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Does the Bible mention Islam?

Is Islam mentioned in the Bible


  • Total voters
    48

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Consequently people everywhere have lost sight of God and His purpose for humanity.
Sadly, I do not think religious beleivers 'in this age' ever knew what that purpose was. Instead, they are lost in a morass of doctrines and dogmas, believing that getting 'saved' from an original sin that never even existed is the purpose of religion, for example.

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 215
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Sadly, I do not think religious beleivers 'in this age' ever knew what that purpose was. Instead, they are lost in a morass of doctrines and dogmas, believing that getting 'saved' from an original sin that never even existed is the purpose of religion, for example.

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 215

I can only judge on a case by case basis. Baha'is have a world embracing view consistent with God's love for all humanity and see how that plan has unfolded in all cultures to bring us to this point in history. Some Christians engage well with such a view. Some Christians posting here are Islamophobic and simply want a platform to vent their prejudices.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I can only judge on a case by case basis. Baha'is have a world embracing view consistent with God's love for all humanity and see how that plan has unfolded in all cultures to bring us to this point in history. Some Christians engage well with such a view. Some Christians posting here are Islamophobic and simply want a platform to vent their prejudices.
I do not judge anyone. Only God can judge.

But I do point out what I see and what I see is that most Christians are waiting for the same Jesus to return, and even those who gave up waiting believe that Jesus is "the only way." It is virtually impossible for them to ever recognize Baha'u'llah with a belief like that.... The question then becomes: Does that even matter? I think Baha'u'llah answered that question many times. For example:

“The One true God beareth Me witness, and His creatures will testify, that not for a moment did I allow Myself to be hidden from the eyes of men, nor did I consent to shield My person from their injury. Before the face of all men I have arisen, and bidden them fulfil My pleasure. My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286



.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Then Christianity has become a religion that does not even remotely resemble what Christ taught. Many of the Christians I talk to on this forum struggle with the basics of their own religion, let alone that of another. Their knowledge of Islam is based on little more that prejudice and bigotry, which is a shame because this is a useful space to learn. Consequently people everywhere have lost sight of God and His purpose for humanity. Its as if they are wandering in the paths of delusion bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes or hear His melody with their own ears.

Learning about Islam to one who lives by the strictures and tenants of the Gospels
is equivalent to a practicing Old Testament Jew learning about Canaanite religion.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It seems clear enough that its through BOTH grace AND works we are saved.
James 2:14-26

If a tree bears no fruit, what good is it?
Matthew 7:16-20

It is also the responsibility of any sincere follower of Christ to properly understand the nature of Islam before making judgement as if falsely judge a true Messenger of God, then that judgemental will be on us.
Matthew 7:1-4

If we are sincere and seek the truth, then the truth shall set us free.
Matthew 7:7-8
John 8:32

The purpose of this thread is to better understand Islam in both its positive and negative aspects. Many of the principles apply to Christianity too.
I know what evangelical Christians mean by "saved" and it is not "by works". But there definition is I'm sure different than what Baha'is say it is. So exactly what do Baha'i believe that the NT means by the word "saved"?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
No the Quran did not 'reveal newer social laws'. The Quran even in 5:47 says that we can judge with the Gospel.

The Quran is more for the Arabs, the Gospel more for the Gentiles, the Tora more for the Israelites. God already knew that we human beings would create nationalism. The Quran clearly says that God wants us to be one nation though.
The other factor about new "social" laws is that Baha'is need there to be a progression between the different religions. New laws are needed for the more advanced society. That kind of implies that the laws of the older religions should no longer work. But new social laws seem to evolve within and without religion, so that even the oldest religions have people that live by rules and moral codes from their religion and also by modern social norms of the society. I've asked Baha'is what the "new" social laws were that Jesus brought... I don't remember them saying any. Even if there is, they are all eroded away by the social norms of modern society.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Thanks for sharing that timeline. I found it interesting to note that there was a widespread Messianic prediction in 1840 and that the Jews return to Zion was supported in 1844. From that website...

