Why do Christians side with Jews more than Muslims?

[Epic Beard Man]

Yes - that's what I'm saying.

Then that is problematic all around.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

With all due respect, truth remains truth no matter who speaks it.

What truth?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

In traditional Christian teaching, both Islam and Judaism are false religions.

That can be said about Judaism which holds both Christianity and Islam heretical although they both have a relationship with Judaism. That doesn't make you more right and them wrong but only in your mind.

So you might as well ask why Christians don't support Hindus or people who practice witchcraft.

No, because for one, all three have the same prophets with the exception of Muhammad in Judaism and Christianity.

It's all the same in view of the Gospel - false religions.

Ok this I get. So basically, in your view Judaism and Islam is wrong because they do not simply accept Jesus as their lord and savior correct? For that according to Christian eschatology their denial of Jesus' divinity will doom them to hell?

It doesn't mean that you can't respect people as human beings, but you can also disagree with their religion and think yours is the right one.

Correct.

There are civil and polite ways to do this. You can support people as himan beings but not endorse or support their religion. Honestly, I wish the churches would speak plainly on this issue and stop being so spineless and PC.

If you were in a position of power, how would you promote this?

As for Zionism.

I don't know why people are bringing this up considering I never mentioned Zionism in the beginning.

Regardless, Christians should support their brothers and sisters in Christ foremost and that includes Palestinian Christians.

That is an interesting position considering you'd be at odds and potentially in a shouting match with evangelical Christians.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

This is a sincere question

I really do not get the logic to be honest. I've listened to Jewish sermons and upon fielding some of the congregate questions some rabbis jokingly mention Jesus or actually refer to him as "JC" in a joking way. Anecdotally, I've seen Jews mock Christians for their belief (of course I've seen opposite as well), heck even in the very Bible it says in the following:

"When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. 'I am innocent of this man’s blood,' he said. 'It is your responsibility!' All the people answered, 'His blood is on us and on our children!' (Greek: Τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν)."

Of course there are modern interpretations to what the above verse means, but the point is observant Jews do not believe in Jesus (as well as the trinity) and in fact according to Jews, Jesus failed several test to be considered a Moshiach. On the other hand Muslims believe in Jesus, believe in his messianic mission, believe that there was an attempt to crucify him and even believe in the various miracles performed by Jesus. Muslims also say "peace be upon him" upon the very mentioning of Jesus' name. Now of course there are linguistic differences between Arab speaking Muslims and Arab Christians upon the name of Jesus, as Christian Arabs refer to Jesus as Yasu and Arabic speaking Muslims refer to Jesus as Isa ibn Maryum but more importantly regardless of the name Muslims are commanded to believe in Jesus.

What perplexes me are the Christians who are so animated in their blind support of Judaism, Israel, and settlements that encroach on the lands of Palestinians because Jews are so-called "God's chosen people," yet they fail to realize from a religious point of view, the very people they support believe they are pagans and polytheists. I mean, if there is no temple Jews are allowed to pray in a mosque and forbidden to pray in a church. Jews have referred to God as Allah, and there are Jews that readily say they have more in common with Muslims than Christians and with that being said out of sincerity to Christian believers why do you continue your theological fight against Muslims yet support Jews?

You can mention history between Judaism and Christianity, but Muslims have no history Biblically and yet Jews at least the religious ones I'm familiar with believe Muslims are very much monotheists as they are and yet Christians in the majority continue to doubt Muslims and very much Islam.

I think it's about the history of Christian nations warring against Muslims nations in the past. There was such a huge dynamic power struggle centuries ago that the bigotry has bleed through the years that both sides are distrustful towards each other. So when they see a conflict between Jews and Muslims. They naturally side on the jews side because of the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing. But I really haven't done the research to back this up or anything like that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think it's about the history of Christian nations warring against Muslims nations in the past. There was such a huge dynamic power struggle centuries ago that the bigotry has bleed through the years that both sides are distrustful towards each other. So when they see a conflict between Jews and Muslims. They naturally side on the jews side because of the whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing. But I really haven't done the research to back this up or anything like that.

I see your position. Like many others here who went off and made it about terrorism and attacks apparently it seems it is more about geopolitical differences and military excursions.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm surprised nobody addressed the video

 

[columbus]

How so? Judaism holds Christianity polytheistic in nature and Maimonides (a famous Jewish thinker) concedes that Islam theologically is superior to Christianity. If Islam is absolutely wrong in the Christian eyes what does that say about the Jew who holds Islam as "more right" theologically?

You're still mistaking the conflict for a theological problem, when it isn't.

