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Did Moses break the tablets with God's law on them?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What kind do you think Islam claims?

Islam claims to be one and only universal revelation from God for all humanity, and there will be no more revelation from God in the future.

Basically the same claim as Christianity, and Judaism though in Judaism for Jews only with limited conversion to become part of the tribe..
 
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Remté

Active Member
Islam claims to be one and only universal revelation from God for all humanity, and there will be no more revelation from God in the future.

Basically the same claim as Christianity, and Judaism though in Judaism for Jews only with limited conversion to become part of the tribe..
So your problem is that it claims Islam is the right religion.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The biblical and the Quranic versions differ. The bible says he was so enraged on returning that he broke the tablets. The Quran doesn't say this. It is clear from the Quran the tablets are not broken. It is said that it would be outragous to claim that Moses would break the tablets. They are from God after all and they have God's law on them and Moses is not a man with a weak nature.

Thoughts?
I'd say it's premature to muse about what Moses did or didn't do before it's established that he even existed at all.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
We dont know how heavy the tablets wer.

We dont know how steep the parts wer that he walked.

I dont see reason to doubt it though.
Especially not when they story is replete with enough magic that explaining something else away with magic wouldn't be inconsistent at all.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Judaism ... claim God releases special favorable laws and prophecy that some Kings, rulers and warlords claim exclusiveness for their tribe only.

I believe Judaism ... are tribal religions that make similar claims based what they believed in their relationship with God, and the tribal war lords of Judaism and Islam claimed to rule by Divine Right.

And yet we had a loose tribal confederation full with foreign worship for a damn long time after Moses.
And this foreign worship continued well into the time of Kings.


But if it doesn't fit the narrative it is best to be ignored.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Then neither should anyone accept your authority in English, or mine, or any native English speaker's apart from whoever wrote the dictionary or something. It's rather funny that you've basically just asserted that you yourself cannot read and understand a book in English enough to explain it to someone who cannot.
your logic skills need a bit of work.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Wrong again.
So explain yourself. How isn't Tumah adequate to explain the Biblical Hebrew when he's been studying it most of his life, still does and can read and explain it to anyone who asks? Are you aware of the lifestyle he lives with regard to his religion?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Then explain, how God had Moses to bring another set tablets to him, So God could write down what was on the first set of tablets.

Exodus 34:1---"And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest"

Even the Lord God saying Moses broke the first tablets of stone.

Now as to why did Moses break the first tablets of stone, because the people broke all the laws of God's.

So God had Moses to bring another set of tablets of stone. So God wrote what was the first tablets of stone, on the second tablets of stone.

It's obvious the Qu'ran ( Muhammad) are always found in Contradicting God.

Muslims have a slightly different version than either Jews or Christians have.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So explain yourself. How isn't Tumah adequate to explain the Biblical Hebrew when he's been studying it most of his life, still does and can read and explain it to anyone who asks? Are you aware of the lifestyle he lives with regard to his religion?
That is only his claim. He cannot support it. He in all likelihood has a very biased approach to the book. Guess what? Do do I. The to that neither of us is an authority. It is best to use a neutral interpretation that we can both agree upon. If you recall asked him which interpretation he preferred. I did not demand that the version I chose was the only correct one.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
That is only his claim. He cannot support it. He in all likelihood has a very biased approach to the book. Guess what? Do do I. The to that neither of us is an authority. It is best to use a neutral interpretation that we can both agree upon. If you recall asked him which interpretation he preferred. I did not demand that the version I chose was the only correct one.
There is no such thing as a neutral interpretation.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There is no such thing as a neutral interpretation.
You appear to have trouble following the conversation. That is why I asked him what his preferred translation was. Did you not see that I did not claim to have used the door "correct" translation?
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Especially not when they story is replete with enough magic that explaining something else away with magic wouldn't be inconsistent at all.

Even if "magic" is used to explain how the paranormal events of the Jewish Exodus story could have actually took place, it still appears there was no mass exodus of Jews out of Egypt to the Jewish promise land.; hence, even in the presence of miracles, it appears the tale of the Jewish Exodus is mythological rather than historical.

As I'd mentioned in post #60, .

