Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Faithofchristian]

Christ didn’t write the Apocalypse, it’s been attributed to the Apostle John. I’ve heard so many theories from Christians about what or who they believe 666 to be. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 fits best.

Maybe you should re-read Revelation 1:1 again.
Revelation 1:1---"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

Notice ( The Revelation of Jesus Christ)
( Which God gave unto him) Jesus Christ)

No one said Jesus Christ wrote the book of Revelation, Christ Jesus gave unto John what to write down.

John did the writing, but it was Jesus Christ who gave to John what to write down.

 

[Dawnofhope]

"Loving one" is not in the Arabic Qu'ran.

The gospel affirms that Christ saved the world, the Qu'ran says, "God forbid God have a son" and that the greatest sin is the ascribing of a helper or partner to the one monotheist Allah. Jesus IS GOD.

I agree the exact words ‘Loving One’ are not in the Quran. However the nature of Divine Love has many attributes that are included in the Quran such as forgiveness, affection and compassion.

And ask forgiveness of your Lord and then repent to Him. Indeed, my Lord is Merciful and Affectionate." Qur’an 11:90

And He is the Forgiving, the Affectionate, Qur’an 85:14

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
The Compassionate.
Qur’an 55:1

 

[Dawnofhope]

The gospel affirms that Christ saved the world.

If Christ saved the world then why is it in such a mess and Christianity so divided?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Qu'ran says, "God forbid God have a son" and that the greatest sin is the ascribing of a helper or partner to the one monotheist Allah. Jesus IS GOD.

That is true. G-d did not have a son like you and I would have a son. Jesus is the spiritual ‘Son of God’ as the gospel affirms. The Holy Quran affirms G-d did not have a physical son.

In the sense that Jesus revealed the Gospel and perfectly reflected His Father’s attributes then the Divinity of Christ is affirmed. The Manifestations of God are like perfect mirrors reflecting the light of G-d’s Teachings. However the mirror is not the sun so in that sense not God incarnate as the Quran affirms.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Maybe you should re-read Revelation 1:1 again.
Revelation 1:1---"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

Notice ( The Revelation of Jesus Christ)
( Which God gave unto him) Jesus Christ)

No one said Jesus Christ wrote the book of Revelation, Christ Jesus gave unto John what to write down.

John did the writing, but it was Jesus Christ who gave to John what to write down.

It is true in the generic sense that Jesus or G-d revealed the apocalypse to John who recorded it. Sadly it is also true that whenever most Christian’s interpret the book they either make predictions that don’t come true or sound ridiculous.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

When did I say I haven't studied Greek?

Tell me what I misunderstand about the Qu'ran/Hadith:

1) The Bible is "corrupt". If I gave you a Bible, would you be able to tell me which parts are corrupt and which are without corruption, so I can follow at least some of it, since it is the word of Allah? Can you do this, knowing Greek and Arabic, perhaps?

2) If the Noble Qu'ran is perfect, on stone tablets in Heaven, kept by Allah, why was Allah unable to keep the Bible without corruption? Why didn't Allah keep the Bible safe?

So you know Greek? Or not?

The Quran says in 5:47 that the People of the Gospel should Judge with the Gospel. Why would God ask us to do something if it isn't possible? The Quran in 5:68 says that we should uphold the Tora and the Gospel, else we have no bases, why would God tell us to uphold something which isn't there?!

God managed to protect the Tora for thousands of years. God managed to protect the Psalms for thousands of years. God managed to protect the Gospel for hundreds of years, and confirmed it at the time of Muhammad. God confirmed both the Tora and the Gospel, by name, that they are there, a Guidance and a Light, that we should Judge with it, that we should Uphold them.

Don't waste your time with translations if you want to make claims.
Go and get a copy of the Greek Gospel in the Greek Church, that's the most original that we have. And go get a copy of the Hebrew Tora and Psalms in the Hebrew Synagogue, those are the most original we have. Just like someone else would have to go to the Arabic Mosque to get a copy of the most original Quran in Arabic that we have.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It is true in the generic sense that Jesus or G-d revealed the apocalypse to John who recorded it. Sadly it is also true that whenever most Christian’s interpret the book they either make predictions that don’t come true or sound ridiculous.

