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Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Are you open to consider otherwise?

“The Detailed Records
Probably no historical record has been more scoffed at than the Bible. However, the facts show that if it weren’t considered a book of religion and it had only recently been discovered by archaeologists, it would be proclaimed the most significant find in all history. For its details as to family lines, lands of occupation, life spans, and events should provide positive proof to even the most skeptical observers that its accounts are genuine and accurate, because no one would go into such minute detail if they were simply creating a forged document. Oh, they could if they wished, but that would require a high level of sophistication and some very dark motives.

Take for example the genealogies found at Genesis 4:17-5:31, 10:1-31, 11:10-32, 14:1-8, 21:32, 22:20-24, 25:1-4 & 12-19, 26:34, 28:6-19, 36:1-4 & 9-43, 38:1-5, 46:8-27, 48:7, Numbers 1:1-42, 2:5-32, 26:12-60, and 27:1, just to start with. The details in these accounts prove the Bible to be a compilation of amazingly accurate historical details.

Also, read the genealogies that start in First Chronicles, and you’ll find many names of ancient people who went on to found cities and countries that we’re still familiar with today. Look at the long lists of names of people, then see who their fathers were and who they descended from, the things they did, etc. – things that nobody would be interested in today – and ask why anyone would make all of this up. How could anyone fake so much detail? Also realize that each of the names actually meant something in Hebrew, so they weren’t just a jumble of sounds.

Consider the fact that few would question the authenticity of the Tomb of King David (although the current location is questionable), since it is so well documented by known accurate historians, such as Josephus. Notice that the Gospel writer Luke wrote in the book of Acts (in Chapter 2, verse 29):
‘It’s good to speak to you openly about the patriarch David; for he died, was buried, and his tomb is still with us to this day.’

Yet, many modern critics claim that David never existed! Why would anyone say such a thing when there is no proof at all that he is fictional?

And look at the meticulous records of the people who served in the court of King David, as can be found from 1 Chronicles 23 to the end of that book. Who they were, where they were from, to whom they were related, and what their positions were, is all listed in great detail.

Consider the well-documented historical accounts of what happened when the king of Assyria attacked Judah during the time of King Hezekiah, then compare that to the Bible’s historical details as found in account at Second Chronicles 32.

Also, notice how well 2 Kings 23:29 narrates the history of when the Egyptian Pharaoh Necho II fought against both the Assyrian army and the Judean King JosiAh (and won), and you’ll realize that this is accurately-recorded history!

As for Moses and the Exodus; consider the detailed record of the travels of Israel from their place of departure from Egypt until they entered the Promised Land, as found at Numbers Chapter 33. Here you’ll see that it describes every little town that they traveled past, the directions they went, how long they stayed in each place, and even the geography of the land!

Then look at the writings of Luke (Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts) in this Bible, and click on the dozens of links that show modern documentation of the names, the cities, the titles, and even a specific home (including a picture)… such detailed and proven documentation is virtually unparalleled in any other ancient writing!

For a fact, the Bible is a vast wealth and storehouse of the history of ancient peoples, which through ignorance and prejudice goes unexplored by many. Consider for example, the records of the peoples and the trade goods they supplied to the Mediterranean trade port of Tyre in the Seventh Century BCE, as found in the Twenty-seventh Chapter of the Bible book of Ezekiel. Where else can such valuable records be found?”


http://www.2001translation.com/Authenticity.htm#_1

Yawn...

I was only talking about the "genesis" myth, no need to spaz out and spam me with a massive Christian propaganda copy and paste job.

Besides, you're not dealing with a novice here, I've been on other Christian forums before so know all of your tactics of deceit.

But I'll play along with your SPAM. At best all that proves is that SOME of the bible incorporated Jewish historical recordings, whoopty do!

My main concern over the bible is that it in no way came from any "god" because it is totally devoid of even the most basic spiritual matter. Now why would any "god" have a massive book written about himself that gives no spiritual understandings at all?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Christians have some pretty strong beliefs concerning Adam and Eve and their role in getting mankind where we are today. How do you view Adam and Eve? As villains?
No!

No.

Something in between? Did God know they were going to eat the forbidden fruit?
yes

What was His purpose in putting the tree there in the first place?
God didn't "put" it there. It was a product of something else. I don't know what the something else was.

What would have happened had Adam and Eve never eaten the forbidden fruit?
You're asking US?

