Thousand oaks shooting

[Curious George]

Well, another mass shooting. Thousand Oaks, California. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Is there some reason why we keep producing mass murderers?

 

[suncowiam]

Well, another mass shooting. Thousand Oaks, California. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Is there some reason why we keep producing mass murderers?

Yes, because people have access to mass murder weapons.

People can not actually murder in masses outside of serial killing which requires finesse and secrecy.

US likes to blame mental illness, as if US is the only nation with severe mental illness.

Do we need to start another debate as to how other countries are much better with mass murder statistics compared to US?

One might argue, why California or Chicago does so poorly even with its strict laws, but the answer is simple. If it cant control its borders as to how weapons enter the legislated areas, then those laws are futile. However, countries that can control its borders and control that actual weapons within have much better success at doing so.

 

[Sunstone]

"Strict gun laws" is an oxymoron in America

 

[Estro Felino]

Is there some reason why we keep producing mass murderers?

I have no idea...really....
I wreck my brain but I can't figure out why

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm an advocate for more restrictive gun laws. They clearly helped us in Australia.
But having said that, I think there's much more at play, and can only assume there is a strong cultural aspect to this.

 

[Curious George]

Yes, because people have access to mass murder weapons.

People can not actually murder in masses outside of serial killing which requires finesse and secrecy.

US likes to blame mental illness, as if US is the only nation with severe mental illness.

Do we need to start another debate as to how other countries are much better with mass murder statistics compared to US?

One might argue, why California or Chicago does so poorly even with its strict laws, but the answer is simple. If it cant control its borders as to how weapons enter the legislated areas, then those laws are futile. However, countries that can control its borders and control that actual weapons within have much better success at doing so.

Except that he bought his weapon legally in California. It is hardly about California regulating its borders as weapons enter from other less restricted areas.

Moreover, there are plenty of ways a person can engage in mass killing beyond guns. I am not so confident that guns are the problem. Perhaps if you said gun culture, I might think the idea was worth exploring. But, just blaming guns doesn't work.

 

[Curious George]

I have no idea...really....
I wreck my brain but I can't figure out why

When I see that i think wow, only a couple more per 100k than places that have virtually outlawed guns, and that includes any gun deaths and only gun deaths.

 

[Curious George]

I'm an advocate for more restrictive gun laws. They clearly helped us in Australia.
But having said that, I think there's much more at play, and can only assume there is a strong cultural aspect to this.

I can only imagine that it is a cultural thing. Not that other countries are exempt from this cultural thing-there see to be mass killings the around the world. It does seem like we have more and more in the U.S. and despite decreases in crime and violence, the U.S. of mass murder seem to increase.

 

[Curious George]

"Strict gun laws" is an oxymoron in America

To be fair, I used strict in relation to other U.S. areas.

 

[Cooky]

"Strict gun laws" is an oxymoron in America

Our laws are much more strict than the Czech Republic, and they have nowhere near the proportions of gun violence that we have here.

...I sometimes wonder why that is.

 

[Cooky]

I can only imagine that it is a cultural thing. Not that other countries are exempt from this cultural thing-there see to be mass killings the around the world. It does seem like we have more and more in the U.S. and despite decreases in crime and violence, the U.S. of mass murder seem to increase.

It has to be the culture. Right?

...But I wonder what about the cultures make them different.

 

[Curious George]

Our laws are much more strict than the Czech Republic, and they have nowhere near the proportions of gun violence that we have here.

...I sometimes wonder why that is.

I am not sure about Czech gun laws. There are certainly instances of countries and areas with more relaxed gun laws and less deaths. It is hard to compare countries though because there are many different variables.

I just wondered why people think the U.S. culture keeps turning out mass murderers.

 

[Jainarayan]

He was a former Marine. He was examined and wrongfully cleared of mental illness. So he was able to legally buy a gun, a handgun. Now it’s coming out he should never have been cleared.

 

[Curious George]

It has to be the culture. Right?

...But I wonder what about the cultures make them different.

I do not know much about modern Czech culture in order to contrast.

I think that news coverage of mass murder, national politics, villification of others, Mental health stigma, prohibitive cost of mental health, parenting, praise of violence in culture, fear mongering, propaganda, just to name a few potential cultural issues.

 

[Jainarayan]

Our laws are much more strict than the Czech Republic, and they have nowhere near the proportions of gun violence that we have here.

...I sometimes wonder why that is.

Relative numbers. What’s the total population of the Czech Republic?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I can only imagine that it is a cultural thing. Not that other countries are exempt from this cultural thing-there see to be mass killings the around the world. It does seem like we have more and more in the U.S. and despite decreases in crime and violence, the U.S. of mass murder seem to increase.

Rightly or wrongly, I'm increasingly starting to think of the US in it's own category.
Similarities amongst other first world nations don't seem to apply as universally to the US.
(not saying that as a positive or negative, it can be both depending on the topic at hand)

It's like some strange new form of American Exceptionalism, but less good.

 

[Curious George]

Rightly or wrongly, I'm increasingly starting to think of the US in it's own category.
Similarities amongst other first world nations don't seem to apply as universally to the US.
(not saying that as a positive or negative, it can be both depending on the topic at hand)

It's like some strange new form of American Exceptionalism, but less good.

I would like to know where the U.S. went off course. In many aspects the U.S. has improved over the years. In other aspects the U.S. has issues that have grown. Do these go hand-in-hand? Is it possible to disentangle the progress with the failure?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I would like to know where the U.S. went off course. In many aspects the U.S. has improved over the years. In other aspects the U.S. has issues that have grown. Do these go hand-in-hand? Is it possible to disentangle the progress with the failure?

It's beyond me.
If it helps, every country is the same in that sense (improvement and issues both evident over time).
You guys just seem to have done it in a unique way.

 

[suncowiam]

Except that he bought his weapon legally in California. It is hardly about California regulating its borders as weapons enter from other less restricted areas.

Moreover, there are plenty of ways a person can engage in mass killing beyond guns. I am not so confident that guns are the problem. Perhaps if you said gun culture, I might think the idea was worth exploring. But, just blaming guns doesn't work.

Of course, it's gun culture. Guns don't kill people. People being allowed guns due to a pro gun culture, kills people. It's a culture that allows the ease and convenience of owning deadly weapons. Gee, what could possibly happen by doing that?

 

[oldbadger]

Well, another mass shooting.

Yes. Dreadful. They seem to go on and on.....

California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Did the murderer get the gun illegally?

Is there some reason why we keep producing mass murderers?

If guns were as easily available in the UK as in 'strict' California, we would be experiencing similar incident frequencies over here.