Love your neighborhood Jew as yourself

[Kenny]

Ephesians 2:8-9: "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

You could try reading the point I raised in reply #478 where I point out that major (Western) Christian denominations have been preaching salvation through faith alone as far back as the 11th Century.

There's also the fact that Christianity is an orthodox faith - meaning what one believes matters more than their actions.

You present to much of a simplistic declaration without addressing the points I made.

I could get a drunk to confess Jesus as Lord and pay him $20 for it and it doesn't make him a Christian

Jesus said "A tree is known by his fruit". What fruit did Hitler produce that would suggest he was a Christian?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You present to much of a simplistic declaration without addressing the points I made.

I could get a drunk to confess Jesus as Lord and pay him $20 for it and it doesn't make him a Christian

I presented you with a verse from your own holy book just like you did with me. Funny how it's suddenly "too much of a simplistic declaration" when I do it.

You're right; merely saying it doesn't make said homeless man a Christian. He'd be a Christian if he believed in Jesus as his saviour though. Like Hitler did.

Jesus said "A tree is known by his fruit". What fruit did Hitler produce that would suggest he was a Christian?

His confession of his faith, his hatred of the Jews; his labelling of them as Christ-killers. I'm not trying to imply that a majority of Christians believe this now or that anti-Semitism is a key feature of Christian doctrines now. My point is that Hitler used Christian-oriented arguments (such as the aforementioned 'Christ-killer' claim) to explain why he hated Jews and that back in Christianity's hey day it was all too easy to whip up anti-Semitism among Christian populations.

 

[Kenny]

I presented you with a verse from your own holy book just like you did with me. Funny how it's suddenly "too much of a simplistic declaration" when I do it.
.

Because you can't just take one scripture and make a full presentation of a thought.

.

You're right; merely saying it doesn't make said homeless man a Christian. He'd be a Christian if he believed in Jesus as his saviour though. Like Hitler did.
.

As my quotes of Hitler himself declared, as well as scripture, no he wasn't

Even Jesus went to many Pharisees who said Abraham was their father and God was their God and yet Jesus said "Your father is the devil".

I would say the Hitler's father was the devil.


.

His confession of his faith, his hatred of the Jews; his labelling of them as Christ-killers. I'm not trying to imply that a majority of Christians believe this now or that anti-Semitism is a key feature of Christian doctrines now. My point is that Hitler used Christian-oriented arguments (such as the aforementioned 'Christ-killer' claim) to explain why he hated Jews and that back in Christianity's hey day it was all too easy to whip up anti-Semitism among Christian populations.

Absolutely, many people use scripture for their own purposes. Politicians do it all the time ... wait a minute.. Hitler was a politician too

 

[oldbadger]

Is there any reason to believe he wasn't? He certainly professed a faith in Jesus as his Saviour.

And so you believe that?
I expect that Hitler made sure that he fitted in with as many voters as possible, and we voters sure are gullible when it comes down to politician's postures and claims.

But 'Christian is' as 'Christian does', not as 'Christian says'

If you think that Hitler was a Christian, then that might tell a lot about you?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Because you can't just take one scripture and make a full presentation of a thought.

But you can do it with merely two? Boy, that's convenient. The one I quoted is as much a part of your own holy book and here you are trying to dismiss it as well as the history of the multiple 'salvation through faith alone' theories that go with it.

.

As my quotes of Hitler himself declared, as well as scripture, no he wasn't

Even Jesus went to many Pharisees who said Abraham was their father and God was their God and yet Jesus said "Your father is the devil".

I would say the Hitler's father was the devil.

He wouldn't be the first Christian to make anti-Semitic remarks that Jews were of the devil.

Absolutely, many people use scripture for their own purposes. Politicians do it all the time ... wait a minute.. Hitler was a politician too

That's a fair point. Politicians will do or say anything to cling on to power.

And so you believe that?
I expect that Hitler made sure that he fitted in with as many voters as possible, and we voters sure are gullible when it comes down to politician's postures and claims.

That's possible. I merely get the feeling some Christians tend to do their best to disavow Hitler as Christian because he's Hitler and no other reason.

But 'Christian is' as 'Christian does', not as 'Christian says'

Christians who believe in salvation through faith alone would tell you works aren't enough. The only thing worth doing is having faith in Jesus as your Redeemer.

If you think that Hitler was a Christian, then that might tell a lot about you?

This discussion isn't about me.

“At thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, I no longer believed in anything, certainly none of my friends still believed in the so-called communion, only a few totally stupid honor students!"
Brigitte Hamann, Hitler’s Vienna (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999), 19

Sounds like the remarks of your average Protestant sectarian. This doesn't mean Hitler has rejected all Christianity. His rejection of the Catholic Church specifically (referred to by "the so-called communion") is entirely in keeping with the Nazis' intolerance for any form of parallel power structure which might have the influence to challenge them. The fact he omitted the German Evangelical Church from his party's 'struggle of the churches' would also suggest Hitler was Protestant in outlook.