What, if any, role would Jesus Christ have had in the world had the Fall never taken place?
He is the king. He would have been the king no matter what.

These are just a few of many questions we could consider in talking about the events as recorded in Genesis and which have such a bearing on our lives today. All respectful discussion welcome.
I try to be. No really, I do!
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
My main concern over the bible is that it in no way came from any "god" because it is totally devoid of even the most basic spiritual matter. Now why would any "god" have a massive book written about himself that gives no spiritual understandings at all?

Colossians 3:12-14, is not about God’s ego. It’s about how we treat others.
In fact, that is a big part of worship....our actions toward others, giving people respect. You don’t think that’s spiritual?
Galatians 5:22-23.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Well, what do you think would have happened with Eve had she alone eaten the forbidden fruit?

I think "THINK", that in pre-Judaistic history, that Adam first had a wife and she went away, Adam killed her, or God killed her or something. My thinking is muddled on the issue. Eve was supposedly the second wife.

There is something that I have "seen" at times in women and that is Genesis 3:16. I don't precisely know the etiology of the conduct, whether it be Biblical or Anthropological but I have witnessed married women making a lot of effort to be submissive to their husbands. In the case where he is just a jerk, then that gets abandoned. So, I think that at least most women make an effort to live that out if possible. I still want to complain lots about how easily animals seem to drop their babies and women often struggle so much. :(
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
By "have any knowledge of" I assume you mean he had not witnessed nor experienced nor practiced anything evil, but you have to ask yourself at the same time . . . did God? Adam had 1 rule and 2 requirements. Don't bother the tree (eat the fruit or touch the tree), fill and subdue the Earth.

What other good and evil was there to know?



Because Satan had raised the question of whether or not God lied. It raised the issue, not only before all men to follow Adam but the myriads of angels as well, who were watching and who had also been created by Jehovah, namely; can they survive without God? Is the creator, Jehovah, rightfully sovereign? Or can mankind make up their minds what is good and what is bad for themselves, in their immature state without destroying themselves?



Yes he did. God told him. Don't eat this.
How would someone who has no knowledge of Good and Evil distinguish between obedience and disobedience? They wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they have eaten from the tree.

You would think some knowledge of Good and Evil would be a prerequisite in order for Adam and Eve to even comply with the instructions from God.

It would lead someone to think in reading the account that Adam had already had knowledge of Good and Evil for which the tree wasn't really a tree of Good and Evil at the start, but rather an ordinary tree set in the garden with symbolic implications that they should not eat of it , rather than imbued with any actual knowledge because Adam and Eve would need to have possessed that knowledge which would seem to be a requirement first, in order to obey God's instructions. That would however negate the tree having any real type of imbued power.

I think people would reasonably think from reading the story that you can't really do good and evil much less being accountable and suffering consequences unless you already know what good and evil is from the start.
 

Earthling

David Henson
How would someone who has no knowledge of Good and Evil distinguish between obedience and disobedience? They wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they have eaten from the tree.

You would think some knowledge of Good and Evil would be a prerequisite in order for Adam and Eve to even comply with the instructions from God.

It would lead someone to think in reading the account that Adam had already had knowledge of Good and Evil for which the tree wasn't really a tree of Good and Evil at the start, but rather an ordinary tree set in the garden with symbolic implications that they should not eat of it , rather than imbued with any actual knowledge because Adam and Eve would need to have possessed that knowledge which would seem to be a requirement first, in order to obey God's instructions. That would however negate the tree having any real type of imbued power.

Now you're gettin' somewhere. The tree was just an ordinary tree in the garden with symbolic meaning rather than imbued with any actual knowledge. Since it was a beautiful tree it's thought by modern day scholars to likely have been the pomegranate tree. But no one knows.

It represented their taking it upon themselves to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad, challenging their creator's sovereignty. That's why they became ashamed of being naked. There was nothing to be ashamed about that, that is the way they were created. The knowledge was an intimate knowledge, to experience what it was like to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad.

Let me show you another place in the Bible where this sort of use of the word knowledge is used.

Read Genesis 19:4-5. There, in the KJV, the men of the city want to "get to know" the angels who were visiting with Lot. Well, that don't sound so bad, does it? Except that in the old days this term applied in this context meant literally to get to intimately experience the angels. Now, hold on, that don't sound so nice. Let's check that translation.

The NIV says have sex with them where the KJV said get to know them. (Link)

Now do you get it?

