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Happy Halloween and Satanic

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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Every true believer will suffer persecution, that is a promise which is guaranteed by God Himself. The fact that you didn't suffer any persecution tells me that you weren't a true believer. I can understand your Christian friends breaking ties with you, because we are commanded not to fellowship with unbelievers.

The ability to live a moral life is given by God to His chosen people, it's not possible for anyone to live a moral life without the Holy Spirit indwelling them. We are all born totally depraved and we live as sinners until we are converted, it's not possible for anyone to be justified or morally pure using our own ability.

We are totally dependent upon God to guide us and to live a good life, if we try to do it without God we will fall into Satan's trap and become His prisoners and end up in hell with Him.
If that’s the case, I know many people who have the H. S. Indwelling in them who are professed atheists. They are some of the most moral people I know.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
he fact that you didn't suffer any persecution tells me that you weren't a true believer.
:rolleyes: What happened to Christians holding up humility as a virtue? Have they replaced it with arrogance? Have they decided it's on them, instead of Jehovah, to judge people?
I can understand your Christian friends breaking ties with you, because we are commanded not to fellowship with unbelievers.
So you condone people being ******** to each other?
The ability to live a moral life is given by God to His chosen people, it's not possible for anyone to live a moral life without the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
It's not in me, yet I have a very solid foundation of morality. And, again, what's with this arrogance? You think it's not possible for someone without the holy spirit? I'm pretty sure not even Jesus would agree, since he said it's not by acts but by grace through faith we are saved.
We are totally dependent upon God to guide us and to live a good life,
My life has been grand without him. I am dependent upon god for nothing.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I would put it to you that you never were a true believer, you trusted in other people to tell you about the Lord but you never had a personal relationship with Him.
How about stop with the assumptions? You are incorrect here, and only because you want to take an assumption that is very common for Christians who are reluctant to accept that not everyone has a pleasant experience being Christian. So instead of accepting facts, you all tell yourselves that "this person and that person just wasn't a "true" Christian to begin with."
If the doctrine of Eternal Security is true, I was "saved once" so I'm "always saved." And I know the church loves to promote the idea that those who leave were never saved to begin with, but that stems from the idea that Christians are so sure of themselves that they can't perceive any reason why someone would want to leave. So if they do, without even asking, it is judged--by humans rather than god--their faith was weak and/or non-existent and they weren't saved to begin with. But such thinking is to point out the splinter in the eye of another while ignoring the mote in your own eye, and to allow those with sin to cast the first stone - things Jesus clearly said not to do.

Every single one of us has to make choice, we either believe Christ or we believe Lucifer. Christ offers eternal life in paradise but Lucifer can't offer anything because He doesn't own anything, He was created by Christ who owns every spec of dust in the entire universe.
Yet tons of people believe in neither.
And, of course, 'tis better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

I hope and pray that you would reconsider and choose Christ
And go back to a life of misery? To again worship a god who's book says a woman is to obey her husband, and neglects to say anything about slavery being wrong?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
He suffered untold agony to save undeserving wicked sinners who His enemies and they hated Him.
His suffering was minuscule. He is a god, allegedly, and immortal. His execution wasn't drawn out over days, and he was dead within a day and resurrected a couple days later. He didn't need the faith of mortals because he had the knowledge of the gods of things to come. For all the methods our species has come up with to kill each other, Jesus got off pretty light.
Can you imagine choosing to suffer unimaginable pain and suffering for your enemies who hate you,
I find it incomprehensible that someone would set up a system that makes them have to go through with such a thing and expect love and pity--while bestowing shame upon them--for going through something that they themselves set up. God could have done anything else, but that is what he wanted. I won't feel any pity for him or sympathy towards him for such foolishness and stupidity. There is no guilt tripping me back into thinking that was any sort of grueling experience. Plenty of Christian saints endured far worse, and Jesus--someone who is immortal and a god--was killed in less than a day (there are those rulers who drew the process out so it took days to kill the condemned) and he spent one lousy weekend in Hell. I myself have spent 32 years with bad knees that have long caused me pain and grief.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Your comment is born out of ignorance of who God really is, it's obvious you don't know Him and your observation is from a distance..

Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged. Oh Great And Mighty Self-Appointed Speaker for "God".

If god were real? Likely It would have eliminated you as a negative force.

Once again, you keep making a case AGAINST god, because of your ugly attitude.
Your image of God is a false and perverted one,.

