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Is all of existence proof of God's existence?

dfnj

Well-Known Member
For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality. There is no device we can use to measure our feelings about reality. Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not. For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God. Any other words we used to represent reality, whether it is sets of mathematics or waxing poetics, all fall short and are incomplete representations of something always beyond simple representations. Reality is always much bigger than any words we use to talk about it. God is the only word with the representational power to accurately reflect the meaning behind the most deeply profound experience some theists have when they experience reality. So for theist, God not only exists, because reality exists, but God is the only fully meaningful explanation for what we experience as reality.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath.
and none believers have belief only those things they CAN measure

God and spirit cannot be measured
all you CAN do is think about it
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
For many theists, their belief in God is based on all of reality being evidence for the existence of God. Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement. And that one single measurement is an appreciation of everything in reality. There is nothing objective about how we feel about reality. There is no device we can use to measure our feelings about reality. Either we appreciate reality as being something profound and meaningful, or, we do not. For people who appreciate reality as being deeply profound and meaningful in their life, the measure of all reality can only be accurately and completely represented by one and only one word. And that word is God. Any other words we used to represent reality, whether it is sets of mathematics or waxing poetics, all fall short and are incomplete representations of something always beyond simple representations. Reality is always much bigger than any words we use to talk about it. God is the only word with the representational power to accurately reflect the meaning behind the most deeply profound experience some theists have when they experience reality. So for theist, God not only exists, because reality exists, but God is the only fully meaningful explanation for what we experience as reality.


God is reality. Just one of many terms for it.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Why stop at God? Why not include Cthulhu, and Yog-Sothoth?
What about Azathoth, whose dreams are our reality?
indeed.....and it is written....
ye ARE gods

I wanna join up
but I have to be sure of my mind and heart.....first
 

DustyFeet

पैर है| outlaw kosher care-bear | Tribe of Dan
Forget science. Forget scientific method. Theists are not concerned with devices used to take simple measurements of reality. Theists are only concerned with measuring everything all at once in one breath. Theists are mostly concerned with talking about one single measurement.

current working theory on the rules of material vs. spiritual:


"things" in the material world are:
measurable
predictable
degrade over time

"things" in the spiritual world are:
not measurable
unpredictable
do not always degrade over time

approaching spiritual phenomenon from a material perspective... not productive

IMHO no offense intended please forgive me and all that and a bag of honey mustard pretzels :)

examples of material "things"
a chair
my lunch
toenails

examples of spiritual "things"
trust ( aka **faith** )
love
fear
understanding
knowledge
gratitude
happiness
justice
fairness
friendship
restraint
modesty
commitment
beauty

virtually all the most important "things"
the "things" we all chase
the "things" we love about movies, books, and poetry
the "things" we appreciate in each other

all spiritual... not measured in one breath

science operates in the material world via natural laws
these laws are exploited via technology
behold the internet
science works because the material world is predictable
behold the scientific method

i propose that the scientific method renders unpredictable results when attempting to study and "understand" spiritual phenomenon

with much love and great respect,

-DF-

edit: added **faith** to list
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No. So circular an argument it bites you in the butt.

Forget science, forget the scientific method?!?!?! This further depletes your argument to zero.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
help me understand... please?

I am not sure I could add much, but maybe . . .

The nature of our physical existence is as it it is, and yes it reflects the attributes of God, but not our own justification for God. The question from the human perspective is, of course, which God do want to justify as existing based on the nature of our physical existence from the human perspective?

Science and the scientific method is how humanity understands Creation and the attributes of God in our physical existence, but it is not how nor the why we believe in God. The problem with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is they are grounded in ancient scripture, the culture of different religions, and ancient concepts of God, ie Genesis, not compatible with science, and the nature of our physical existence as it is.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
nay......think about it

and the creation existed before your thought and feeling

it will exist long after you are gone

Spirit however....might prove eternal

but again....you have to think about it

But how does it exist outside your thoughts? You can claim it does, but if it is true, like I said, you would have to think into existence.

But even thinking about it doesnt make it true
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
But how does it exist outside your thoughts?
all of reality exists outside my thoughts

the sun will rise tomorrow

I might not.....I'm getting old

but the sun will come up.....with or without me

Does God exist....yeah I THINK so

and does that reality need the nod of my head?......no
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
all of reality exists outside my thoughts

the sun will rise tomorrow

I might not.....I'm getting old

but the sun will come up.....with or without me

Does God exist....yeah I THINK so

and does that reality need the nod of my head?......no

Take the sun rise. It exist outside you but it is not god. Unless you are a pantheist, it isn't god. Saying it is creation does not make it so. There is nothing in the sun rising that points to a creator without your thought in the matter. Our perceptions and ways of life develop as we age.

If you had no preknowledge, culture influence, assumptions based on healthy bias, and/or believing what you are told, our concept and origin of the "explanation of reality " (In this case god) is all from your mind.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There is nothing in the sun rising that points to a creator
science!.....as I point my index to the ceiling

cause and effect is an absolute.....so I believe
and science is thought play without that foundation

so....the sun as creation?.....yeah
and substance as dead material does not beget more of the same

science would have you believe.....and I do....
ALL of this reality came from one location

and nothing moves without Something to set it into motion

can I explain to you the act of creation?......not yet
I will be asking God.....How did you do that?

if my frame of mind and heart display the ability to receive....
then maybe I will fulfill that scripture....
ye ARE gods
 
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