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God's will is clear in the Bible?

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Do you get thoroughly annoyed when Christians tell you things like "God's will for you is clear and everything you need to know is in the Bible."

No where does the bible say that about itself.
Like, IIRC, Balaam and his donkey went on a ride because our God (he wasn't a Jew or Hebrew or Israelite) told him to. God then tried to punish him for going on the ride.

God preaches love, including love your enemies
And yet He won't forgive HIS enemy, which shows He just spouts of rules while half asleep or something and like Congress, doesn't read what the bills say.

Can one swear here, btw?
If you don't mind seeing asterisks everywhere. Sometimes, just for fun, I just type in my own asterisks, to keep people guessing. :p

Jesus spoke in parables and expounded them to His closest disciples. If people want to understand the scriptures they can but only with God's help.
I asked God for help with the parables. The problem is, it's abundantly clear Jesus has little to no real experience in any of his chosen metaphors.

You should use your discrimination a bit more here IMO. Don't believe blind what the Bible says here about "God killing"

The Church wanted control, from the very start (Roman Empire was all about Control)
Well, I mean, even before Christianity, you have the prophets who want to keep legal authority for themselves, so "God doesn't want kings", but then you have the prophets writing during the monarchy that were getting good paychecks from the palace, so it was "God chose this king to have a long-lasting lineage even though everything he is would put him in prison".

Other points have been mentioned, but about making the graven images, I don’t recall the Israelites being commanded to do this. They did make a golden calf and worship it, but were very severely punished in this instance. On the other hand, God told them to create two arc angels for the tabernacle, if this is what you are meaning?
And bulls. Now, one bovine image got a lot of people killed, but it was okay to put them in the temple. And the bronze snake. And the little cherub things on the Ark of the Covenant (the one with the rules that say not to have such images). Hypocrisy, thy name is every biblical author.

If hell does indeed exist, God can go there because he can go anywhere that he creates. God is omnipresent which would mean he's present in hell as well.
Plus, Junior sent Him there, as well as himself, for calling people fools. :)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Well, I mean, even before Christianity, you have the prophets who want to keep legal authority for themselves, so "God doesn't want kings", but then you have the prophets writing during the monarchy that were getting good paychecks from the palace, so it was "God chose this king to have a long-lasting lineage even though everything he is would put him in prison".

I do not believe in an external "God" pulling the strings

I do believe in gravitation force keeping things on earth
Similar Laws work on humans; not some external God pulling the strings
It's not "God choose this king to have a long-lasting lineage though everything he is would put him in prison" IMO
The king just had sex with a woman producing lineage, and acting in an adharmic way causing heaps of karma ensuring of "more stuff to work out"
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
If hell does indeed exist, God can go there because he can go anywhere that he creates. God is omnipresent which would mean he's present in hell as well.

What does it mean that God created hell?

...Or is it actually a space that he just remains absent from? Because God can't go to hell, because, being pure love and goodness, His very presence there would turn hell into paradise.

Rather, hell is the complete absence of all grace. It's all bad feelings, pain, sorrow, etc. - but only because God's not there.
 
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danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Do you get thoroughly annoyed when Christians tell you things like "God's will for you is clear and everything you need to know is in the Bible."

No where does the bible say that about itself.

That's ridiculous! The Bible, God, and "Men of God", lead completely opposite examples.

God both broke some of the Commandments in the Ten Commandments and ordered his people to break the rules as well.

One of these Commandments was "thou shalt not kill " (which people say means Thou shalt not murder) and then God goes out murdering people including babies and asking Israelites to do the same thing.

God said "thou shall not make a Graven image", and then later commanded the Israelites to make graven images.

Scripture says God doesn't change in some places, and then says God changed his mind or felt sorry in others

God preaches love, including love your enemies, at one point in scripture, and then commits genocide in another part of scripture.

How can you people say that God's will is clear in the Bible?
In a book that has so many scripture verses that are opposite of other scripture verses, saying "God's will is clear in the Bible" is not even a topic of rational discussion.

Since men of God where sometimes mass murderers in scripture, should we try imitating them?

Should we imitate a god who destroys cities with fire and brimstone and drowns over 99. 9% of people?

If you hear a voice that tells you to kill people, that voice could be God after all. That was one of the examples God left.
As a liberal I have to agree that the Bible is at times contradictory.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
God is like a fountain of pure love energy. Brighter than the big bang.