Both Christianity and Islam are fundamentally imperial ideologies. Other world religions are not. That's why Islam and Christianity are so much more in conflict than either is with Hinduism or Buddhism or whatever.
Tom

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I see your position. Like many others here who went off and made it about terrorism and attacks apparently it seems it is more about geopolitical differences and military excursions.

Yeah thats exactly my point. I remember taking I think Western Civilization and Easter Civilization in high school the teachers saying that the holy wars they fought was more about trade routes and resources then religious ones.

 

[dianaiad]

What truth?

this one, from popeadope:

The bottom line is, Christians are severely persecuted in Muslim countries. It is rare (if ever) to hear about Jews instituting harsh policies against non-jews or robbing people of free speech, for religious reasons.

I've never heard of Jews persecuting Christians in Israel. At least, there's no beheading going on, or jail terms, or whatever.

Since this is a matter of fact, not opinion, the religious opinions of the person stating them has no bearing on whether the facts are what they are.

At least, that's been my experience.

On the other hand, what do I know? I've only been around for seven decades.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Since Christ, we are in the age of grace, the Church Age and God is calling out Jews and non-Jews together as one Body, the church.

And then threatens to boil the planet and kill billions of people. I don't think God has looked up "grace" in the dictionary.

Finally! Someone that actually took time and read instead of posting garbage answers that are emotionally drawn from biases instead of reason. People are like "well Islam killed Christians" and I'm like "Okay, but that doesn't answer the thread's question." Theologically, Jews will say they have less in common with Christians and more with Muslims and considering the blind fervor of Christian loyalty to Jews, and their global ministries, why would you support a group who in turn believes your belief is heretical? So in your above analogy thank you for actually reading the damn thread!

You're welcome.

False. There are Muslims here in the United States that have done so. But alas, this doesn't answer the theological dilemma I expressed in the beginning of this thread.

And congrats to Muslims winning several key races yesterday.

So, describing someone as a baby throwing tantrums when they hold an opinion is simply "using reason" in your estimation? Are you joking?

It was an analogy. Given the history of Christianity, especially when Islam is invented, can it be said that Christianity's response to Islam was founded on reason?

Tell me the quotes on this page aren't appeals to emotion or incredulity or both.
Christianity and Islam - Wikipedia

Or this:Medieval Christian views on Muhammad - Wikipedia

I'm sorry, but "Muhammad is a meanie-head who poo poos on his own mouth" (exaggerated slightly for effect) is not "rational".

"Islam" proves nothing.

The topic was the reason Christianity prefers one over the other (and considering many Christians just want Jews around so they can die by Jesus, one wonders if one can call that a "preference"), not whether any of the religions were true.

Judaism thought it was the last.
Christianity thought it was the last.
Islam thought it was the last.
The Bahai think it is the last (sorta).

Everyone thinks their Truth will be all that's left to say about something.

The Crusades were a counter-attack because the Muslims conquered a whole bunch of land that didn't belong to them, including the Holy Land.

The Holy Land didn't belong to Christians either.

The Muslims stole the holy land from Christians

The only reason they had the Holy Land is because Romans had it and later legalized Christianity, making it theirs by default. According to the bible, the Holy Land was stolen by Hebrews. No one from the Abrahamic religions have a claim if you're willing to go back far enough.

(Ex. Jesus addressing a crowd as a day's old infant).

Didn't Christianity have "Baby Jesus" fanfics too, though?

 

[YmirGF]

Didn't Christianity have "Baby Jesus" fanfics too, though?

Not sure what you are meaning here hence I used the priviso "Tales that had fallen into disrepute... (ergo, left out of the Bible)


Excellent post, btw.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You misquoted me because I was talking to someone else some of the words in your original opinion I did not use.

I did not attribute words to you that you did not use. I clearly stated that the quote was someone else's that you were reacting to or commenting on.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It was an analogy. Given the history of Christianity, especially when Islam is invented, can it be said that Christianity's response to Islam was founded on reason?

You're asking the wrong person entirely. In most matters religious, I'll likely be of the opinion that almost nothing being said in the spirit of the religion is rational.

And don't get me wrong - I don't even necessarily disagree with the quote I referenced of yours. I was more concerned with @Epic Beard Man's over-the-top reaction to it, and his wholehearted acceptance of it in light of the fact that it supports his view, when he had attempted to dismiss or discredit every other opinion being posted (and there were plenty, of course) that didn't work with his chosen position. Mind you... he was not arguing against the opinions or positions being taken at all. He was merely treating them wholly flippantly, with an air about him suggesting that he didn't even need to take them into consideration or waste his time. His reply to your post was basically a confirmation of exactly what all that prior attempt at dismissal meant. He was merely pining for a sympathetic ear.

