Is Genesis True?

[Windwalker]

The first couple chapters of the book of Genesis describe the Fall of man from paradise, a state of unity and eternal life with God, to a state of separation, pain, loss, suffering, and death. While it is obvious to most modern readers, and especially those with any modest degree of valid scientific knowledge that the details of the story are not factual historically nor scientifically, is the story true nonetheless? Is there a real truth to the underlying theme portrayed through these symbolic characters, Adam and Eve, that is captured faithfully in the myth of the Garden of Eden?

 

[JJ50]

I think Genesis, like much of the Bible, is a work of fiction.

 

[Thief]

most people see Genesis as an explanation for why we die

I believe we were never meant to live forever....in flesh

and the ideal living conditions of Adam and Eve were a petri dish
having served it's purpose
it was dismantled

 

[Thief]

someone had to be first to walk with God

that would be Adam

 

[Windwalker]

I think Genesis, like much of the Bible, is a work of fiction.

So there is no symbolic truth because it's not scientifically factual? Could the author(s) have been trying to express how they viewed their spiritual states as human beings through these made-up characters?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The first couple chapters of the book of Genesis describe the Fall of man from paradise, a state of unity and eternal life with God, to a state of separation, pain, loss, suffering, and death. While it is obvious to most modern readers, and especially those with any modest degree of valid scientific knowledge that the details of the story are not factual historically nor scientifically, is the story true nonetheless? Is there a real truth to the underlying theme portrayed through these symbolic characters, Adam and Eve, that is captured faithfully in the myth of the Garden of Eden?

Even if you take it to be symbolic, what is it symbolic of? Do you really believe there was a time when human beings could have been considered "perfect" and without moral/emotional/physical flaw? I guess what I am asking is... what state of humanity did we "fall" from that you consider would be symbolized by such a story?

 

[Windwalker]

Even if you take it to be symbolic, what is it symbolic of?

The condition of separation from our divine Source. We experience what Plotinus captured well much later on when he said, "Mankind is poised midway between the gods and the beasts." We are aware of the higher, divine mind, and the lower beasts of field, and here we are stuck between, seemingly trapped in limbo or purgatory, as it were.

Do you really believe there was a time when human beings could have been considered "perfect" and without moral/emotional/physical flaw? I guess what I am asking is... what state of humanity did we "fall" from that you consider would be symbolized by such a story?

The state we "fell" from would be that of the divine Source that can be experienced within us, but in often fleeting glimpses. The divine Perfection, is that of spiritual reality, not a "perfect man", meaning no mistakes or such, no moles, no plantar fasciitis, etc. It's symbolic about the condition of the state of being, which Paul captured when he said, "That which I would do, that thing I do not, and that which I would not do, that thing I do!". Why are we attracted to death, when the divine Light lives within us? That sort of thing.

 

[Polymath257]

So there is no symbolic truth because it's not scientifically factual? Could the author(s) have been trying to express how they viewed their spiritual states as human beings through these made-up characters?

What is 'symbolic truth'? Isn't it just another way to say you have a moving story?

 

[Windwalker]

What is 'symbolic truth'? Isn't it just another way to say you have a moving story?

No. A moving story would be that of a lost dog finding it's way home to little Bobby who loved Mittens so much and thought he'd lost him forever. That's emotionalism. By symbolic truth, it means something far deeper, that captures the whole state of affairs of being human in a simple story. Symbolic truth is representative of a higher understanding. It's a finger pointing to the moon that takes the intangible and gives it form to look at and ponder.

 

[Thief]

Why are we attracted to death,

to conquer death....you have to die

no exceptions......but varied results

 

[Polymath257]

No. A moving story would be that of a lost dog finding it's way home to little Bobby who loved Mittens so much and thought he'd lost him forever. That's emotionalism. By symbolic truth, it means something far deeper, that captures the whole state of affairs of being human in a simple story. Symbolic truth is representative of a higher understanding. It's a finger pointing to the moon that takes the intangible and gives it form to look at and ponder.

Hmmm....I guess I see it as another type of moving story. One with a bit more depth. Still fiction.

/E: Good literature always deals with fundamental aspects of the human condition.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The condition of separation from our divine Source. We experience what Plotinus captured well much later on when he said, "Mankind is poised midway between the gods and the beasts." We are aware of the higher, divine mind, and the lower beasts of field, and here we are stuck between, seemingly trapped in limbo or purgatory, as it were.


The state we "fell" from would be that of the divine Source that can be experienced within us, but in often fleeting glimpses. The divine Perfection, is that of spiritual reality, not a "perfect man", meaning no mistakes or such, no moles, no plantar fasciitis, etc. It's symbolic about the condition of the state of being, which Paul captured when he said, "That which I would do, that thing I do not, and that which I would not do, that thing I do!". Why are we attracted to death, when the divine Light lives within us? That sort of thing.

I suppose that I assumed that admitting the genesis account was pure symbolism would put one in the position of taking reality for what it is, and not assigning "divinity" to human beings in the first place.

I feel that "divinity" is not well defined. We could say that humans "have" it - but we defined it, and assume it is some higher state of being (fundamentally). So all we're really doing when we say "humans are divine" (to any degree) is assigning ourselves an attribute that puts us above other things. Which sounds mostly like arrogance to me.

In my opinion, arrogance itself is a fall from a (subjectively, I admit) better state. And so... for humans to consider themselves divine is, in itself, a "fall" from the more graceful position of humility.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's a mythology that I don't subscribe to.

 

[Windwalker]

Hmmm....I guess I see it as another type of moving story. One with a bit more depth. Still fiction.

I don't care for the word "moving", because that always implies emotionalism. Spiritual truth is experientially different than emotionalism. Emotions being moved or stirred, may or may not accompany spiritual realizations. In fact, the highest states of spiritual awareness are completely beyond emotions.

 

[Thief]

It's a mythology that I don't subscribe to.

and your signature is for what?

 

[Thief]

I don't care for the word "moving", because that always implies emotionalism. Spiritual truth is experientially different than emotionalism. Emotions being moved or stirred, may or may not accompany spiritual realizations. In fact, the highest states of spiritual awareness are completely beyond emotions.

the unbridled heart is fickle
you may quote me

a mind without a heart.....and you are one of the Borg ( Star Trek)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The first couple chapters of the book of Genesis describe the Fall of man from paradise, a state of unity and eternal life with God, to a state of separation, pain, loss, suffering, and death. While it is obvious to most modern readers, and especially those with any modest degree of valid scientific knowledge that the details of the story are not factual historically nor scientifically, is the story true nonetheless? Is there a real truth to the underlying theme portrayed through these symbolic characters, Adam and Eve, that is captured faithfully in the myth of the Garden of Eden?

Truth is dependent on the person. It doesn't need to be historically and scientifically proven to find truth in it. Why does there need to be?

 

[Thief]

Truth is dependent on the person.

nay

you can believe anything you want
doesn't mean it's true

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

and your signature is for what?

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

[WalterTrull]

I think that when the bible folk saw something or became aware of something not having the words or even the language to communicate the knowledge, they resorted to parable and metaphor. Sometimes reading or hearing those, I think: "Oh Hey!"