According to scriptures, nobody can see God and live. In fact, when He approaches, even the angels shield their faces and scream: HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Do you get thoroughly annoyed when Christians tell you things like "God's will for you is clear and everything you need to know is in the Bible."

No where does the bible say that about itself.

That's ridiculous! The Bible, God, and "Men of God", lead completely opposite examples.

God both broke some of the Commandments in the Ten Commandments and ordered his people to break the rules as well.

One of these Commandments was "thou shalt not kill " (which people say means Thou shalt not murder) and then God goes out murdering people including babies and asking Israelites to do the same thing.

God said "thou shall not make a Graven image", and then later commanded the Israelites to make graven images.

Scripture says God doesn't change in some places, and then says God changed his mind or felt sorry in others

God preaches love, including love your enemies, at one point in scripture, and then commits genocide in another part of scripture.

How can you people say that God's will is clear in the Bible?
In a book that has so many scripture verses that are opposite of other scripture verses, saying "God's will is clear in the Bible" is not even a topic of rational discussion.

Since men of God where sometimes mass murderers in scripture, should we try imitating them?

Should we imitate a god who destroys cities with fire and brimstone and drowns over 99. 9% of people?

If you hear a voice that tells you to kill people, that voice could be God after all. That was one of the examples God left.

It seems that you have no clue or idea about why God had certain people killed.

Explain exactly what those people were doing that God had killed ?

Those people were taking their babies and children and throwing them into a blazing fire in Sacrifice to their Stone idol god Moloch.

So the God of the bible went about to stop this non-sense, to correct them in the error of their way. By having their stone idol god Moloch destroyed and those who were destroying their children in sacrifice in the blazing fire, destroyed also.
If people thinks that the God of the bible is going to stand by, watching innocent babies and children being killed, people better think twice on that one. God of the bible did not tolerate it back then, God will not tolerate seeing innocent babies and children being killed in anyway now.
If it takes God to rain down fire and brimstone on those who commit such things against babies and children. God will do whatever it takes, to protect innocent babies and children.
But yet people neglect to see this.

What does it mean ( to love your enemies)
How does a person show love towards their enemies.
Your idea, to love your enemies, is not going to them and loving on them, all the while your enemy is beating the crap out of you, that's called being ignorance.

If my enemy comes at me to beat on me, I will find me a big club and beat them back, that is correcting them in the error of their way, that's how you love your enemies. By Correcting them in the error of their way.

Another way of showing love towards your enemies,
If you see the way your enemies are walking which could lead them to self destruction, Like North Korea, You show them the error of their way.
That now North Korea is becoming a friend to the United States. That's how you love your enemies. You Correct them in the error of their way.

You also said --->( Should we imitate a god who destroys cities with fire and brimstone and drowns over 99. 9% of people?)

You neglected to mention, what was those people doing, that God rained down fire and brimstone on them?
You make it sound as though all God does is go around killing people for no reason at all.
Did you ever stop to think to find out why God did certain things, No you would rather complain, instead of finding out why God did certain things.
They were in committing abomination unto God. God created male and female. And not Tom and Steve Nor Jane and Betty.

God will do whatever it takes, to correct people in the error of their ways.

But yet all you have is people, complaining why does God let this happen, God doesn't let anything happen, it's people who do these things.
God tried to do something about things, but all people can do is complain and Rebellion against God.

Maybe had you put as much emphasis into trying to find out why God did certain things as you do in complaining, you may find out why God did certain things to people.
Do you think it was alright for people to make sacrifices of their babies and children in fire to their stone idol god Moloch.
It seems you complain about God doing certain things, but not trying to find out why the God of the bible tried to stop this
Non-Sense.

But you neglect to say anything about these stone idol god's, that people worship in the killing of their children to make Sacrifices to their stone idol god's.

Why are you not complaining about these stone idol god's that people worship,
As much as you complain about the God of the bible?

