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Does the Judeo-Christian Bible say Jesus is God?

74x12

Well-Known Member
My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position.Here goes:
A video that is your option to watch:
The preceeding video discusses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek the Bible was written in. Jesus means Jehovah Is Salvation, and His Hebrew name is Yeshua, the Hebrew word for Salvation, referenced here from Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) How can Jesus be Salvation, if He is not Yahweh God? My position is that He has to be God to be able to pay for salvation to those that receive Him. More evidence:
An article from Bible Questions Answered: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
From the article: Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
A Messianic Rabbi on Jesus being God:
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?
IT does say clearly and distinctly that Jesus is God. The people who disagree ahve to throw out the most trustworthy Biblical manuscripts and turn to untrustworthy sources to justify their doctrines.

In Revelation 1:8 it is clearly Jesus talking "I Am the Alpha and the Omega ... the Almighty"

Case closed for those brave enough to believe the Bible for what it really says.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Please don't refer to a "Judeo Christian Bible." There is no such thing. The Jewish Tanakh is different from the Christian Scriptures in that the Jewish Tanakh has no New Testament. The Jewish Tanakh has not one word about Jesus. Not one word.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Which is 100% compatible with the Trinitarian approach, largely because of the Church's use of "essence" in its theology. IOW, the "essence" of Jesus is of the essence of God, much like the "essence" of bread and wine taken at the Eucharist is of the body and blood of Christ.

See: Essence - Wikipedia

I believe your simile fails to be true. Bread is essentially bread just as the body of Jesus is essentially a body. However a spirit can inhabit a body but it can't inhabit bread. Jesus said this is my body (referring t the bread) but in reality it wasn't His body. So the only remaining explanation is that it is symbolically His body.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Please don't refer to a "Judeo Christian Bible." There is no such thing. The Jewish Tanakh is different from the Christian Scriptures in that the Jewish Tanakh has no New Testament. The Jewish Tanakh has not one word about Jesus. Not one word.

I do not refer to the Tanakh as the Bible. I do believe the OT has a Jewish source and since Jesus and some of the NT writers like Paul were also Jewish.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe your simile fails to be true. Bread is essentially bread just as the body of Jesus is essentially a body. However a spirit can inhabit a body but it can't inhabit bread. Jesus said this is my body (referring t the bread) but in reality it wasn't His body. So the only remaining explanation is that it is symbolically His body.
John 6[50] This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
[52] The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.



I believe the key to understanding this is with the concept of "essence", which one can find here: Essence - Wikipedia.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
John 6[50] This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
[52] The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.



I believe the key to understanding this is with the concept of "essence", which one can find here: Essence - Wikipedia.

I believe Wkipedia did not help make anything more clear.

I believe one must ask if it is real flesh then where is it coming from? Jesus is not on earth.

BTW I believe Jesus did not answer their question.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I believe you mean the Jews who no longer believe in God because they have rejected Him. The Jews who believed in God and accepted Him wrote most of the NT.
Excuse me, but most Jews DO believe in God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and reject Jesus and the NT. That would include me, and a handful of the observant Jews in this forum.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe Wkipedia did not help make anything more clear.

I believe one must ask if it is real flesh then where is it coming from? Jesus is not on earth.

BTW I believe Jesus did not answer their question.
Again, the key is in the word "essence", and the impression is that you didn't read my link because it should be logical even if you don't agree with it.
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Excuse me, but most Jews DO believe in God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and reject Jesus and the NT. That would include me, and a handful of the observant Jews in this forum.
Just curious, your definition of "observant"?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Just curious, your definition of "observant"?
I have a very loose definition. I would say any Jew that *aspires* to keep the commandments. I try to stay out of the denominational debates.

My comment was simply to distinguish the religious Jews from the atheist Jews, not to try and cause division among those Jews practicing Judaism. I believe I was pointing out that there were simply not a lot of religious Jews in the forum (and most that are, are the quiet types).
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Excuse me, but most Jews DO believe in God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and reject Jesus and the NT. That would include me, and a handful of the observant Jews in this forum.

I believe by rejecting Jesus you are rejecting God. You can't say to God I recognize you because you are wearing a blue suit but if you wear a red one you can't be God and I don't recognize you.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I believe by rejecting Jesus you are rejecting God. You can't say to God I recognize you because you are wearing a blue suit but if you wear a red one you can't be God and I don't recognize you.
Nonsense. Remember that back when your ancestors were worshiping rocks and trees and ceramic images, Jews were worshiping the Creator of the Universe. We do so still. It's nice that you are playing catch up. But don't presume you didn't learn it from us.

God doesn't care if we think his shirt is green or red. He knows that some folks are colorblind. He is much more concerned with whether we love Him with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves.
 

tigger2

Active Member
IT does say clearly and distinctly that Jesus is God. The people who disagree ahve to throw out the most trustworthy Biblical manuscripts and turn to untrustworthy sources to justify their doctrines.

In Revelation 1:8 it is clearly Jesus talking "I Am the Alpha and the Omega ... the Almighty"

Case closed for those brave enough to believe the Bible for what it really says.


At Rev. 1:6-7, John is obviously speaking:

...hath made us kings and priests unto God .... [The KJV continues in Rev. 1:8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (1:9) I JOHN, who also am your brother....

Notice, since the KJV doesn’t use quotation marks at all (they hadn’t yet been invented in 1611), you are free to mentally insert them whenever and wherever you wish (as was the case in the original manuscripts and their copies for centuries thereafter). Therefore, you may interpret the whole statement of Rev. 1:8 as being the words of God, or you may decide that God’s actual words end at “the beginning and the ending,” and that the rest of the words in Rev. 1:8 are descriptive words added by John. Or, as you have done, you may interpret the words as belonging to someone else

If you look at Rev. 1:8 in The Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NRSV, GW, KJ21, NEB, NET, REB, and WEB, you will find that their trinitarian translators, editors, and publishers have decided that only the first part of Rev. 1:8 is spoken by God, and they use beginning and ending quotation marks to show that.

If you look at Rev. 1:8 in the CEB, CEV, CSB, ESV, NASB, NAB (1970), NAB (1991), NCV, NKJV, NJB, MEV, and the NIV, however, you will see that their trinitarian translators, editors, and publishers have decided that all of Rev. 1:8 was spoken by the Lord God, and they use beginning and ending quotation marks to show that meaning.

Most Trinitarian scholars take Rev. 1:8 alone as the words of God ("Alpha and Omega") not Jesus. John is speaking on both sides of that.
 
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