 

[lukethethird]

it's because Muslims have extremist laws that are oppressing hundreds of millions of people. Muslims imprison and kill people for questioning the Quran or criticizing the Prophet Muhammad.

Muslims have also been known to cut off hands and feet , stone adulterers in the 21st century, crucify people, and they often live like it's Dark Aged theocracies. Muslims have also taken Christians and non-muslims and made them sex slaves. in some countries, a woman needs five men to testify that she got raped or she goes to jail for adultery.

If Jews were doing that, I would have just as much resentment.

That's only the Muslims from the countries that western forces are bombing into submission, before the bombing and or the overthrow of their governments by covert means, things were cool.

 

[Spiderman]

That's only the Muslims from the countries that western forces are bombing into submission, before the bombing and or the overthrow of their governments by covert means, things were cool.

Oh like Pakistan?

 

[Shiranui117]

It began as a sincere question but if immediately people commenting about what Muslims do instead of answer the OP itself then my response has to liken the responses that I receive. These are garbage answers because people aren't addressing what I'm writing in my original position. I'm clearly talking about the theological differences that exist between Christianity and Judaism and the Judaic opinion on Christian theology. I made this clear in the beginning! I never mentioned anything about the historical position between Islam and Christianity this is not what its about I clearly stated the fundamental differences and opinions of Jews concering Christianity. I even stated that it is permissible for Jews to pray in a mosque and not a church I made that clear.

And it's not permissible for a Christian to pray in either. I don't see what your point is in making this claim. From what I gather, your entire point is "Why do Christians side more with the Jews if the Jews side with the Muslims?" Do you therefore think that we should side with the Muslims instead, who we have a significantly worse history with?

Considering the Christian position concerning the deity Allah, Christians ought to wonder why a Jew is praying in an environment in the home of a supposed moon-god deity as some Christians had professed Allah is. In the "Epistle to Yemen" the Jewish philosopher Maimonides wrote about this.

I don't know any serious Christian scholars who actually claim that Muslims worship a moon-deity. The only people I've ever seen make that argument have been quacks. One could just as confidently argue that Jews and Christians worship a storm god.

Which Muslims? Which government?

Allow me to quote another post I made to you:

"Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Pakistan, Boko Haram, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, the Ottomans, the Fatimids, al-Andalus..."

I'm specifically talking about the 10,000 Franks that capture Jerusalem killing Muslims and Jews (innocent ones at that).

Orthodox Christians were killed in the Crusader onslaught too. And they were being killed by the Crusaders long before the latter got to Jerusalem. Again, not sure how the Crusades came into this conversation.

But the object of the thread is to not discuss history because we can discuss the Crusades in depth elsewhere, but to answer your question, I'm referring to several of the Muslim dynasties that had different agendas. You're speaking as if in the entire history of Islam Christians were persecuted.Sure, there were Caliphs that did very bad things. Sure, there were Muslims that have terrorized other people but there are also good aspects of history that you are conveniently forgetting just as you conveniently aren't addressing the theological issue at hand.

Because that's the historical reality we lived under. The Islamic modus operandi was to place Christians and Jews under political and social pressure to renounce their faiths and become Muslim. It worked on most of the Bosnians, Egyptians, Syrians, Palestinians and Albanians. It might have eventually ended up working in Greece, Romania and Serbia.

An abused wife doesn't excuse her husband's abuse because of the "good aspects" of the relationship. Whatever good came out of the Islamic Golden Age doesn't excuse their oppression and cultural/military genocide of Christians.

Judaic philosophical thought, holds you faith as Avodah Zara. Christianity is tri-monotheism and heretical according to the Jewish opinion and holds Islam more monotheistic than Christianity why can't you address that issue?

Alright, and we say the Muslims are wrong for rejecting the Gospels and Jesus' Divinity and for calling Muhammad a prophet, and the Jews say the Muslims are wrong for calling Jesus the Messiah and calling the Tanakh corrupt. We all think the other two religions are wrong in one way or another. Your point is?

Why is that so hard because I'm right? Would you like proof?

"For Maimonides, Christianity and Islam are related to Judaism. Maimonides's practical view of Christianity was usually assumed to be negative and he regarded Christianity as a form of proscribed polytheism, even for gentiles. In his code of Jewish law, Mishneh Torah, Maimonides basically restated his judgment about the idolatrous status of Christianity without repeating the reasons he gave in his earlier works. As a theologian, he took regularly strong exemption to Christian Trinitarianism. Maimonides ranked Islam superior than Christianity on theological grounds. For him, Christianity is the prime example of the error of such anthropomorphism in its original doctrine of the Incarnation and in its associated doctrine of the Trinity."

