hard time swallowing that. In fact, it would be impossible as there is no evidence for any of that including "the god". But as they say, to each his own. Some people just find things easier to believe than others.

I think we all just view things differently, according to our perspectives that are related to myriad factors such as inborn heredity, childhood upbringing, adult experiences, education, etc. All people will not believe the same things, at least not right now. There is a reason to believe that will happen in the future, but it will probably be the result of God interceding.

I
I'm sure your old forums are happy to have you back. I know before you said how horrible they were and the owner was a jerk so you must have forgiven them for banning you. That's nice. Enjoy.

It was simply a misunderstanding and he went off in a huff and would not accept my apology. The same thing could happen again, as I see him ramping up. If it does, at least I know I can always come back here as a regular. I am very adjustable to any circumstances that come my way in life, as I have had to deal with so many.

One thing I will not tolerate is injustice. That is not a believer-friendly forum like here, so I am always walking on eggshells. Christians and Jews are tolerated but the owner and moderator have it in for the Baha'i Faith. There is only one other Baha'i there but she hardly ever talks about religion. How dare I talk about religion on a religious forum.