1840 A widespread Messianic prediction sparks a renewed interest in immigration to EretzYisrael (KolHator). This prediction is circulated in the Balkans and in Eastern Europe. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1034; Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.)

1840 Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai (1798-1878) begins spreading his belief that this is the time of the Messiah. He believes that settling the land of Israel will hasten the coming of the Redemption. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1034)

1843 Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai publishes Minchat Yehuda (Yehuda’s Offering). In the book he elaborates on the need for human initiatives, which will hurry the coming of the Redemption.

1844 The Christadelphians, a Christian Zionist group, is founded in England. It supports the Jews’ return to Zion. The group supports the Hibbat Zion movement, which assists the Jews in their efforts to resettle the Holy Land. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1153)

Baha’is believe that the proclamation of the Bab in 1844 signalized the beginning of the Messianic era.

So what happened after 1844 that dissipated the Messianic hopes of the Jews?
I wonder why Jews expected something to happen at that time? I know Baha'is use Daniel and Revelation to get to 1844, but Jews would only have Daniel to work with. I'd imagine there is some ambiguity in the details, or else nobody would be able to deny that the "return of Christ" was scheduled to happen in 1844. I still wonder why Baha'u'llah's declaration date isn't more prominent and more important. Other than announcing that Baha'u'llah was coming, The Bab is kind of just a footnote.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I wonder why Jews expected something to happen at that time? I know Baha'is use Daniel and Revelation to get to 1844, but Jews would only have Daniel to work with. I'd imagine there is some ambiguity in the details, or else nobody would be able to deny that the "return of Christ" was scheduled to happen in 1844. I still wonder why Baha'u'llah's declaration date isn't more prominent and more important. Other than announcing that Baha'u'llah was coming, The Bab is kind of just a footnote.
The Bab was not a footnote, He was a Manifestation of God. The date of the return of Christ is 1844 because the Bab was the first of the Twin Manifestations of God who brought back the Christ Spirit and this ushered in the new cycle of religion called the Bahai Cycle, also called the Cycle of fulfillment, because it was the Cycle in which all the prophecies of the Adamic Cycle would be fulfilled.

I do not know why the Jews were expecting the Messiah around 1840-1843, but if I have time I might research that.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
The Bab was not a footnote, He was a Manifestation of God. The date of the return of Christ is 1844 because the Bab was the first of the Twin Manifestations of God who brought back the Christ Spirit and this ushered in the new cycle of religion called the Bahai Cycle, also called the Cycle of fulfillment, because it was the Cycle in which all the prophecies of the Adamic Cycle would be fulfilled.

I do not know why the Jews were expecting the Messiah around 1840-1843, but if I have time I might research that.

This silly 1844 stuff reminds me of Adventist theology.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This silly 1844 stuff reminds me of Adventist theology.
And there is a good reason for that.

Did You Miss the Return of Christ?

The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith.

In the first decades of the 19th century, religious fervor overtook Christians, who believed that the Second Advent was approaching. Dubbed by the Seventh-day Adventist Leroy Froom as one of the greatest and most dramatic events in the history of the world, the expectation of the return of Christ literally swept the world. Many prominent figures embracing a cross-section of Christian denominations and including distinguished leaders and scholars were convinced that the Redeemer would appear between 1843 and 1845.

“So real was the hope of the Advent,” wrote Henry James Forman in The Story of Prophecy, “people were actually taking almost violent measures for it. It was the nineteenth century, yet the shooting stars of the year 1833, and the … halo-like rings around the sun in 1843, were objects of the most awesome speculation and discussion.”

As the gospel of a coming Kingdom swept through Asia, India, Europe and America, the Advent was preached to peasants, pashas, princes, bishops, priests, kings, American presidents and even the Congress of the United States. Representative of the fervor of the times was Joseph Wolff, amongst others, who spread the Advent doctrine to over 20 countries in the Middle East and Asia. In the northeastern United States, William Miller gave 4,500 lectures to over half a million people at a time when the population of the region approximated six million. At the peak of the advent fervor, more than a thousand clergymen could be found preaching the imminent return of Christ. By May of 1844 five million copies of Adventist publications had been distributed. Tens of thousands of anxious Christians scanned the skies for Christ’s descent on a cloud. Many of them sold their homes and possessions, forgave debts, restored stolen property, cashed out their bank accounts, gave away worldly goods, and donned ascension robes.

