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Christian Sheep and Goats

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The OP is concerned with 'Sheep and Goats'.

I'm aware.


There were true and false prophets, the difference recognized by the quality of their deeds, the fruits. They perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (LORD) but live evil lives. The morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus.

Grossly oversimplified. None of the prophets lived perfect lives. None of them were completely accurate, either.


Matthew 12:26
And, if the Adversary does cast out the Adversary, against himself he was divided, how then does his kingdom stand?

Mark 9:38-41

And John did answer him, saying, `Teacher, we saw a certain one in your name casting out demons, who does not follow us, and we forbade him, because he does not follow us.'
And Jesus said, 'Forbid him not, for there is no one who shall do a mighty work in my name, and shall be able readily to speak evil of me: for he who is not against us is for us; for whoever may give you to drink a cup of water in my name, because you are Christ's, verily I say to you, he may not lose his reward.'
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
giggles

the bible says that not everyone will enter in to the kingdom of god, why? isn't idolizing jesus all that it takes to be with god?


Matt 7:21-Matt 7:23 NIV “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


so exciting!!!!
These verses are revealed with regards to the time of the End, when according to the Bible, on that Day, they will see the Father face to face....On that Day, it is no longer enough to believe Jesus is Lord, but recognition and obedience to the commands of the Father are requirements to enter heaven. No longer Christians ask Jesus anything but the Father Himself will be with them...
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
@Fool

If you recall, Jesus himself was accused of driving out demons, and performing miracles by Beelzebub's authority. If you remember his response, it is worth considering here.


There's also Mark 9:38-41

the problem is idolatry obviously.

he who does the will of my father, not idolize me, will enter the kingdom


but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven................it doesn't say thy idolatry to jesus be done.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Not within Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and most liberal Protestant circles, as also doing what Jesus taught is necessary. IOW, believing in Jesus, not just some things about him.

See Matthew 25's "Parable of the Sheep & Goats" for an example.
idolizing anyone prohibits someone from entering the kingdom.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
A) they weren't doing to will of God, by prophesying, driving out demons, and performing miracles,

Or,

B) they weren't actually doing them.
Contextually, wouldn't the point be they were doing what God told them to do, but they did it for perks, like heaven? I mean, many Christians believe in Jesus simply because they want heavenly perks. Take away the carrot and will they still go for it as the Way should stand on its own merits?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
And John did answer him, saying, `Teacher, we saw a certain one in your name casting out demons, who does not follow us, and we forbade him, because he does not follow us.'

Jesus warns against jealousy and intolerance toward others, such as exorcists who do not follow us.
We must keep in mind that the Gospels were penned long after the time of the Apostles and each evangelist addressed the particular needs, problems facing his own community.
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I'm not into judging others along those lines. However, I don't believe in nor use idolatry myself.

the practice of idolatry results in judging. it creates a disparity; wherein it's opposite must arise. the polarity of idolize is despise.

every one has the potential to do good/evil. so if heaven is only up then hell must then be only down. up's antonym is down. idolize's antonym is abhor, despise, et al.
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
These verses are revealed with regards to the time of the End, when according to the Bible, on that Day, they will see the Father face to face....On that Day, it is no longer enough to believe Jesus is Lord, but recognition and obedience to the commands of the Father are requirements to enter heaven. No longer Christians ask Jesus anything but the Father Himself will be with them...
the time is now for getting away with it.



"Truly I tell you, some who are attending here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man, their humanity and godliness coming in their kingdom."


And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!


allahu akbar


LOVE IS GREATEST
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
the time is now for getting away with it.



"Truly I tell you, some who are attending here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man, their humanity and godliness coming in their kingdom."


And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, “There will be no more delay!


allahu akbar


LOVE IS GREATEST
The verse you now quote, is with regards to the first coming of Son of Man:

"As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning."

When Jesus was saying to them, some will not die till they see the kingdom of Son of Man, His mission as the Messiah had not begun yet. By these statements, He was preparing them of a near future event. The mission of Jesus, as a prophet, and Messiah is marked by the vision of Elijah and Moses, when God says, this is my Son...
And as Jesus prophesied some of people who were standing with Him, lived until they saw, the kingdom, which is an allusion to the Religion of Christ established.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
The verse you now quote, is with regards to the first coming of Son of Man:

"As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning."

When Jesus was saying to them, some will not die till they see the kingdom of Son of Man, His mission as the Messiah had not begun yet. By these statements, He was preparing them of a near future event. The mission of Jesus, as a prophet, and Messiah is marked by the vision of Elijah and Moses, when God says, this is my Son...
And as Jesus prophesied some of people who were standing with Him, lived until they saw, the kingdom, which is an allusion to the Religion of Christ established.

son of man = humanity

son of man vs son of god

ezekiel was called the son of man too.



SON OF MAN - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Contextually, wouldn't the point be they were doing what God told them to do, but they did it for perks, like heaven? I mean, many Christians believe in Jesus simply because they want heavenly perks. Take away the carrot and will they still go for it as the Way should stand on its own merits?
The merits are incentives. The Kingdom of Heaven is an incentive; a merit. There is no cause, without an incentive, or a catalyst. The incentives are necessary, which is why we have the Beatitudes, for example.

It's extremely easy- too easy- to interpret Jesus' words from a perspective of self-righteousness (one of his stumbling-blocks). But, Jesus was admonishing us all. We are all guilty of prophesying inaccurately, and/or believing things which have not been confirmed.

Matthew 7:11 said:
If, therefore, you being evil, have known good gifts to give to your children, how much more shall your Father who [is] in the heavens give good things to those asking him?

The Tree of Knowledge is a description of our condition. The Son of Man is required to ingest good with evil, to obtain wisdom. We are evil, i.e. lesser than God. But, God is nevertheless our Father. We are a lesser good; an incomplete good; a derivative of the only One who is good. So, Jesus is admonishing us all, concerning falsehood, and the fruit of these falsehoods, i.e. misinformed action.

Matthew 5:33-37 said:
'Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not swear falsely, but you shall pay to the Lord your oaths; but I -- I say to you, not to swear at all; neither by the heaven, because it is the throne of God, nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is a city of a great king, nor by your head may you swear, because you are not able one hair to make white or black; but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The incentives are necessary, which is why we have the Beatitudes, for example.
So, in other words, morality doesn't stand on its own and the only reason to be moral is to be rewarded for it.

kohlberg2.jpg
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
So, in other words, morality doesn't stand on its own and the only reason to be moral is to be rewarded for it.

kohlberg2.jpg

It doesn't. If you think about empathy, for example- that's how it works. We don't do things just for the sake of doing them; there's a desired effect, whether that be internal, external, or both.

But, I don't think anything stands on its own.
 
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