 

[Kenny]

But you can do it with merely two? Boy, that's convenient. The one I quoted is as much a part of your own holy book and here you are trying to dismiss it as well as the history of the multiple 'salvation through faith alone' theories that go with it.

He wouldn't be the first Christian to make anti-Semitic remarks that Jews were of the devil.

That's a fair point. Politicians will do or say anything to cling on to power.

That's possible. I merely get the feeling some Christians tend to do their best to disavow Hitler as Christian because he's Hitler and no other reason.

hristians who believe in salvation through faith alone would tell you works aren't enough. The only thing worth doing is having faith in Jesus as your Redeemer.

This discussion isn't about me.

Sounds like the remarks of your average Protestant sectarian. This doesn't mean Hitler has rejected all Christianity. His rejection of the Catholic Church specifically (referred to by "the so-called communion") is entirely in keeping with the Nazis' intolerance for any form of parallel power structure which might have the influence to challenge them. The fact he omitted the German Evangelical Church from his party's 'struggle of the churches' would also suggest Hitler was Protestant in outlook.

I guess you are going to believe what you want to believe no matter what historical evidence there is.

 

[oldbadger]

Christians who believe in salvation through faith alone would tell you works aren't enough. The only thing worth doing is having faith in Jesus as your Redeemer.....

Ha ha ha!
You think that Hitler believed in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ?
You do....?

OMG!!!!

 

[Kenny]

Ha ha ha!
You think that Hitler believed in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ?
You do....?

OMG!!!!

You just made me think.... and as I meditated...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Thanks, I needed that.

 

[oldbadger]

You just made me think.... and as I meditated...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Thanks, I needed that.

And thank you!
They'll be stuffing him into Crusader gear with broad sword next, kneeling in prayer with his generals.

Dieu et moin droit!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Ha ha ha!
You think that Hitler believed in salvation through faith in Jesus Christ?
You do....?

OMG!!!!

What a compelling argument

 

[Kenny]

What a compelling argument

Against what compelling statement?

 

[Kenny]

And thank you!
They'll be stuffing him into Crusader gear with broad sword next, kneeling in prayer with his generals.

Dieu et moin droit!

An my greatest fear is that he will say "Pour mon Dieu et mon Sauveur"

 

[oldbadger]

What a compelling argument

It's as compelling as pretending that Hitler consulted with the fairies and little people! Or do you believe that as well?

 

[oldbadger]

An my greatest fear is that he will say "Pour mon Dieu et mon Sauveur"

I've learned something here... In future such claims for a Christian Hitler will be met by me with hilarity, cps they don't deserve an intelligent response.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's as compelling as pretending that Hitler consulted with the fairies and little people! Or do you believe that as well?

Your post was indeed as compelling as the notion that Hitler consulted with the fairies and little people. I.e. not at all.

If you've nothing left to do but mock others then you've got nothing useful left to say.

 

[oldbadger]

Your post was indeed as compelling as the notion that Hitler consulted with the fairies and little people. I.e. not at all.

If you've nothing left to do but mock others then you've got nothing useful left to say.

Oh come on! What else was there to do, given such a wacky idea that Hitler was a Christian? LOL!

Anything he said in his early political years can be easily explained as a vote-puller.
Anything he did as a child can easily be explained as early development.
The 'Hitler was Christian' hoax has been trolling around on RF for years now. So all the debates for and against have been called, again and again, and all that's left is incredulous jollity.

Everything Hitler did and said was for his blessed dream of a Third Reich and a pure Aryan Fatherland. He turned upon the Russians for more power and lands, not to save the population from atheism. What a laugh.

 

[Flankerl]

I don't even know how Hitler came up in this thread but I think it is quite foolish to read too much into the supposed religiosity of Hitler or any other Nazi.
People who are interested in Religion or who are religious tend to concentrate on this idea because they themselves are interested in Religion.
They want to make that connection because they view the world in the terms of Religion even when it is not about Religion.

Hitler like any politician pandered to all kinds of people for support. Throughout their reign the Nazis were scared that people would just rise up.
Fun fact: That is also why Germans were even well fed in 1945 as Hitler had seen what hunger could do to people in 1918.

To work against that possibility leaders of society away from Politics were of obvious interest.
And back then Religion was a major point of interest in society.
Even today non-religious German politicians attend Christian ceremonies. Why? So that they are seen as caring about it.
It is called being a politician.

Because that's what Hitler was. A failed artist, WW1 veteran gone politician.



And no, the Nazis also weren't about Paganism. Nazism in itself is above Religion. Just because a few Nazis had some interest in something doesn't mean it was part of general Nazism.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't even know how Hitler came up in this thread/QUOTE]

There is actually a rule of thumb called Godwin's Law that says in a thread sooner or later someone will make a comparison to Hitler, which effectively kills the conversation.