The excitement arose from Biblical prophecies, and the time calculations that many theologians, scholars and preachers made from those prophecies. For example, the disciples had asked Christ for a sign of his coming. As He sat upon the Mount of Olives the evening before His crucifixion, He replied:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place. – Mathew 14:15.

As if biblical prophecies had been unsealed as a sign of the Last Day (Daniel 12:8), 19th-century Christian scholars, clergymen and eventually the faithful realized that the sanctuary would be cleansed after 2,300 days (Daniel 8:13-14). Because they understood days to represent years in Biblical prophecy (Ezekiel 4:6), they agreed that the starting point of this prophecy was an edict issued by Artaxerxes for the restoration of the Jewish temple or sanctuary in 457 BC. Depending on how they counted the transitional year from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D., their conclusion was that the Second Advent would occur between 1843 and 1844.

Mostly, though, Daniel’s prophecy of the First Advent had excited their expectations. Daniel had foretold 70 weeks for the Jewish people to make an end to their abominations and accept their Messiah (Daniel 9:24). In the interim (Daniel 9:25-27), the restoration of Jewish polity and the building of their temple would require 7 weeks, or 49 years. This period was to be followed by threescore and 2 weeks, or 434 years, until the start of the final week during which the Messiah (Christ) would confirm the covenant. Upon His crucifixion, Christ was 33 years of age. Little wonder, then, that the conviction of a Second Advent was so widespread in the early decades of the 19th Century; for 33 + 457 = 490 years or 70 weeks—which also pointed directly at the year 1844.

In 1844, the Bab declared himself to be the inaugurator of the long-promised kingdom of God on Earth.

Baha’is believe that the Bab’s coming, followed by the advent of Baha’u’llah and the establishment of the Baha’i Faith, renewed the sanctuary of the religion of God for the betterment of humanity:

The Revelation proclaimed by Baha’u’llah, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. The mission of the Founder of their Faith, they conceive it to be to proclaim that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is continuous and progressive, that the Founders of all past religions, though different in the non-essential aspects of their teachings, “abide in the same Tabernacle, soar in the same heaven, are seated upon the same throne, utter the same speech and proclaim the same Faith…”

The Forerunner of the Faith was Mirza Ali-Muhammad of Shiraz, known as the Bab (The Gate) Who proclaimed on May 23, 1844, His twofold mission as an independent Manifestation of God and Herald of One greater than Himself, Who would inaugurate a new and unprecedented era in the religious history of mankind…

The Founder of the Faith was Baha’u’llah (Glory of God), Whose advent the Bab had foretold. He declared His mission in 1863 while an exile in Baghdad. He subsequently formulated the principles of that new and divine civilization which by His advent He claimed to have inaugurated. – Shoghi Effendi, The Baha’i Faith – The World Religion: A Summary of Its Aims, Teachings and History.

In the century and a half since the Bab’s declaration, peoples of diverse cultures, races, religions and classes around the world have embraced the Baha’i Faith and its teachings of peace and unity. Baha’is believe that the advent of the Bab and Baha’u’llah signalize the promised return of all the prophets.

If the Christian world has largely missed Christ’s return because outwardly the physical signs in the heavens have not appeared, Baha’is believe that the Bab and Baha’u’llah have fulfilled the Old and New Testament prophecies, and that, as Mathew 7:16 says, you can recognize them by their fruits.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I don't think so. The Quran mentions the Old Testament often though. Not surprising, since Judaism predates Islam.

Quote - "Our bible IS the wind." Statement by an anonymous Native woman."
It's a trend these days to give "native" people more credence and wisdom than
Westerners ought to. In the West our philosophies and achievements came from
Jerusalem, Athens and Rome, and the fruits of the Enlightenment, the scientific
and industrial revolutions and our liberal democracy.
Ask any "native" person if they want to roam around clubbing small animals (and
each other) or join this revolution and you will see how "native" they chose to be.