Source:Jewish-Christian Dialogue: A Jewish Justification

Great, that's what Maimonides says. I know Orthodox Jews who will say that Orthodox Christianity has a much more similar ethos to Orthodox Judaism than Islam does. Christians have also called Jews apostates throughout the millennia for rejecting Jesus, and thereby rejecting God. Again, we all say that the other two religions are wrong on theological grounds. At least the Jews accept the Law and the Prophets. In our eyes, Islam doesn't accept the Law or the Prophets or Jesus; the way we see it, Muhammad just made up his own version of all of these. So even from a Christian theological perspective, Judaism has a closer kinship to us than does Islam. We share a vast amount of scriptures and history. Islam shares none of that with us. Islam says they have all the same prophets as Judaism and Christianity, yet uses none of the texts from either the Gospels or the Tanakh unless they're trying to convert us. At least we can relate to Judaism. Islam is just utterly foreign.

 

[lukethethird]

Oh like Pakistan?

Excellent example of a failed state with full U.S. support.

 

[Spiderman]

And it's not permissible for a Christian to pray in either. I don't see what your point is in making this claim. From what I gather, your entire point is "Why do Christians side more with the Jews if the Jews side with the Muslims?" So what, should we side more with the Muslims?

I don't know any serious Christian scholars who actually claim that Muslims worship a moon-deity. The only people I've ever seen make that argument have been quacks. One could just as confidently argue that Jews and Christians worship a storm god.

Allow me to quote another post I made to you:

"Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Pakistan, Boko Haram, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, the Ottomans, the Fatimids, al-Andalus..."

Orthodox Christians were killed in the Crusader onslaught too. And they were being killed by the Crusaders long before the latter got to Jerusalem. Again, not sure what your point is in bringing up the Crusades.

Because that's the historical reality we lived under. The Islamic modus operandi was to place Christians and Jews under political and social pressure to renounce their faiths and become Muslim. It worked on most of the Bosnians, Egyptians, Syrians, Palestinians and Albanians. It might have eventually ended up working in Greece, Romania and Serbia.

An abused wife doesn't excuse her husband's abuse because of the "good aspects" of the relationship. Whatever good came out of the Islamic Golden Age doesn't excuse their oppression and cultural/military genocide of Christians.

Alright, and we say the Muslims are wrong for rejecting the Gospels and Jesus' Divinity and for calling Muhammad a prophet, and the Jews say the Muslims are wrong for calling Jesus the Messiah and calling the Tanakh corrupt. We all think the other two religions are wrong in one way or another. Your point is?


Great, that's what Maimonides says. I know Orthodox Jews who will say that Orthodox Christianity has a much more similar ethos to Orthodox Judaism than Islam does. Christians have also called Jews apostates throughout the millennia for rejecting Jesus, and thereby rejecting God. Again, we all say that the other two religions are wrong on theological grounds. At least the Jews accept the Law and the Prophets. In our eyes, Islam doesn't accept the Law or the Prophets or Jesus; the way we see it, Muhammad just made up his own version of all of these. So even from a Christian theological perspective, Judaism has a closer kinship to us than does Islam. At least we can relate to Judaism. Islam is just utterly foreign.

This

 

[Shiranui117]

I'm surprised nobody addressed the video

The views that these people hold are absolutely irrelevant as far as 85% of the world's Christians are concerned. They're a VERY small minority; basically every single Christian denomination that is actually established in the Levant dismisses them out of hand. The Rapture as a belief is only about 200 years old.

That is an interesting position considering you'd be at odds and potentially in a shouting match with evangelical Christians.

Evangelical Christians are 1: a very new branch of American Christianity, and 2: utterly irrelevant outside the American sphere of influence. So their opinions really have no bearing on me or on 90% of Christians worldwide.

 

[Thief]

Ok let’s start over.

Jews believe in one indivisible deity the maker of heaven and earth. Muslims believe in one indivisible deity. Most religious Jews would say they have more in common with Muslims than Christians so with that being said, why do Christians support people that don’t believe in their faith theologically?

Christian faith is rooted in the parables taught by a Jew

in ancient times religion was enforced....by sword
when Moses came down from the Mount
3,000 of his own people were killed
something about a false idol

swords drawn.....people dying
seems Islam has a similar practice

I don't follow Muhammad, or Moses

and the Carpenter is my Inspiration

otherwise
I don't follow anyone
and no one follows me

no religion