Seeing that you said ( It is true in the generic sense that Jesus or G-d revealed the apocalypse to John who recorded it.)

Well seeing Jesus revealed the book of Revelation to John who then recorded everything that Jesus given John
Then it also makes logical sense that Jesus would know what everything in Revelation represents and stands for and who.

Jesus also given in Revelation the interpretation of everything in Revelation, to be found within Revelation.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I disagree with your view about the narrations which are not mentioned in the Quran. These narrators invented their Mahdi, so did the Shia. And they borrowed the second coming of Christ from the Gospel and made their own version of.

The narrations provide much useful information both historically and what Muhammad taught. You are the only Muslim I've come across who would argue otherwise.

While I agree that not all narrations are reliable and some of them can be safely discarded.

Although Sunni and Shia use different Hadiths both are agreed about the Mahdi and there may be some concordance with the return of Christ.

Both Sunni and Shia sects deviated from the Quran and are mixing it with their fabricated narrations and system of religion.

I agree that both have deviated from the Quran and bcome corrupted. I don't agree that all Hadiths are fabrications and I imagine that wouldn't sit too well with most Muslims. We could look at this more closely but it would be off topic for the OP and would require another thread.

I also disagree with your view about the Beast and the Dragon. The Beast is clearly the EU. And the Dragon is clearly the UK. The EU fits exactly the descriptions of the Beast. Especially how America left the UK, and how America is the Eagle etc. and how the UK is the Dragon, having authority over the Beast etc.

You would need to convincingly demonstrate how this could be true. The first problem is the Dragon iin Revelation 12:3-4 is most likely the beast in Daniel 7:19-26. This links with Daniel 2, Daniel 8 other parts of this prophetic book.

Four kingdoms of Daniel - Wikipedia

We know that the first 3 beasts are the Babylonians, Prsians and Greeks. The fourth beast being the EEU just doesn't fit. These were all Empires that had or were to have significant interactions with the nation of Israel. The fourth beast is terrifying and very negative for the Jews. In that sense the Roman Empire is a more logical contender. However I think the third beast was probably the Greco-Roman Empire and the fourth Militant Islam as exemplified by the Umayyads. That I can demonstrate with refernce to known history that aligns quite well with the book of revelation. I suspect you will be strugggling to do the same with the EU.

Come on, the Shia believe their Mahdi is still alive and hidden somewhere on earth for over 1400 +/- years already.. You can't even trust the Shia since their scholars believe that they can lie for personal interests..

Scholars can lie, and clearly the Mahdi was never literally hidden. However he could have been symbolically hidden (as the line of Imams ended with the disappearance of the 12th Imam) and emerged in the 19th century, much like the prophet Elijiah (John the Baptist) came before Christ.

List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well seeing Jesus revealed the book of Revelation to John who then recorded everything that Jesus given John
Then it also makes logical sense that Jesus would know what everything in Revelation represents and stands for and who.

But Jesus didn't know the hour of His return.
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matt 24:36 NIV

Only G-d is Omniscient.

Jesus also given in Revelation the interpretation of everything in Revelation, to be found within Revelation.

The problem is many who claim to be Christian don't know Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46). That's whay there are so many false Christian prophets and people pretending they know whereas they are simply following their own imaginations or that of their church leader.

 

[Dawnofhope]

He prepared them as best he could, but there was still so much that they did not comprehend....this is why he told them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for the "helper". (Acts 1:3-5) This would mean a baptism in holy spirit, revealing the full extent of their choosing and giving them extraordinary abilities.

This was the promised holy spirit. After Jesus presented the value of his sacrifice to God in heaven, only then was the holy spirit used to empower the disciples with miraculous gifts, but it also anointed them for a specific role in heaven. This was something very new for them to comprehend. For Jews, the Kingdom had been something to be set up on earth, so to give it a new connotation required God's spirit to endow the disciples with a new hope.....the spirit gave them an inordinate desire to go to heaven. This had to override their natural desire to live in the restored paradise on earth which was the promise of Messiah's kingdom, with Jews making up the priesthood in a literal temple. That was now something that would take place in heaven. It would be a heavenly government with earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4)

The helper was not human. The holy spirit is not a person; it is the power of God given to those who are chosen to rule with his son in the heavenly kingdom.