As you said --->( Do you get thoroughly annoyed when Christians tell you things like "God's will for you is clear and everything you need to know is in the Bible.")
This shows how little you do know about the bible and God's plan.
Had you known anything about the bible, you would have known why God did certain things in the bible, About people in the worshipping their stone idol god's. In the killing of their children for these stone idol god's.
But it seems all people can do is compain, but not finding out why God of the bible did certain things.
Instead of you saying God killed people, how's come you don't put emphasis into trying to find out why God did those things.
What was those people doing?
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You should use your discrimination a bit more here IMO. Don't believe blind what the Bible says here about "God killing"

The Church wanted control, from the very start (Roman Empire was all about Control)

If you know this, then 1+1 = 2

God never killed anyone. People killed. It was just a simple power game IMO

AND the Church found the perfect way to instill fear in the people by telling "God will kill you if you don't follow the rules of the Church"
[A good trick indeed. After 2000 years the Church it's power game is obvious, but you still fall for it, and believe God did the killings]

You're confusing ths Church, the church, and the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire bought out the church, around the time Constanrine took over (yeah that shield story, I don't buy it). The church is the building and governors of the Chris faith. But the Church is the people (flawed and all) of God.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You're confusing ths Church, the church, and the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire bought out the church, around the time Constanrine took over (yeah that shield story, I don't buy it). The church is the building and governors of the Chris faith. But the Church is the people (flawed and all) of God.

I am not confusing things. You missed the point I was making

I was just making my point "don't blame God for killing". Bible and Church have been too much manipulated, so we don't know which parts are "God-inspired" and which part are "man-created". Don't use the Bible to declare facts about "God doing some killing".
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Ahhh...the kings and prophets and evil men that tell the stories of the scriptures they write about the horrors that their gods do that kill other people in their bible !
And a lot of people believe in those books....amazing !
 

lioncub1503

Seven ate nine
Oooh, come on. If hell was that bad, how do you figure Jesus and the OT Saints were all down there.

Just the deepest pits of hell, for the most evil of evil is absolute torture.

Ok, but where does it say this happened? Where does it say that Jesus when to a pit of fiery tourment?

And bulls. Now, one bovine image got a lot of people killed, but it was okay to put them in the temple. And the bronze snake. And the little cherub things on the Ark of the Covenant (the one with the rules that say not to have such images). Hypocrisy, thy name is every biblical author.
So the bulls. The Israelites weren’t worshiping the bulls, they were using them in worship, sacrificing them to God. I don’t know much about Muslins, but I am pretty sure they don’t worship the mat :) They use it to assist in worship. It’s also like if you donated to Charity, are you worshiping money? The bulls were used to attone for sins, basically to show their devotion to God. I guess like a form of currency in a way.

Bovine image? I don’t know what you are talking about. Do you mean the Ark of the Covenant? Or the golden calf?

The copper serpent was, again, not worshiped. God condemned people for worshiping images and idols, not for making pottery or other objects. The Israelites were disobedient, so God sent a snake to punish them. When they repented, God asked Mosus to make a figure of a snake so that anyone who had been bitten and then looked at the serpent was saved. Notice I said looked, not worshiped. That figure could have been an Xbox stuck on a pole for all we care about, it was about them going out of their way to look at the pole, not worship.

I have just explained about the Cherubs, angels, these were not worshiped. These were not claimed to be a god. God isn’t against people, for example, having a china cat in their bedroom. This is what it was like for the cherubs. They were decoration, fine works of art, and came to be associated with God and of his chariot, but not called God. Israelites did not worship the Cherubs or the ark of the covenant, only the one God. Idolatry, as I mentioned before, is worship of an image or sculpture or claiming that sculpture to be a god. The pagan religions actually worshiped the images, unlike the Israelites.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
...It's a basic Catholic teaching:

I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from there He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.


Amen.

The Apostle's Creed - Prayers - Catholic Online
 

1213

Well-Known Member
…God both broke some of the Commandments in the Ten Commandments and ordered his people to break the rules as well…

I think that is a lie.

One of these Commandments was "thou shalt not kill " (which people say means Thou shalt not murder) and then God goes out murdering people including babies and asking Israelites to do the same thing.

The accurate translation is, don’t murder, which should be obvious by the context.

God said "thou shall not make a Graven image", and then later commanded the Israelites to make graven images.

Please show the scripture?

Scripture says God doesn't change in some places, and then says God changed his mind or felt sorry in others

Feeling sorry is not same as changing ones mind.

God preaches love, including love your enemies, at one point in scripture, and then commits genocide in another part of scripture.

Loving others means that you don’t do wrong things. Giving righteous judgment is not wrong. And loving God doesn’t mean He allows evil to continue forever and make all suffer eternally.