DUDE! I'm going by YOUR IMGAGE, here! **I** do not have a god, and **I** do not have ANY images of any god!

You really need to get over yourself. I'm simply describing YOUR image! As YOU describe it!

Silly.
if you knew God you would love Him.

Wait.... you just said I had to FEAR god.

Notebook: You can't LOVE something and FEAR it too. It's one OR the other!
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Can you imagine choosing to suffer unimaginable pain and suffering for your enemies who hate you, then you get people like yourself accusing you of being "pure evil"..


And can YOU imagine a god who does NOT NEED to stoop so low as to capriciously make a Custom Torture PIt?

JUST because I don't "love him back"?

Your god? PURE EVIL.


I would cast you into hell to burn forever if I was God, for responding to His love with such evil wickedness.

Indeed. You are clearly as hate-filled as the god you imagine.

How Convenient! Your god hates everything YOU hate!

But this comment by you? Demonstrates everything I need to know about you and your hate-cult.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Well, my point is that Halloween is a Christian celebration remembering the dead. The cultural stuff (trick or treating, costumes, jack o'laterns, spooky or horror stuff, etc.) is modern for the most part. Of course corporations have latched onto it to sell candy, as they did with Valentine's Day (actually is the Feast of St. Valentine - also a Christian holy day). They just commercialize holidays. Of course Christmas is the biggest example. But it is originally religious.

As for "pagan" (I actually do not like that term) customs, that's somewhat up in the air since the Celts left us with almost nothing in terms of documenting their religious or cultural practices before conversion to Christianity. They didn't write things down. So it's hard to say what folk practices stem from pre-Christian Celtic cultures, if any. It's similar to how people believe this myth of Christmas trees being of pre-Christian Germanic religious origin when the custom didn't start until about the 16th century and was/is being used by Christians as metaphors for Christian concepts (and it started in the Baltic countries - not Germanic). All of that is superfluous to the actual commemoration of the holy days, though.

Halloween and All Saints day were both names the intentional conversion of the pre-Christian celebration with a Christian façade so that Christianity would be more acceptable to the pre-Christian Celtic people. You replace the tribal god and goddess with Christ and Mary as the new god and goddess and keep the ritual which was most important to them. There were no Jewish holidays that are celebrated October 31st or November 1st only the pre-Christion Celtic celebration. This celebration was about the beginning of the winter half of the year and was the time when the supernatural world and the natural world became connected. You are right the pre-Christians had an oral tradition so we are dependent on the Christian translations but there is also archeologic information. We also know the Catholic Church intentionally renamed pagan customs with new Christian names. There is no Jewish celebration where Christianity came from that matches the Halloween celebration.
There was nothing that the growing Christian faith could not consume and recreate as their own with no connection to the teaching of Jesus. Next we can rename July fourth as the holy celebration of the lights of the sky as a celebration of the light of Jesus showing the way to heaven.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Halloween and All Saints day were both names the intentional conversion of the pre-Christian celebration with a Christian façade so that Christianity would be more acceptable to the pre-Christian Celtic people. You replace the tribal god and goddess with Christ and Mary as the new god and goddess and keep the ritual which was most important to them. There were no Jewish holidays that are celebrated October 31st or November 1st only the pre-Christion Celtic celebration. This celebration was about the beginning of the winter half of the year and was the time when the supernatural world and the natural world became connected. You are right the pre-Christians had an oral tradition so we are dependent on the Christian translations but there is also archeologic information. We also know the Catholic Church intentionally renamed pagan customs with new Christian names. There is no Jewish celebration where Christianity came from that matches the Halloween celebration.
There was nothing that the growing Christian faith could not consume and recreate as their own with no connection to the teaching of Jesus. Next we can rename July fourth as the holy celebration of the lights of the sky as a celebration of the light of Jesus showing the way to heaven.
All Saints and All Souls existed before they moved the celebration to the end of October and beginning of November in the 8th century and I believe the Celts had already converted by that time. They didn't just make it up out of thin air to replace Samhain. And the actual Masses that take place have nothing to do with Celtic polytheism or customs. The Catholic Church is global, after all, and of course local customs become mixed into introduced religions. Unlike puritan sects like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches does not demand that you abandon your heritage or all of your culture to join. It views the diversity in ethnicity and cultures as being from God and a gift. So it strives to take the good elements and nurture those. Not raze everything to the ground. At least that is how they are supposed to act. Obviously they haven't always lived up to that. A similar thing happened to Buddhism all over Asia. Buddhist monks went on missions all over Asia and converted people and the new religion was mixed in with the existing cultures.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
You speak out of ignorance, you don't know who the Lord Jesus Christ is or what He did or why He did it or what He taught and commanded so your opinion and view are not worth anything and they are wicked, sinful, depraved and hateful. You will bow down and worship Jesus, just as every other person who ever lived will on judgement day.