I think people would reasonably think from reading the story that you can't really do good and evil much less being accountable and suffering consequences unless you already know what good and evil is from the start.

Which they did know because God had told them, and there was no other "good and bad" that they needed to familiarize themselves with at that time.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The Biblical story of creation is false, because as I've noted elsewhere in some other discussions about Christianity, Jesus's family tree has a time span of 77 generations listed between his generation and Adam whom the Bible claims was the "first man". Reference: (Luke 3:23-38) and Eve whom the Bible claims as the mother of all the living. (Genesis 3:20)

However, the Australian aborigines have evidently been in Australia for over a thousand consecutive generations. Reference: Aboriginal Australians - Wikipedia

There have been hundreds of generations of Native Americans between the time their common ancestry migrated from Asia until the time of Christ.

Reference: Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia

Of course, the Bible is wrong; in fact, there were people prior to the 76th generation before Christ that allegedly was spawned by Adam and Eve.

Adam as being the first man and perpetrator of original sin is an important premise of Christianity. If Adam wasn't the first man, then there isn't actually any "origin sin". Jesus supposedly died on the Cross to save humankind from "original sin". If there isn't any "original sin" from which to be saved, then Jesus Christ's death on the Cross is pretty pointless and meaningless. Evidently, there were many generations of people prior to the 76th generation before Christ whom the Bible claims was spawned by Adam. So then, Adam, Eve and original sin are mythological. There is neither any "first man" nor "original sin" throughout human evolution. Thus, Jesus Christ having died on the cross to save mankind from "original sin" is not reality but is rather mythological.

Genesis is an allegorical history. The 'first man' and 'original sin' ideas are allegorical.

Unfortunately, there are some that consider them literal historical facts.
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Christians have some pretty strong beliefs concerning Adam and Eve and their role in getting mankind where we are today. How do you view Adam and Eve? As villains? Heros? Something in between? Did God know they were going to eat the forbidden fruit? What was His purpose in putting the tree there in the first place? What would have happened had Adam and Eve never eaten the forbidden fruit? What, if any, role would Jesus Christ have had in the world had the Fall never taken place?

These are just a few of many questions we could consider in talking about the events as recorded in Genesis and which have such a bearing on our lives today. All respectful discussion welcome.

Katspur,
You have asked some real good questions!!!
I feel sorry for Adam and Eve,because it seems that they will not be resurrected. They were perfect, so their seems to be no excuse for rebelling against God. I feel especially sorry for Adam, because he would never have disobeyed God, and when Eve rebelled, Adam did not want to live without her, so he ate of the fruit. There is one other point to this that I think might be relavent. When God gave the Israelites the Mosaic Law Covenant, there was a very important stipulation. Adam was Eve’s head, so it could were well be that God could have forgiven Eve, if Adam had begged God in her behalf, just as a husband, in the Mosaic Law could come between a man and God by stopping a woman’s vow,if he did not approve of it. Under the Mosaic Law there was very few excuses not to obey vows. Another point in Eve’s behalf, God did not tell her not to eat of the tree, He told Adam. We can see this because Adam wanted to make sure that she did not eat of the tree, so he added that they were not to even touch the tree, Genesis 2:17, 3:1-3. If Adam had begged God,He. Ight have forgiven Eve, and both would still be alive today, since the only way they would die was to disobey God, Genesis 1:26-28. The earth was to be the home for mankind forever, Psalms 115:16, 37:29, Proverbs 2:21,22, Deuteronomy 32:4, Isaiah 45:18.
Can you imagine how Adam felt when he saw Eve with that fruit, and knew she had eaten it?? His heart must have fell to his feet, because he knew it meant their death, because Adam could not bear the thought of living without Eve. Even though Adam had lived for years, he was still like a child in many ways, because there was not the things we have now. If you gave a little puppy to your young child, could you, in any possible way convince him, or her that you were going to take away this puppy, but you will get another one for them, that they will love just as much. Adam must have thought the same way. Adam should have trusted God more, He might have forgiven Eve, had Adam interceded for her.
God definitely did not know that they would rebell against Him, but of course He knew they might, so He probably talked this over with Jesus, and Jesus probably said that if they did sin against God, he would give his life as a Corresponding Ransom, so their descendants would not all be lost.
There are several reasons to believe that God did not know that Adam and Eve would rebell. If God had already knew that they would rebell, there would be no other way it could be, so it would have been God’s doing, from the first. The same can be said about all people. God has the power to look ahead, but He does not do it, because, if He did people would have the excuse, that God knew the would, so they had no choice.
There are several places where God has written that He felt bad when things went wrong, and that He was hurt, when things happened that He did not want to happen, Genesis 6:6. When God was leading the Israelites, He was hurt, and sometimes angry, when they kept going against what He wanted, Psalms 78:37-41. If God knew they were going to do all the things against Him, why would He be sad, and hurt, and angry, when they did those things???
If you want I will answer the other points later, I know this is long. Agape!!!
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I've written quite a bit on this subject on these forums and I've come to the logical conclusion that I'm talking to the wind. Everyone, believer and unbeliever alike, have formed their opinions on the subject and care little what anyone, perhaps especially myself, have to say about it.

