Tumah
Veteran Member
No, that would be mehaweh. The root hwh gains the m prefix in the present tense causative (hif'il) form. The last vowel e indicates a masculine form.BTW, the name “Jehovah” means, “He Causes to Become”
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No, that would be mehaweh. The root hwh gains the m prefix in the present tense causative (hif'il) form. The last vowel e indicates a masculine form.BTW, the name “Jehovah” means, “He Causes to Become”
No, that is how we translate our own Scriptures.If we are in any doubt, this is how the Jews interpret their own scripture.
Concerning the arguments against saying or writing the name Jehovah, & variations. . . . .
So, what theoretical argument is there, aside from literally never writing or saying the name? Is that practical?
Anyways, I'll leave it at that.
Why? What is the point of revealing his name to man if it is not to be uttered?No, that is how we translate our own Scriptures.
This is how we interpret it (from your link):
This is My name forever: Heb. לְעֹלָם [It is spelled] without a vav, meaning: conceal it [God’s name] תהַעִלִימֵהוּ [so] that it should not be read as it is written. — [from Pes. 50a] Since the “vav” of (לְעֹלָ ם) is missing, we are to understand it as לְעַלֵּם, to conceal, meaning that the pronunciation of the way God’s name is written (י-ה-ו-ה) is to be concealed. — [from Pes. 50a.]
Names in the Tanach give us insight into the named.Why? What is the point of revealing his name to man if it is not to be uttered?
So often, people say that Jehovah, written or presumably even said, is wrong...no, actually they are wrong.
First off, in a fundamental way, of transliteration, it isn't 'wrong'.
The reason it isn't 'wrong', in this manner, the most basic of manners, of why it isn't wrong, is because letter transliteration itself, isn't wrong. We do this all the time. And I will give an example of how common this is , this occurs all the time with names, and words. So, in one language, a word or name might start with a a letter, however in some languages, this is pronounced, differently. Now, a person whose native or original language pronounces this in a different manner, however maintains the spelling correlation, we don't say the word, or name, is 'wrong', contextually. Since it is the same word, or name, and that word or name is what is being referred to.
Now, concerning JeHoVaH. Or, JHVH. The vowels that aren't present not represented, here, the 'j', in some languages, is the same as a 'y'. Hence Yehovah, is fine to write as well, as are other variations that maintain the language concept, here.
In this very basic sense, Jehovah and some other variations, are not 'wrong'.
There is more, though. Because we can note that not only is Jehovah, 'not wrong', as a name version, it is wonderfully correct, in that it maintains this name of God, in such an exquisite way. It is truly, majestically guided, in the way this name version does this. Because, in a basic manner, you can't be wrong, with this. The transliteration is literal, however works whether you are pronouncing this name with a 'j', or a 'y', for example.
Especially amazing is when those who are familiar with Hebrew, or should have been told otherwise, say that this version of the name is wrong. This version of the name is the same as written by the Jewish scribes, the different language or letters being used, thusly, when we write it in English, for example.
Names in the Tanach give us insight into the named.
Why does G-d make Himself known by the various Names used throughout Tanach? Why do different people use different Names for G-d at different times in Tanach?In Ex. 6:3, G-d tells Moses that He was not known by the Tetragrammaton to the Patriarchs. Yet in Gen. 13:4, Abraham refers to G-d by the Tetragrammaton and he does so explicitly in 14:22. And that's one of three or four different ways that Abraham uses to refer to G-d.
The Names of G-d give us insight into different forms of G-d's administration. When a character or narrative is relating to a specific form of administration, it uses the specific Name that expresses that form of administration. Ex. 6:3 is not saying that the Patriarchs did not know the Tetragrammaon. They knew the Name and they used it. What they didn't know was the experience of the form of Divine Providence that the Tetragrammaton represents. There experience of Divine Providence was through a different Name.
I understand why, as a Christian, that makes sense to you. Your god can take the limited form of a person, so he can also be expressed in the limiting form of a name, so there's no problem with reading those parts of the Tanach literally.I find only the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) stands for God's personal name. (.... Hallowed by thy name.... )
Lord (and in all upper-case letters in the King James as LORD -Psalms 110) is a title.
The word God is also Not a name but a title.
But at Exodus 3:15, Jehovah did state His Name there:Everything you have said is wrong. Saying the name of God was very sacred that only the Priests of Israel were the only ones allowed to say the name of God. During the reading of the scrolls/ scriptures to the people and this being the only time God's name could be mention by the priest themselves only and no other time.