You won't have the opportunity to repent on that day and you will beg for mercy but Christ will show you no mercy and He will cast you into hell where you will be tormented in super hot flames for all eternity. Then you will realize how smart you really are and after a billion years have passed you will be no closer to escaping than when you started.

You are rejecting the only way of salvation because of your foolish pride, you heap up more damnation upon yourself everyday that you live. Now fall on your face and beg forgiveness while you have the opportunity, you never know when your last breath will be so don't gamble with your eternal state.
You sound like a Puritan fanatic from the 17th century. "Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God". Hilarious. You'll be banned eventually, anyway.
 
If that’s the case, I know many people who have the H. S. Indwelling in them who are professed atheists. They are some of the most moral people I know.
Yes of' course they are some of the most moral people you know according to your private judgement, the problem is you may be a reprobate and the judgement of a reprobate comes from a totally depraved mind so it has no authority or power. It's is absolutely meaningless and impotent and it has no baring on anything and no value at all.
 
:rolleyes: What happened to Christians holding up humility as a virtue? Have they replaced it with arrogance? Have they decided it's on them, instead of Jehovah, to judge people?

So you condone people being ******** to each other?

It's not in me, yet I have a very solid foundation of morality. And, again, what's with this arrogance? You think it's not possible for someone without the holy spirit? I'm pretty sure not even Jesus would agree, since he said it's not by acts but by grace through faith we are saved.

My life has been grand without him. I am dependent upon god for nothing.
Humility can be seen as arrogance by unbelievers, we aren't going to judge you. Jesus Christ is the One who will judge you on judgement day, you accuse me of judging you for pointing out what the Bible says.

The Bible says that the best works of the unbeliever as seen as filthy rags in Gods sight, so you may come across as a good moral person to those who can't see inside you and your true motives and spirit but God knows exactly what your true motives and state are.

Yes Jesus did say that we are not saved by works, but by faith in Him but everyone who believes in Him and has faith in Him will do good works because His Holy Spirit comes into them and leads them into all righteousness so they will do good works. They are not saved because they did good works, they do good works because they have been saved. Unbelievers twist it to mean the opposite.

You depend on God for every single thing, everything you have was given to you by God. You have never created a speck of dust and you have never achieved a single thing apart from wicked works, so that's the only thing that you can lay claim to.
 
How about stop with the assumptions? You are incorrect here, and only because you want to take an assumption that is very common for Christians who are reluctant to accept that not everyone has a pleasant experience being Christian. So instead of accepting facts, you all tell yourselves that "this person and that person just wasn't a "true" Christian to begin with."
If the doctrine of Eternal Security is true, I was "saved once" so I'm "always saved." And I know the church loves to promote the idea that those who leave were never saved to begin with, but that stems from the idea that Christians are so sure of themselves that they can't perceive any reason why someone would want to leave. So if they do, without even asking, it is judged--by humans rather than god--their faith was weak and/or non-existent and they weren't saved to begin with. But such thinking is to point out the splinter in the eye of another while ignoring the mote in your own eye, and to allow those with sin to cast the first stone - things Jesus clearly said not to do.


Yet tons of people believe in neither.
And, of course, 'tis better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.


And go back to a life of misery? To again worship a god who's book says a woman is to obey her husband, and neglects to say anything about slavery being wrong?
The Bible is very clear, that true believers are eternally secure and they can never loose their salvation so we can confidentially conclude that all those who are not true believers will never and have never been saved.

The Bible says that people either love God or hate Him, there is no in between or third option. We are all born enemies of God and we all hate Him because of our fallen state of birth and the inheritance of sinful soul. God is the One who saves us, none of us would ever choose to serve God if it was left up to us.

The Bible is crystal clear, God preordained everyone who would be saved before He created the world. He wrote their names in the book of life and He called His chosen the "elect", so we are the only ones who will be saved. The rest are called "the reprobate", they will never be saved and it's impossible for them to become true believers.

