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Why did these kids die?

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Clearly, the death of these children, the government shutdown, and hurricane Katrina are all Trump's fault. I have also implicated him in the dirty dishes in left in my kitchen sink and starting the rumor of my poor fashion sense.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Redirect Notice

Guatemalan boy who died in US custody had the flu, medical examiner says - CNN

Tragic occurrences. Worse still, because of the circumstances, these deaths by their very nature become political.

Recently, Trump has seemed to give an answer to this OP title question. His answer is democrats. He blames the deaths of children at the border on democrats not giving him his wall money.

Do you agree?
I would have to disagree with Trump in this instance. I don't know if too many people in any capacity or party that would willingly allow something like this to happen.

While the deaths are certainly tragic, I suspect other factors may come into play likes a foreigners medical vulnerability to things like the flu. Something that may not kill us Americans in general, but maybe very serious for somebody else outside the country. I cannot believe that everything was not done as best as possible to save their lives and would not be surprised to see the story get politicized just so people can take a crack at Trump.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Recently, Trump has seemed to give an answer to this OP title question. His answer is democrats. He blames the deaths of children at the border on democrats not giving him his wall money.

Do you agree?
Heck, I definitely do not.

I can't even figure how anyone could in good faith agree.

My own answer to the question is "because showmanship has taken hold of Trump's border policy, and those unfortunate children were on the way".
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Clearly, the death of these children, the government shutdown, and hurricane Katrina are all Trump's fault. I have also implicated him in the dirty dishes in left in my kitchen sink and starting the rumor of my poor fashion sense.

The government shutdown is certainly his fault. I think most Americans know that. I myself also blame him for starting the rumors of your poor fashion sense. Such vicious rumors would be beneath any decent man to start.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I would have to disagree with Trump in this instance. I don't know if too many people in any capacity or party that would willingly allow something like this to happen.

While the deaths are certainly tragic, I suspect other factors may come into play likes a foreigners medical vulnerability to things like the flu. Something that may not kill us Americans in general, but maybe very serious for somebody else outside the country. I cannot believe that everything was not done as best as possible to save their lives and would not be surprised to see the story get politicized just so people can take a crack at Trump.
I cannot believe everything was done as best as possible to save their lives.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
@SalixIncendium

I am not blaming Trump. I think we all share in this blame and should demand better. I do think it is sad that Trump took this tactless approach to addressing the issue.

Agreed, but it's not surprising. After all, there is a reason they call it 'politics.' He is certainly not the pioneer of political tactlessness.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Agreed, but it's not surprising. After all, there is a reason they call it 'politics.' He is certainly not the pioneer of political tactlessness.
And I understand that. I think one would be hard pressed to think of a president who did not act tactless at some point.

That does not make it okay. Nor does that mean we should ignore such behavior.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Their parents or guardians made them travel a long way, maybe ill prepared for the journey. I'd imagine a combination of hunger or poor food, poor hygiene, dehydration, and many people living alongside each other in probably less than sanitary conditions all contributed greatly to the poor condition of the children's health when they arrived. I would also say that the large influx of immigrants at one time in one place put a strain on staff, services, and supplies. I would imagine all these contributed to their deaths.

Things happen
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Greed and ignorance. It's always the same cause.

Trump's cronies are raking in huge profits off the fear, ignorance, and bigotry of his xenophobic supporters. And some of these xenophobes are now employed by these same cronies and their companies profiting from the detainment and deliberate punishment of the "evil foreign hoard" that they've managed to convince a lot of American zenophobes is a big threat. And those xenophobes working within the system are not particularly interested in the well being of this "threatening criminal hoard", so they are not quick to see to the well-being of their children (or of them, either). And as always, it's most vulnerable that will pay the ultimate price.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Their parents or guardians made them travel a long way, maybe ill prepared for the journey. I'd imagine a combination of hunger or poor food, poor hygiene, dehydration, and many people living alongside each other in probably less than sanitary conditions all contributed greatly to the poor condition of the children's health when they arrived. I would also say that the large influx of immigrants at one time in one place put a strain on staff, services, and supplies. I would imagine all these contributed to their deaths.

Things happen
I agree largely. I do not think that means that we should abide policies that do not demand quick, medically responsible actions from our law enforcement.

Yet this is not where the discussion seems to have gone.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Their parents or guardians made them travel a long way, maybe ill prepared for the journey. I'd imagine a combination of hunger or poor food, poor hygiene, dehydration, and many people living alongside each other in probably less than sanitary conditions all contributed greatly to the poor condition of the children's health when they arrived. I would also say that the large influx of immigrants at one time in one place put a strain on staff, services, and supplies. I would imagine all these contributed to their deaths.

Things happen

You said this more eloquently and way more diplomatically then I was going to. Why did these kids die? Because their parents made stupid decisions. Who's to blame? See previous answer.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
And I understand that. I think one would be hard pressed to think of a president who did not act tactless at some point.

That does not make it okay. Nor does that mean we should ignore such behavior.

You take my acceptance of the tactlessness to be dismissal.

I can assure you that the behavior is stored away and utilized on the next election cycle. I find that much more practical than slamming a president on a religious forum. *shrugs*
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I am not so sure that the parents decisions were proximate causes.

Then that's really the problem, isn't it. There are folks out there that are ready to blame everyone else for the consequences of their choices in life. Would you drag your kid into a strange neighborhood expecting everyone in the 'hood to open their doors if your child were sick?
 

Audie

Veteran Member

tytlyf

Not Religious
You said this more eloquently and way more diplomatically then I was going to. Why did these kids die? Because their parents made stupid decisions. Who's to blame? See previous answer.
I'll address the RW talking point "these parents are to blame for forcing the kids to walk thousands of miles with the hopes of illegally crossing a border!"

What was the other option? Stay home and get murdered? Traveling as a group allows them to share food and resources.

The parents had 2 options in life:

-Walk thousands of miles to legally immigrate
-Stay home and have a good chance of getting murdered

Which option would you have taken?
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I agree that TDS is real.
And it's justified. People must be nuts to think TDS is based on nothing. There's still some true patriots like myself and others that will protect this country from threats, foreign or domestic.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Greed and ignorance. It's always the same cause.

Trump's cronies are raking in huge profits off the fear, ignorance, and bigotry of his xenophobic supporters. And some of these xenophobes are now employed by these same cronies and their companies profiting from the detainment and deliberate punishment of the "evil foreign hoard" that they've managed to convince a lot of American zenophobes is a big threat. And those xenophobes working within the system are not particularly interested in the well being of this "threatening criminal hoard", so they are not quick to see to the well-being of their children (or of them, either). And as always, it's most vulnerable that will pay the ultimate price.

And a lot of name calling is always a terrif analysis.
 
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