Why do you suppose when Moses ask God what is his name, because the people would ask Moses what is name.
And God said to Moses ( I Am That I Am )
has sent you This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exodus 3:13-15---"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations"
So if its not wrong to write or say God's name then why didn't God tell Moses what his name is other than saying
( I Am That I Am) this is my name for ever and this is my memorial unto all generations"
I understand why, as a Christian, that makes sense to you. Your god can take the limited form of a person, so he can also be expressed in the limiting form of a name, so there's no problem with reading those parts of the Tanach literally.
The Jewish G-d cannot be defined in any sort of finite terms at all, so all terms in Tanach used to relate to G-d can only be understood relatively. G-d's Names can only be understood as perceptions of G-d's administration of the world, because all of our relation to G-d is only through His administration of the world. When G-d says that the Tetragrammaton is His Name, He's saying that this is the most basic level of administration, that out of this form of administration, all other perceptions of administration descend.
For instance, we have the Tetragrammaton which connotes G-d's Causative-ness. We have the Name Elo-him, which expresses G-d's Power. When G-d creates the world, He is causing the world to come into existence. But the aspect that is brought to the fore, is G-d's Power out of which all the natures of creation are brought into existence. When G-d grants overflowing success to the Patriarchs, G-d is causing their success. But what is brought to the fore, is G-d's Beneficience denoted by the Name Sha-dai. The aspect that my Patriarchs did not experience for themselves, was G-d's fulfillment of all the promises He made to them concerning their children. That experience of the fulfillment of G-d's promise is an experience of His Causative-ness, which here is expressed as G-d's ability to cause events to occur according to His Will.
So for Jewish people, all the Names the Tanach uses for these forms of administration are called Names, while the Tetragrammaton is considered the most central of them.
But at Exodus 3:15, Jehovah did state His Name there:
And God said to Moses again “You are to say to the sons of Israel ‘Jehovah, your fathers’ God, Abraham’s God, Isaac’s God, Jacob’s God, has sent me to you’; this is my name forever, and this is my identification for generation after generation."
-- Byington's
"For generation after generation", huh? Somebody dropped the ball! I guess they're not interested in "everlasting life"! -- John 17:3
Thank you for your reply.I understand why, as a Christian, that makes sense to you. Your god can take the limited form of a person, so he can also be expressed in the limiting form of a name, so there's no problem with reading those parts of the Tanach literally.
The Jewish G-d cannot be defined in any sort of finite terms at all, so all terms in Tanach used to relate to G-d can only be understood relatively. G-d's Names can only be understood as perceptions of G-d's administration of the world, because all of our relation to G-d is only through His administration of the world. When G-d says that the Tetragrammaton is His Name, He's saying that this is the most basic level of administration, that out of this form of administration, all other perceptions of administration descend.
For instance, we have the Tetragrammaton which connotes G-d's Causative-ness. We have the Name Elo-him, which expresses G-d's Power. When G-d creates the world, He is causing the world to come into existence. But the aspect that is brought to the fore, is G-d's Power out of which all the natures of creation are brought into existence. When G-d grants overflowing success to the Patriarchs, G-d is causing their success. But what is brought to the fore, is G-d's Beneficience denoted by the Name Sha-dai. The aspect that my Patriarchs did not experience for themselves, was G-d's fulfillment of all the promises He made to them concerning their children. That experience of the fulfillment of G-d's promise is an experience of His Causative-ness, which here is expressed as G-d's ability to cause events to occur according to His Will.
So for Jewish people, all the Names the Tanach uses for these forms of administration are called Names, while the Tetragrammaton is considered the most central of them.
Did you just break into dramatic song and dance in the middle of a post...?The Hebrew JHWH translated to English, means 'I Am' "Who I Am," The only name in heaven or earth by which we can be saved.
Exodus 3: 14; God said to Moses; “I Am, 'Who I Am.' ”
Today I became the one I am, the one that I was yesterday is gone
The one I’ll be tomorrow I will be: but today I found “I AM Who I Am.”
For, I am, ‘who I am’ and may I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am “Who I Am” day and night
I’m not who I was nor who I will be,
For “Who I Am” is the name that My God gave to me.
