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Sacred status of ancient documents
- Thread starter 22zg2293
- Start date
Jollybear
Hey
I think before a document reaches that sacred status, 2 things need to be determined.
is it written by an eyewitness or have an eyewitness approval?
2, is the teaching sound?
WalterTrull
Godfella
To my knowledge, documents don't compete. So, might some sort of vainglory be involved?
"Eye witnesses are completely untrustworthy irrelevant and not to be listened to, i am an eye witness trust me"
Well thomas totally blows up your eyewitness theory, hypothesis, speculation, belief!!!! That actually is an ancient greek statement written right into the new testament curiously!. Its specifically called the liers paradox.
I actually have a degree in this stuff and trust me when i say professors read right over that without realizing how that passage and why that passage is written. The writers are ohhhh so voodoo deep its stunning. Its not written by BELIEVERS!!
Never trust anyone over thirty, trust me i am over 30.
I think you need to make your post clearer. I think you are saying non cannon texts are competing with cannon texts for viability in the frameowork that the christian cannon texts were cannonized.
Well thats an interesting question actually. Since the cannon developed based on a view that developed in christianity other texts were systematically ignored that created divergent views. So the cannon locked the church into a view, instead of having a plethora of competing views. Ironically that developed into a religion of about what 40,000 denominations today so the cannonization actually totally failed eventually in its original purpose.
I hadnt thought much on this topic but the purpose of the cannon IS a resounding failure actually at least in the long term. Which is not surprising since theologians were basically the source for the cannon. I know they generally are well meaning dimwits. Nice smart serious folks though!! Actually good people generally.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What makes a document sacred anyways?
Jollybear
Hey
These eye witnesses wer persecuted for there claims, that makes them trustworthy, doesnt it?
You lost me. Explain more?
The NT is not written by believers? Huh?
Your losing me here.
I am not. You made the statement they are believers. i said no they are not believers. You then were confused by that.
It says so directly in the text by paul(s) himself. This is not written by believers its written for believers. But over time belief became the norm arriving at the nonsense "we believe", cut and paste verses which is today what is called the nicene creed.
The nonsese is not in the verses its in the "we believe". Not everyone is that, nor are they atheist nor are the agnostic about it at all.
What eyewitnesses?
I hear a lot about these claims of eyewitnesses and persecution. But I never hear any reason to believe any of them.
It's always some modern person who claims it, without backing up their story with anything more concrete than delusions of grandeur.
Tom
What does "sound" mean, in this context?
Agrees with what you already believe to be true?
Tom
WalterTrull
Godfella
Don't know why it should be an issue. The book is. You want a different book, make up a criteria, choose some writings, put 'em together, call it bibleII, done.
Jollybear
Hey
Ok, let me get this straght, your saying the bible was written by atheists? Do i understand that correctly?
Jollybear
Hey
Acts 5:12 is one example out of many. Lets discuss it.
"17Then the high priest and all his associates, who were members of the party of the Sadducees, were filled with jealousy. 18They arrested the apostles and put them in the public jail. 19But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the jail and brought them out. 20“Go, stand in the temple courts,” he said, “and tell the people all about this new life.”
21At daybreak they entered the temple courts, as they had been told, and began to teach the people.
When the high priest and his associates arrived, they called together the Sanhedrin—the full assembly of the elders of Israel—and sent to the jail for the apostles. 22But on arriving at the jail, the officers did not find them there. So they went back and reported, 23“We found the jail securely locked, with the guards standing at the doors; but when we opened them, we found no one inside.” 24On hearing this report, the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests were at a loss, wondering what this might lead to.
25Then someone came and said, “Look! The men you put in jail are standing in the temple courts teaching the people.” 26At that, the captain went with his officers and brought the apostles. They did not use force, because they feared that the people would stone them.
27The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
29Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
33When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death.34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing.37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
40His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah."
So, they wer witnesses and wer persecuted for it and did not recant under pressure.
Jollybear
Hey
Sound as in good, balanced, logical teaching. Good moral code.