And "the wind" is pretty vacuous. Just as vacuous as Dylan's "the answer is
blowing in the wind" lyric. Essentially you as saying there's no answer, no truth
at all.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Learning about Islam to one who lives by the strictures and tenants of the Gospels
is equivalent to a practicing Old Testament Jew learning about Canaanite religion.

Not really.

It is true that Muhammad has more similarities to Moses and Kind David in the Hebrew Bible than Christ in the New Testament. Jesus taught Jews who had 1 1/2 thousand years experience of Mosaic law. Muhammad taught barbaric Arab tribesman who were pagans and had little experience of Judeo-Christianity.

By the time Muhammad had his experience of the angel Gabriel in the cave of Hira in 610 Christianity had already become corrupt. Muhammad had the foresight to correct some of the fundamental errors of Christianity at that stage.

Studying and appreciate Islam can be done without becoming a Muslim or even abandoning Christianity. It is to understand God's love for ALL humanity and why a new monotheistic religion was necessary in addition to Judaism, Zoroastrianism and Christianity.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I know what evangelical Christians mean by "saved" and it is not "by works". But there definition is I'm sure different than what Baha'is say it is. So exactly what do Baha'i believe that the NT means by the word "saved"?

To be saved is to draw near to God as opposed to seperation from Him. In that sense heaven and hell are states of being in both this world and the next. The Divine Messengers of God are the best and safest path to God. In that sense 'I AM, the way' (John 14:6, Exodus 3:14).
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think so. The Quran mentions the Old Testament often though. Not surprising, since Judaism predates Islam.

The Hebrew Bible does not mention 'Christianity' either, yet Christians see Christianity all over the Hebrew Bible. They see over 300 prophetic verses referring to Jesus but the name Jesus isn't directly mentioned either.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Jesus and Mohammad may have not been mentioned in Hebrew Bible but I think Bahaullah is surely prophesied in Hebrew Bible. What do you think? - Fulfilling the prophecies! :D
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus and Mohammad may have not been mentioned in Hebrew Bible but I think Bahasullah is surely prophesied in Hebrew Bible. What do you think? - Fulfilling the prophecies! :D

Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all appear in the Hebrew Scriptures, all in the same way. The metaphor needs to be decoded. Each Messenger that comes is the new code breaker. :D:)

Regards Tony
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Not really.

It is true that Muhammad has more similarities to Moses and Kind David in the Hebrew Bible than Christ in the New Testament. Jesus taught Jews who had 1 1/2 thousand years experience of Mosaic law. Muhammad taught barbaric Arab tribesman who were pagans and had little experience of Judeo-Christianity.

By the time Muhammad had his experience of the angel Gabriel in the cave of Hira in 610 Christianity had already become corrupt. Muhammad had the foresight to correct some of the fundamental errors of Christianity at that stage.

Studying and appreciate Islam can be done without becoming a Muslim or even abandoning Christianity. It is to understand God's love for ALL humanity and why a new monotheistic religion was necessary in addition to Judaism, Zoroastrianism and Christianity.

King David is seen very much as an Old Testament person. But in strange ways he, like Moses
and many others, were more New Testament.
David foresaw the suffering Messiah (Psalm 22 and 69 for example)
David was a "type" or figure of the Rejected and Reigning King.
David was not a Levite, did not officiate in temple duties and saw mercy as
being more important than sacrifices.

Please don't equate Mohamed with Jesus. There's tons of web sites which
detail the differences between these two men. Google them.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Jesus and Mohammad may have not been mentioned in Hebrew Bible but I think Bahasullah is surely prophesied in Hebrew Bible. What do you think? - Fulfilling the prophecies! :D

Yes, the name "Jesus" was not mentioned in the Old Testament.
Calling the prophesied Messiah "Jesus" would lead to millions of
boys being called Jesus.
Jesus is called the lamb of God, the Redeemer, the lion of Judah,
Emmanuel, Messiah, the anointed one and a few dozen other
names.
 
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