And now my friend, come soar with me
To the outer limits of reality
This universe, though wide it seems
Is but the shadow of our dreams
We are nought but knowledge in these tents
Refined through pain and punishment
We're the hive of man and neath His rod
We are one, we're the Son of God
The past, the present, the future is He
He was, He is, and He will be
And heaven is but a point in time
To where the spirit in man must climb
Eventually when He's there at last
And stands and gazes on His past
And takes the throne prepared in heaven
Then all His past will be forgiven.
I am who I am, the die is cast
For I was created by my past
And we who we are this very day
Determines His future in every way
If my past were changed, then who would I be?
One thing is certain, I wouldn't be me.
So get behind me you Charlatan priests, and you shams
For I am true to my God, to MY God, “WHO I AM.”
Until you can accept 'Who You Are' You will not be accepted by God, who cannot stand liars.
This is the effect you have on people. It's not just me after all.Did you just break into dramatic song and dance in the middle of a post...?
Then maybe you can show as to where God stated his name in the KJV bible and the Jewish Torah,
Seeing how both of them are stating the same thing, But no mentioning of God saying his name ( Jehovah)
The KJV bible
Exodus 3:15--"And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations"
The Jewish Torah
Exodus 3:15---"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation"
As you can see that God said nothing about giving his name.
In either the KJV bible or the Torah.
As I have come across this very thing before with Jehovah witnesses, as the Jehovah witnesses are known for deleting and adding to God's word.
As the Jehovah witnesses are big on putting the name ( Jehovah) in places where it's not mention.
God gave warning two times about adding and deleting from his word in the books of Deuteronomy and the book of Revelation.
Deuteronomy 4:2--"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you"
And in the book of Revelation 22:18-19--
18--"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19-- "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"
Of course for me, Matthew isn't an authority whether your interpretation of his position is truly his position or not. I'm also not sure what you mean by "personal Tetragrammaton name". The Tetragrammaton is only one Name of four (tetra) letters.Thank you for your reply.
To me Elo-him is Not a personal Tetragrammaton (YHWH) name, because Elo-him means 'God'. (a title word)
Also, some say Adho-nai' which I find is also Not a personal name, but means 'Sovereign Lord'. (a title)
Matthew does use hash-Shem' and the Hebrew hash-Shem means 'The Name' in reference to the divine name.
Matthew 3:3's passage is in reference to Isaiah 40:3.
Thus, Matthew was was making a reference to the old Hebrew Scriptures were the Tetragrammaton is found.
So, Matthew was incorporating the ' divine name ' in his gospel account.
This shows then that Matthew actually used the Tetragrammaton in supporting the Christian Scriptures.
Of course for me, Matthew isn't an authority whether your interpretation of his position is truly his position or not. I'm also not sure what you mean by "personal Tetragrammaton name". The Tetragrammaton is only one Name of four (tetra) letters.
Elohim can and is used as a title for G-d when it's prefixed with a definite article. Otherwise, the correct form the word should take as a title is "eloah". The same for 'adon'. In the plural (as Elo-him and Ado-nai) these words uniquely identify a specific individual. That is exactly the definition of a name.
KJV Exodus 3:14. "And God said unto Moses, I am, that I am, (In Hebrew, JHWH) Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, 'I AM' has sent me unto you. (15) And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, (I AM) and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation"
It looks like you've turned to just shooting what you think to be factoids at me, rather than responding to the actual content of my response.Definition of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Not Ado-nai nor Elohim but those two titles which describes God.
Just as Lord is a title.
I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trying to be inflammatory, rather than that you're stupid and don't realize you're moving the conversation outside neutral territory.There are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned in the King James Version at Psalms 110.
The Upper-Case LORD stands for the Tetragrammaton name.
The Lord, in some lower case-letters, stand for the Lord Jesus. No Tetragrammaton there.
So, Jesus is Not the Tetragrammaton name.
I have no idea what you're talking about and please don't explain it either.Jesus did Not pray his name should be hallowed (held sacred) but that his God's name should be hallowed.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. I'm guessing this is part of the "shot random factoids at him" technique.Scholars look at the Hebrew Tetragrammaton name as being Yahweh or Yeho'wah.
'Ha-lelu-Yah' is in reference to God's personal name. ' Praise Yah ( Latinized 'Jah') you people.'
- Psalms 104:35; Psalms 150:1; Psalms 150:6; Psalms 89:8
Thus, Yah or Jah is Not a synonym for the title word God or LORD, but it is an abbreviation of God's personal name as found recorded at Psalms 83:18.