I will answer your questions as best, and as briefly as I can.

God didn't know they were going to eat, or touch, by the way, the fruit of the tree, but I'm pretty sure he knew it was a possibility.

The purpose of the tree was to symbolize Jehovah's sovereignty. It was a reminder to Adam and his offspring, had he not sinned, that for a certain amount of time the Bible calls the seventh day of God's rest, that man needed the wisdom and guidance of their creator until they, like the angels before them, matured to the point where they were aware of this.

What would have happened had they not eaten the fruit? That's the most interesting question you could ask, I personally think. Consider that the angel who had been appointed their protector, later known as Satan, had matured and knew better but still sinned. So eventually what would have happened if we, like David and then Paul alluded to, "entered into God's rest" and then sinned? I would presume that under those circumstances we would individually be destroyed rather than causing the death of all of those who would follow because we would, as a group, know better. For example, Satan sinned but only those angels who followed him are going to be destroyed, not all of them inheriting sin as we did. Of course Satan wasn't the first, nor had he offspring.

Had they not eaten the sacrifice of Christ Jesus wouldn't have been necessary.
Great reply. I always say that when we all get to Heaven, Jesus will be standing in front of the class Christianity 101 with the title "What really happened". But a great take on your part.
 

9-18-1

Active Member
Christians have some pretty strong beliefs concerning Adam and Eve and their role in getting mankind where we are today. How do you view Adam and Eve? As villains? Heros? Something in between? Did God know they were going to eat the forbidden fruit? What was His purpose in putting the tree there in the first place? What would have happened had Adam and Eve never eaten the forbidden fruit? What, if any, role would Jesus Christ have had in the world had the Fall never taken place?

These are just a few of many questions we could consider in talking about the events as recorded in Genesis and which have such a bearing on our lives today. All respectful discussion welcome.

First and foremost we must understand that the books of Moses are Hebrew mythology - that is to say, they are not literal in the sense that these books are intended to impart a literal historical event(s).

Creation (and the life therein) is sustained by a relationship between man and woman - in synthesis this can be viewed as masculine and feminine; seed and womb; phallus and ovum etc.

Adam and Eve are the primordial archetype(s) of this relationship which is captured in the Hebrew name translated as 'GOD': אלהים. This word is a singular composite and can be "read" many ways: when read within itself, it is a combination of 'el' (masc. GOD) and 'elah' (fem. GOD) with a plural ending ''yim': Eloh'yim. It can also be read 'el' (masc. GOD) 'ha' (of the) 'yim (fem. sea/expanse). In any rendering one always finds the principle relationship masculine has with feminine.

It is as such Adam and Eve were made as "one being" (prior to the separation of sexes) made in the image (masc.) and likeness (fem.) of Eloh'yim.

What most "believers" do not understand is Adam and Eve represent the two polarities present within the physical body of any/all beings: whether masculine or feminine by physical sex. In synthesis Adam refers to the brain and Eve refers to the sexual organ.

As such, when Eve (sex) gives the fruit to Adam (brain) they fall. This is an allusion to when sexual lust controls the brain rather than the brain controlling sexual lust. It is for this reason that each individual is his/her own Adam and Eve within themselves. It thus follows that each being carries with them their own "fall".

To export the "fall" to an historical Adam/Eve of the past is nonsense and the same pathology associated with scapegoating - everyone is responsible for his/her own handling of the two polarities, including owning the consequences related to the degree to which they themselves "fell". Similarly, to "blame" the woman (unbeknownst the woman refers to the sexual organ) results in institutions that demoralizes and/or demonizes women. Islam (and to a lesser extent, Christianity) are such institutions.