In a book that has so many scripture verses that are opposite of other scripture verses, saying "God's will is clear in the Bible" is not even a topic of rational discussion.

For person who doesn’t understand and don’t remain in truth.

Should we imitate a god who destroys cities with fire and brimstone and drowns over 99. 9% of people?

After you have created life, you might have right to end it, if it turns to evil and does bad things. I think you are too inaccurate and dishonest to imitate God.
 

lioncub1503

Seven ate nine

The verse (with some surrounding verses):
“He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day”

How is prison hell? We call this the abyss, but basically just means a prison for the angels that rebelled and became the demons. Other similar versus state about it being a “great darkness” and other such things, a prison to keep them until God destroys them once and for all, not a fiery hell of torture. I am unsure how this proves the existance of Hell. And that Jesus went there? Preaching to angels in prison doesn’t appear to have any sort of resemblance to Jesus going to Hell.

2 Peter 2:4 “Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.”

Jude 6 also mentions “eternal bonds” (I.e. a prison, not Hell) and “dense darkness”, not bright eternal fire of torture.


...It's a basic Catholic teaching:

was crucified, died and was buried;
He descended into hell;
on the third day He rose again from the dead;

Amen.

The Apostle's Creed - Prayers - Catholic Online

I am not sure what the words some guy made up has to do with Jesus actually going to Hell. Just because someone believes something, doesn’t mean it is right.

To me, a lot of the Catholic beliefs seem to contradict themselves, but maybe I just am not informed enough about them. In this instance, in this case, only bad people go to Hell. Jesus was perfect and without sin, so how could he go to a place of fiery torment? If he was the perfect example to follow, does that mean that Christians should be striving to go to Hell? What hope do they have of heaven if Jesus himself could not go there? Or, maybe there was a misinterpretation, and they should have put ‘descended into Sheol (common grave of mankind, similar usage as Hell)’. And, if Hell isn’t really that bad, then why do the Churches make it out to be? To scare people? And if it really is completely fine, then what Is the point of bad people going there to be punished if it is not punishment?
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Without Knowledge, the angel of light God's will went to hell, and that and that was unholy, and that was because of the devils (different than Lucifer) rebellion.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
The verse (with some surrounding verses):
“He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day”

How is prison hell? We call this the abyss, but basically just means a prison for the angels that rebelled and became the demons. Other similar versus state about it being a “great darkness” and other such things, a prison to keep them until God destroys them once and for all, not a fiery hell of torture. I am unsure how this proves the existance of Hell. And that Jesus went there? Preaching to angels in prison doesn’t appear to have any sort of resemblance to Jesus going to Hell.

2 Peter 2:4 “Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.”

Jude 6 also mentions “eternal bonds” (I.e. a prison, not Hell) and “dense darkness”, not bright eternal fire of torture.




I am not sure what the words some guy made up has to do with Jesus actually going to Hell. Just because someone believes something, doesn’t mean it is right.

To me, a lot of the Catholic beliefs seem to contradict themselves, but maybe I just am not informed enough about them. In this instance, in this case, only bad people go to Hell. Jesus was perfect and without sin, so how could he go to a place of fiery torment? If he was the perfect example to follow, does that mean that Christians should be striving to go to Hell? What hope do they have of heaven if Jesus himself could not go there? Or, maybe there was a misinterpretation, and they should have put ‘descended into Sheol (common grave of mankind, similar usage as Hell)’. And, if Hell isn’t really that bad, then why do the Churches make it out to be? To scare people? And if it really is completely fine, then what Is the point of bad people going there to be punished if it is not punishment?

I prefer to have my scripture interpreted by monks, who devote their entire lives to Jesus through prayer.
 
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Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Ancient scriptures aren't a very convincing way to convey a message to me. Any message embedded in our genetic code would be a much more convincing method of conveying a message for me than some ancient scrolls that could have simply been fabricated from nomadic tribesmen less wiser than most human secularists today . Unfortunately so far, the only message the creator of genetic coding has conveyed to a highly evolved ape like me is the numeric message "037", which signifies a mark of intelligence in life's genetic code invented by a common cosmic ancestor of everybody; but there are no instructions for how people should best live their lives, nor are there any useful messages revealing how to solve any of life's mysteries. .

 
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