The Bible is very clear, it doesn't leave any room for error. I know most people don't like the way God ordained and commanded mankind to obey His rules. Many women don't like the fact that they are to be subservient to their husband and many other rules like homosexuality being a sin that's carries the penalty eternal torment in hell fire and many many other rules and commandments which unbelievers hate.

All true believers love Gods laws and commandments, we love everything He does and every single one of His attributes. I didn't always love Him, I only began loving Him when He converted me. The more I lean about Him, the more I love Him and hate sin so I love living to serve the Lord. He is going to punish all of my enemies with the worst imaginable torture for ever and he is going to bless the true believers with eternal paradise.
 
His suffering was minuscule. He is a god, allegedly, and immortal. His execution wasn't drawn out over days, and he was dead within a day and resurrected a couple days later. He didn't need the faith of mortals because he had the knowledge of the gods of things to come. For all the methods our species has come up with to kill each other, Jesus got off pretty light.

I find it incomprehensible that someone would set up a system that makes them have to go through with such a thing and expect love and pity--while bestowing shame upon them--for going through something that they themselves set up. God could have done anything else, but that is what he wanted. I won't feel any pity for him or sympathy towards him for such foolishness and stupidity. There is no guilt tripping me back into thinking that was any sort of grueling experience. Plenty of Christian saints endured far worse, and Jesus--someone who is immortal and a god--was killed in less than a day (there are those rulers who drew the process out so it took days to kill the condemned) and he spent one lousy weekend in Hell. I myself have spent 32 years with bad knees that have long caused me pain and grief.
Jesus didn't employ His super powers to lessen the pain of the torture and murder that He endured. He had to suffer to make the atonement valid.

There was no other way to pay for the sins of His elect, Gods character and His attributes require perfect justice be served, so there was no other way to pay for the sins of so many than to suffer and die on the cross. Every sin requires blood to be shed to attain forgiveness, God doesn't just wink at sin. He is very strict and His holiness requires blood and suffering for sin.

We need to bare in mind that Jesus was super pure and He felt physical and emotional pain much more than rough defiled sinners do. He also had to endure the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit for 3 days and bare the horrible burden of becoming everyone's sin summed up in Him so you can't imagine how horrible and evil and wicked He would have felt for those 3 days. It's like baring all the evil in hell for 3 days, that's a lot harder for a pure God to cope with than a totally depraved sinner and reprobate.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Humility can be seen as arrogance by unbelievers, we aren't going to judge you.
You, and many other Christians, do and have factually judged me by judging my to not have actually been a Christian.
Jesus Christ is the One who will judge you on judgement day, you accuse me of judging you for pointing out what the Bible says.
I accused you of judging me because you judged me, without even knowing me. It is not unusual for Christians to judge me as having not really worshipped Jehovah or not really being a Christian--such as you have--because I was miserable as a Christian, because I left the Church, didn't believe the same things as they do (you yourself will be judged by some Christians as not being a "true Christian" for adhering to the Hellfire doctrine), and ceased identifying as a Christian. That's basically all any of you know, yet you feel confident enough to judge.
Unbelievers twist it to mean the opposite.
No, you twisted that around yourself to try to get something I didn't say or claim. I pointed out it is not by works we are saved - thus implying that we can still be good and moral people even without the "grace and faith" part.
And what does it really say of people like you, who claim Christians do good because they are filled with the Holy Spirit? Is religion really the only reason you do good? Me, I just do good: I don't need a religion to tell me to help others and refrain from anti-social behaviors. It wasn't the Holy Ghost, after all, that moved me to go into health care, and it's not the Holy Ghost that gave me a great deal of satisfaction of actually helping people and attempting to fix the world more than I broke it.

You depend on God for every single thing,
I depend on god for nothing.
everything you have was given to you by God.
So, god gave me an emotionally abusive and totalitarian mother and an alcoholic father who walked out on night? Do you also want to claim god gave me deformed knees and shins, Aspergers, severe major depression, and social anxiety? Did god give me bullies and fake friends?
What I have I have because I worked for it. God didn't give me a diploma. He didn't give me a car. He isn't giving me a house. The sheets and pillows on my bed? The food I eat? Farmers, factory workers, and truck drivers have given me more than god has.

You have never created a speck of dust and you have never achieved a single thing apart from wicked works,
I have created art, stories, poems, and song. And I didn't know motivating people and helping them to make positive changes in their lives was considered wicked.
 
Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged. Oh Great And Mighty Self-Appointed Speaker for "God".

If god were real? Likely It would have eliminated you as a negative force.

Once again, you keep making a case AGAINST god, because of your ugly attitude.


DUDE! I'm going by YOUR IMGAGE, here! **I** do not have a god, and **I** do not have ANY images of any god!

You really need to get over yourself. I'm simply describing YOUR image! As YOU describe it!

Silly.


Wait.... you just said I had to FEAR god.

Notebook: You can't LOVE something and FEAR it too. It's one OR the other!
God commanded His Saints to judge everyone by their fruits, He said that everyone who doesn't bare good fruit will be cast into hell to burn. So I must judge everyone by their fruits, I'm not to have any fellowship with the workers of unrighteousness.

You are confusing the final judgement which has been reserved for Jesus Christ to judge everyone who has ever lived on judgement day, with the everyday judgement we His saints are commanded to do.

We are commanded to fear God, for our own good. I love my father but I did fear him when I was a child, especially if I done something bad. He would beat me up to teach me a lesson and I became a better person thanks to his beatings.

God chastises all of those he loves, but if He doesn't chastise someone it's because they are a *******. I love my father for chastising me and I love God for chastising me, you just don't know what true love is, that's your problem.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Bible is very clear, that true believers are eternally secure and they can never loose their salvation so we can confidentially conclude that all those who are not true believers will never and have never been saved.
How would that make you feel, to see me in Heaven? You can say I wasn't a true believer all you want, but I was. It might be hard to wrap your brain around, but it was indeed the case.
Jesus didn't employ His super powers to lessen the pain of the torture and murder that He endured. He had to suffer to make the atonement valid.
He had to endure it because that is what God himself set up and demanded. The Bible doesn't even consider other alternatives discussed, only that god immediately jumped to a blood sacrifice. If he's truly omnipotent, it didn't have to be that way.

There was no other way to pay for the sins of His elect, Gods character and His attributes require perfect justice be served, so there was no other way to pay for the sins of so many than to suffer and die on the cross. Every sin requires blood to be shed to attain forgiveness, God doesn't just wink at sin. He is very strict and His holiness requires blood and suffering for sin.
It is only god who decided it should be that way. And he didn't even give us the option to shed our own blood, but rather expects us to feel guilty because he took it upon himself to come up with that system, send himself to go through it, all because that is what he wanted.

It reminds me of the "archeologist" who was looking for Troy, but was so determined to do things his way and get to things that he ended up discovering a city that wasn't Troy because he blasted right through Troy. It only happened because that is how that archeologist wanted things to be.
He felt physical and emotional pain much more than rough defiled sinners do.
Not even the Bible supports that claim.

He also had to endure the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit for 3 days and bare the horrible burden of becoming everyone's sin summed up in Him so you can't imagine how horrible and evil and wicked He would have felt for those 3 days.
What is three days to an immortal?
 
And can YOU imagine a god who does NOT NEED to stoop so low as to capriciously make a Custom Torture PIt?

JUST because I don't "love him back"?

Your god? PURE EVIL.




Indeed. You are clearly as hate-filled as the god you imagine.

How Convenient! Your god hates everything YOU hate!

But this comment by you? Demonstrates everything I need to know about you and your hate-cult.
God didn't create hell to punish everyone who doesn't love Him, He created it to punish unrepentant sinners. There's a big difference between punishing someone for sin and simply not loving Him, but the fact is only those who God saves love Him. Those whom He leaves in their sin, don't love Him because there is no love in them. they are totally depraved, fallen wicked sinners.

You conveniently ignore the lifetime of sin and accuse God of torturing people without just cause. Nobody will be cast into hell who doesn't deserve to go there, Christ describes judgement day for us and He tells us that thew only reason people will be cast into hell is because they didn't know Him.

We are all born dead in sin and if Jesus doesn't save us we will naturally live a life of sin and end up in hell. So that's why Christ says that all those whop don't know Him will be cast into hell.
 
You sound like a Puritan fanatic from the 17th century. "Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God". Hilarious. You'll be banned eventually, anyway.
I'm sorry to see you are offended by the truth, you can run from the truth in this life but you will have to live with the truth for all eternity. The Bible says you will either give your life to Christ now or suffer eternal torment in hell, you either deal with the truth now or suffer the consequences.

I'm glad to suffer persecution for Christ, He deserves nothing less than my whole life, 100% love and obedience.
 
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