Since the "Paraclete" is not a person, it does not refer to any human.

The Holy Spirit—A Person? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

John 14:15-16...."and I will request the Father and he will give you another spokesman to be with you forever, 17 the Spirit of Truth, which the world cannot receive because it does not perceive nor know it; you know it, because it stays with you and is in you." (BLE)

The Spirit of the Truth is an "it" and "Paraclete" is used in the masculine gender because of grammar, not because the Paraclete is a human male.

Concerning 1 John 2:1, Jesus is referred to as a helper because he is the appointed "mediator between God and men".....'no one comes to the Father, except through Jesus'. His sacrifice alone opens up the way to heaven. That leaves out any other person claiming to be the returned Christ. His return was not to be in the flesh, only to die a second physical death. That would negate why he came to give up his life the first time.

Jesus was a Comforter because Jesus brought the Holy Spirit. Muhammad was another Comforter and He was also the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

It makes no sense that the Comforter is a disembodied Holy Spirit because a disembodied Holy Spirit cannot do the things mentioned in the following verses.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Muhammad did all these things as Jesus promised He would.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, the message of Muhammad lasted 1260 years to The Bab's declaration. But what does that have to do with the Umayyad dynasty lasting 1260 years? You guys are the ones saying that the Umayyads are this beast. The beast is in power for 1260 days/years. The 1260 can't be pushed back every time to 621AD just so you can always use it to get to 1844. What is the exact quote about the beast that the Baha'is say is the Umayyads? And what does it say about how long that beast will be in power? I think I've asked how you justify doing this at least a million times. Anyway, Adrian's got a post on this also. Let me see what he says.

Well I see the influence of the beast that gave incorrect understandings of the Quran, lasted the entire dispensation of Muhammad.

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

How does that show Muhammad a False Prophet?
...

In Biblical point of view, all who speak against or contradictory to Jesus and Bible God, can be seen as false prophets. If Mohammed did so, he is a false prophet, in Biblical point of view. If he didn’t do so, it could be that he is not false prophet.

And certainly, his followers have very bad fruits, if you look at the history and what Muslims have done to Christians.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In Biblical point of view, all who speak against or contradictory to Jesus and Bible God, can be seen as false prophets. If Mohammed did so, he is a false prophet, in Biblical point of view. If he didn’t do so, it could be that he is not false prophet.

And certainly, his followers have very bad fruits, if you look at the history and what Muslims have done to Christians.

Well Muhammad upheld Jesus Christ as a Messenger from God.

That a pass from me. That some Christains have made Christ God, is something they have to deal with.

Now if you use people to judge a Messenger from God, then you likewise judge Jesus the Christ, as christianity has had many a sorry event made of man in the name of Christ.

A Messenger from God is judged by their lives, their person and their Message, not by those that use the name, but do not follow the example or the Word. Those people that take a cutting off the good tree and try to graft it onto poor root stock.

So Christ and Muhammad have both produced many millions that did live the life asked of us, by those fruits we can know that Christ and Muhammad were Good Trees that produced good fruit.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A better argument, I think, would have been to address:

1. How something can be both eternal and abrogated
2. How something can be both changeless and changed
3. How you can accept as true any work that suggests the opposite of a principle already established by G-d.

That answer has been supplied in great detail by Baha'u'llah. Would you like to hear it?

Another thread it would have to be.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithofchristian]

But Jesus didn't know the hour of His return.
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matt 24:36 NIV

Only G-d is Omniscient.

There's no where in the bible that claims God as being Omniscient.
If God is Omniscient as you say, then how's come God didn't know that Satan was wicked ?
give in the bible, the chapter and verses to where it's written that God is Omniscient.


While Christ Jesus was here on earth, Jesus didn't know, But now that Jesus is in heaven, Jesus knows exactly the day and hour of his return.

The problem is many who claim to be Christian don't know Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46). That's whay there are so many false Christian prophets and people pretending they know whereas they are simply following their own imaginations or that of their church leader.

You said --->( But Jesus didn't know the hour of His return.
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:36.)

Are you absolutely positively that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of his return.