"The alleged biblical plagues infesting Egypt would have totally devastated Egypt, yet this devastion of Egypt is never mentioned anywhere outside of the Bible. An Egypt weakened by plagues, death of its firstborn sons, and drowning of its army would have been noticed by its neighbors and such a devastated Egypt likely would have been taken advantage of by one of its neighboring rivals, yet none of that ever happened. Egypt's rivals certainly wouldn't have had an incentive to cover up such disasters to Egypt of biblical proportions.

The consensus of modern scholars is that the Bible does not give an accurate account of the origins of Israel.

Reference: Davies, Philip R. (2015). In Search of 'Ancient Israel': A Study in Biblical Origins. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9780567662996.

There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).

Reference: Redmount, Carol A. (2001) [1998]. "Bitter Lives: Israel In And Out of Egypt". In Coogan, Michael D. The Oxford History of the Biblical World. OUP.ISBN 9780199881482.

In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.

Reference: Barmash, Pamela (2015b). "Out of the Mists of History: The Exaltation of the Exodus in the Bible". In Barmash, Pamela; Nelson, W. David. Exodus in the Jewish Experience: Echoes and Reverberations. Lexington Books. pp. 1–22.ISBN 9781498502931.

While a few scholars discuss the historicity, or at least plausibility, of the Exodus story, the majority of archaeologists have abandoned it, in the phrase used by archaeologist William Dever, as "a fruitless pursuit.

References: Moore, Megan Bishop; Kelle, Brad E. (2011). Biblical History and Israel's Past. Eerdmans. ISBN 9780802862600. Dever, William (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It?. Eerdmans. ISBN 3927120375.

So then, we here should all agree that the tale of the Jewish Exodus from Egypt and subsequent events of Jews wandering around lost in the desert until reaching their promise land never actually happened . .. Right?

 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Even if "magic" is used to explain how the paranormal events of the Jewish Exodus story could have actually took place, it still appears there was no mass exodus of Jews out of Egypt to the Jewish promise land.; hence, even in the presence of miracles, it appears the tale of the Jewish Exodus is mythological rather than historical.

As I'd mentioned in post #60, .

"The alleged biblical plagues infesting Egypt would have totally devastated Egypt, yet this devastion of Egypt is never mentioned anywhere outside of the Bible. An Egypt weakened by plagues, death of its firstborn sons, and drowning of its army would have been noticed by its neighbors and such a devastated Egypt likely would have been taken advantage of by one of its neighboring rivals, yet none of that ever happened. Egypt's rivals certainly wouldn't have had an incentive to cover up such disasters to Egypt of biblical proportions.

The consensus of modern scholars is that the Bible does not give an accurate account of the origins of Israel.

Reference: Davies, Philip R. (2015). In Search of 'Ancient Israel': A Study in Biblical Origins. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9780567662996.

There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).

Reference: Redmount, Carol A. (2001) [1998]. "Bitter Lives: Israel In And Out of Egypt". In Coogan, Michael D. The Oxford History of the Biblical World. OUP.ISBN 9780199881482.

In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.

Reference: Barmash, Pamela (2015b). "Out of the Mists of History: The Exaltation of the Exodus in the Bible". In Barmash, Pamela; Nelson, W. David. Exodus in the Jewish Experience: Echoes and Reverberations. Lexington Books. pp. 1–22.ISBN 9781498502931.

While a few scholars discuss the historicity, or at least plausibility, of the Exodus story, the majority of archaeologists have abandoned it, in the phrase used by archaeologist William Dever, as "a fruitless pursuit.

References: Moore, Megan Bishop; Kelle, Brad E. (2011). Biblical History and Israel's Past. Eerdmans. ISBN 9780802862600. Dever, William (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It?. Eerdmans. ISBN 3927120375.

So then, we here should all agree that the tale of the Jewish Exodus from Egypt and subsequent events of Jews wandering around lost in the desert until reaching their promise land never actually happened . .. Right?

actually the best explanation is as usual not "magic" but rather "fiction".
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
actually the best explanation is as usual not "magic" but rather "fiction".
Overall yes, but if we're granting everything as given that we would need to to get to the point where Moses is walking down Mount Sinai carrying tablets carved by God's own hand, then we've granted enough that the weight of the tablets doesn't suggest a fatal flaw for the story.
 
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