Taking up the "cross" is an allusion to the restoration of masculine (upright beam) and feminine (horizontal beam) such that they are perfectly united and share one will (equilibrium).

As to whether or not 'GOD' "knew" they would fall - it is not a meaningful question. It is by virtue of the fact that one is in the cycle of birth and death that he/she is in a "fallen" state. One can not achieve liberation unless he/she "learns" what it is that is binding him/her to this cycle of birth/death.

The word used to describe this bind is Satan: written with the following letters and respective corresponding meanings:

Shin: Expression (of)
Tet: Bound (being)
Nun (final): To the Nth Degree

Shin has three vavs: corresponding to the head/heart/sex which are the three centers within which a "bind" can occur: psychological (head), emotional (heart) and/or instinctual/behavioral (sex). This is why Satan begins with shin. Nun (final) represents the same idea behind the event horizon of a black hole wherein the force is so powerful as to not be able to escape. Tet is the serpent that "binds" to its prey by squeezing it. As such 'Satan' are any/all psychological, emotional and/or behavioral "binds" that keep people in a state of suffering/death (ignorance).
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Now you're gettin' somewhere. The tree was just an ordinary tree in the garden with symbolic meaning rather than imbued with any actual knowledge. Since it was a beautiful tree it's thought by modern day scholars to likely have been the pomegranate tree. But no one knows.

It represented their taking it upon themselves to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad, challenging their creator's sovereignty. That's why they became ashamed of being naked. There was nothing to be ashamed about that, that is the way they were created. The knowledge was an intimate knowledge, to experience what it was like to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad.

Let me show you another place in the Bible where this sort of use of the word knowledge is used.

Read Genesis 19:4-5. There, in the KJV, the men of the city want to "get to know" the angels who were visiting with Lot. Well, that don't sound so bad, does it? Except that in the old days this term applied in this context meant literally to get to intimately experience the angels. Now, hold on, that don't sound so nice. Let's check that translation.

The NIV says have sex with them where the KJV said get to know them. (Link)

Now do you get it?



Which they did know because God had told them, and there was no other "good and bad" that they needed to familiarize themselves with at that time.
That's the way I would have approached it myself , but then that would lead into asking an additional set of questions that God subsequently lied in saying that the tree was the tree of Good and Evil when it actually wasn't.

Not to mention the verse saying after the fall of Man that Adam and Eve had become as they are, and cast out.
 
Because it's not rational, given what we know about the history of the Earth and human beings. I know from our previous discussions that being irrational is no deterrent to belief for you--but I still find it sad.

Wait a second......how does "given what we know about human beings and the history of earth" EQUEL that adam/eve wer not real people? You need to be rational here by answering all these questions. Rationality answers everything.

By the time we get to Noah, we may be talking about a real person,

The book of genesis is one mini book written likely by one author. Why would the author arbitrarily make adam and eve mythical people, along with there babies, right down to Noah and then all of a sudden, ABRUPTLY make noah and everyone else a real human? Lol. And you say im not rational? :cool::)

There is nothing in the stories to indicate in its literary style that shows adam to noah are myth, but noah to everyone else is real. I mean, i dont understand why its EASY for you to believe noah and say abraham wer real, but its HARD for you to believe adam and cain wer not.

You gotta get off that wikipidea, its suducing your mind. No wonder China censors it out :D

although the story of the flood is obviously highly embellished and impossible to interpret literally. As an instructive and cautionary tale, however, the story of Noah finds its rightful place in the Holy Bible.

Hold on for a second....how can you say in the same breath that the bible is embellished in spots then say its holy?

Heck, the whole book of Job is basically a combination of two separate poetic tales that teach us some things about God and man and their relationship--even though Job himself was merely a literary device.

Job didnt exist either? God is mentioned in the book, does this mean God is myth too? Mayby God is a parable in himself, huh? :p

Most of those people probably existed.

"Probably"? It sounds like wikipidea is confusing you. Like paul says "who has bewitched you?".

Well, some of the genealogies contradict, so we know they can't all be literally true. But there is some roughly accurate history in there too.

Im sure if you wanted to fish for contradictions you could read them into anything.

Fairy tales illustrate truths that might be more difficult to understand if they weren't couched in familiar terms--especially those concerning spiritual matters. When Jesus told the parable of the sower, who sowed seeds on a path, on rocky ground, among the thorns, and on fertile ground, He wasn't telling a "true" story--but He was telling the truth. It's a truth that is revisited on these forums, as I sow these seeds of wisdom among you. Some are trod out by the sheer numbers of competing nonsense, some are rejected by those who are not ready to learn, and some are choked out by people who would rather do the teaching than the learning.