According to what Christ Jesus gave in the book of Revelation 11, all about the day and hour of his return.Jesus doesn't give the exact day and hour, but Jesus does give what is happening in that day and hour, so that when that day and hour does arrive, those that are faithful to Christ Jesus will definitely know what is about to happen. So the day and hour is not hidden at all. Once a person understands the book of Revelation as to how everything lines up and fits together.
Revelation means To Uncover, To Reveal.
And that's excaexa what Jesus did, Jesus uncovered, revealed the day and hour of his return in Revelation 11.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You said --->( But Jesus didn't know the hour of His return.
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:36.)

Are you absolutely positively that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of his return.

Jesus was the one who said it, not me. If you have an issue talk to Jesus about it.

According to what Christ Jesus gave in the book of Revelation 11, all about the day and hour of his return.Jesus doesn't give the exact day and hour, but Jesus does give what is happening in that day and hour, so that when that day and hour does arrive, those that are faithful to Christ Jesus will definitely know what is about to happen. So the day and hour is not hidden at all. Once a person understands the book of Revelation as to how everything lines up and fits together.
Revelation means To Uncover, To Reveal.
And that's excaexa what Jesus did, Jesus uncovered, revealed the day and hour of his return in Revelation 11.

Of course it’s a Revelation from G-d as He revealed Himself through Jesus. G-d, not Jesus knew exactly what would happen in the future. He left the truth of the matter sealed until the end times for those to hear and eyes to see. As the end times have passed I consider the book unsealed and the meanings clear as the noon day sun.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Jesus was the one who said it, not me. If you have an issue talk to Jesus about it.



Of course it’s a Revelation from G-d as He revealed Himself through Jesus. G-d, not Jesus knew exactly what would happen in the future. He left the truth of the matter sealed until the end times for those to hear and eyes to see. As the end times have passed I consider the book unsealed and the meanings clear as the noon day sun.

That show just how little know about the book of Revelation, Jesus foretold in Revelation 11, all about the day and hour of his return.
So it's not sealed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That show just how little know about the book of Revelation, Jesus foretold in Revelation 11, all about the day and hour of his return.
So it's not sealed.

G-d revealed Himself through Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. More recently through the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. That is my sincere belief as you have yours. I can provide an exegesis of Revelation based on the Teachings of Bahá’u’lláh. For me that is a Revelation from G-d, that makes sense and fits with known history. Of course you have a different POV and that’s fine. If you want to explain your understanding go ahead. If not, no problem. If you are here to insult and disparage religions I’m not interested. If you want to provide sensible and respectful commentary on the book of Revelation that refutes Islam being mentioned that’s fine.

 

[Dawnofhope]

To be clear a Baha’i exegesis sees the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 as Muhammad and Ali. Using the day for a year principle the 1260 days is 1260 years.

Day-year principle - Wikipedia

1260 years is the length of the Islamic dispensation from the start of the Islamic calendar in 621 AD coinciding with Muhammad’s Hegira. The year 1260 on the Islamic calendar is the year 1844. That’s the year the Bab declared His Mission.

Báb - Wikipedia

 

[Faithofchristian]

G-d revealed Himself through Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. More recently through the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. That is my sincere belief as you have yours. I can provide an exegesis of Revelation based on the Teachings of Bahá’u’lláh. For me that is a Revelation
from G-d, that makes sense and fits with known history. Of course you have a different POV and that’s fine. If you want to explain your understanding go ahead. If not, no problem. If you are here to insult and disparage religions I’m not interested. If you want to provide sensible and respectful commentary on the book of Revelation that refutes Islam being mentioned that’s fine.

First of all, in all of the 10 posts that we talk, there's no where that I insulted.
You ask a questions and I answered your questions.All base on what Christ Jesus taught.
There was no insults.

I can also provide an exegesis of Revelation based on the Teachings of
Christ Jesus in Revelation. Seeing that the book of Revelation was given by Christ Jesus.

As for us Christians, we have some disagreements, But what our faith is built on we come in agreement on.

Seeing you made mention-->( If you want to provide sensible and respectful commentary on the book of Revelation that refutes Islam being mentioned that’s fine)

Just so that you know, Christ Jesus does make mention of Islam in the book of Revelation.
But instead of me going into it, so that you can not say I was insulting.

You wouldn't be able to handle what Christ Jesus has to say about Islam in Revelation.
This is as far as I am going and to say.