Actually, the sower on different soils is not a mythical thing. Thats a very NATURAL thing to happen. So, jesus did use real down to earth stuff to compare the kingdom to.

I just hope that somewhere out there, some fertile ground receives them and they help someone grow.

Personally, whatever one believes about this ITS NOT going to make them grow. If i believe adam and eve are myth, how does that make me grow? No mental assent to any view makes anyone grow. Its how you LIVE your PRACTICAL life that makes you grow.

So, that said, why am i debating whether adam was myth or not? 2 reasons, first its just an interesting subject and 2, it leads to other implications one way or the other if there myth or real.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Common Sense would tell a person that God forewarn Adam about the tree of good and evil.
Genesis 2:17

The sin of Adams was not because Adam taken of the tree of good and evil, which Adam did not take, It was Eve who took of the tree of good and evil and then gave to Adam, it was the woman Eve who took of the tree of good and evil and not Adam.
Genesis 3:6.

Adams sin was because of his disobedience to God.
Adam chosen to listen to Eve instead of God.
It was Eve who was in the disobedience to God and not Adam.
As for Eve she chosen to listen to the serpent instead of God.

Adam and Eve were not the first male and female to be created.
There's the 6 day creation of male and female.
God created male and female on the 6 day
Genesis 1:26-31.
And then God rested on the 7th day
Genesis 2:2
And then on the 8th day God created Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:7,21
 
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Earthling

David Henson
That's the way I would have approached it myself , but then that would lead into asking an additional set of questions that God subsequently lied in saying that the tree was the tree of Good and Evil when it actually wasn't.

But doesn't say that. It says "the knowledge of good and bad." Genesis 2:9

Not to mention the verse saying after the fall of Man that Adam and Eve had become as they are, and cast out.

I don't understand why that would be problematic.
 

Earthling

David Henson
That may be, but only one of us is right--and all the evidence of history, biology, geography, anthropology and reason is in my corner.

You sure about that? Doesn't that just mean that you are a prophet of those? You can't have two masters and it seems to me that all you are doing is sacrificing truth for consensus at the least and at the worst, examination, speculation. History is always inaccurate, biology, geography, anthropology are all infants.

"To each his own" only applies in matters where there is room for a legitimate difference of opinion. Where evidence and reason dictate a conclusion, one is not free to hold to an irrational opinion. As rational beings, we have a responsibility to hold rational beliefs.

And we always have, ever changing and correcting, each generation claiming it's rational beliefs true until the next generation makes a laughing stock of the former. Like fashion.

I definitely trust you on that. Some are created to understand, and some are not. Jesus said, "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear!" at least six times in the Gospels--usually when delivering a truth by parable. Clearly, some don't have ears to hear them and understand their truth.

Yes, he did. And he also said Adam and Eve were created.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't understand why that would be problematic.
It problematic because the popular implication is that Adam and Eve were not privy to what exactly good and evil was suggesting they could not distinguish or identify it.

It was until after they have eaten of the tree they then had their eyes opened and realized what good and evil was, introducing original sin for which they were cursed by God and cast out of the garden blocked by a cherubim with a flaming sword.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
To me, Eve is a hero and what she did was the greatest gift to humanity. She vanished all the ''if''s and ''but''s. She vanished a fake reality that was hanging by a thread. She joined the real world and said ''bring it on''. Just for Eve, I am proud I am christian. In my opinion :)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
If the one who created you and gave you so many good things and tells you not to do something, your conscious would bother you and as you disobey, you should know you are disobedient. You are then wrong. Doing bad.
I believe you're oversimplifying. How did Adam and Eve know that the things they had in the Garden were "good"? Sunshine and blue sky and clear streams, all kinds of vegetation, all kinds of animal life with every kind living peacefully together, no illness, no pain, no struggles. It wasn't "good" to them. It was the norm! They had nothing with which to compare it. It sounds to me like you're just repeating something you've been told ever since you were a child, and aren't even stopping to think what you're saying.

And if they did already know the difference between good and evil, what in the world do you think the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was even there for? Why was it called by a name that meant nothing?
 

syo

Well-Known Member
Most christians I know hate Eve. And they see the world she gave us mundane. It's sad.
 
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