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The start of the 'Jewish Sabbat', is Saturday evening, by our Calendar

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That[start of Jewish Sabbath, is 'Friday', to the western calendar, not Saturday.

Note that the first day would begin on 'saturday', on the western Calendar.
Let us be quite clear. The colloquial days of the week begin just after midnight and end precisely at midnight. This is not the same beginnings and ends of Jewish days or Christian liturgical days both of which start at sunset and end the following sunset. That is why I wrote that the Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday at sunset and ends Saturday at sunset. Even the names of the days on the Jewish calendar tell us that this is true. The name for the day that begins Friday sunset and ends Saturday sunset is called “Shabbat” which translates into Sabbath. Indeed the English word Sabbath is derived from this Hebrew word. Whereas the Hebrew name for Sunday is “Yom Rishon”, which translates as “day first” or in English order as the first day (of the week). More literally the “head” day of the week because “head” is also used for “first”.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The Jewish day begininng at sundown, roughly, [Jews, are observing Sabbat, on what on our Calendar, is the 6th day.

A 7th day Sabbat, by our Calendar, would start on Saturday Evening.
I'm not sure what Calendar you go by, but by both the Jewish Calendar, the Gregorian Calendar of the West, and the Julian Calendar of the East, Saturday is the Seventh Day. In Judaism, the day starts at Sundown. So Shabbat, if you are an Orthodox Jew, begins 18 minutes before Sundown on Friday (to give you a few minutes for mistakes) until twilight on Saturday.

In the Early Christian Church, the "solemnity" of the Sabbath was transferred to the "eighth day" because Jesus "rose from the dead on that day." In the second century, Christians were very big on being different from Judaism, and NOT keeping the Sabbath. Of course, that was when the Church became predominantly Gentile (in the mid first century, it was Jewish).

In studying Christianity, my focus was on: the Christian scriptures, the Early Church, Nicea, the Reformation, and beliefs of most common denominations. What happens with this is I can follow the development of teachings such as observance of Sabbath/The Lord's Day.

BTW, Shabbat is simply Hebrew for Sabbath.

So what is "your calendar?" You have me really curious.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
No, Jews(Christians) will probably celebrate it on the day Hebrews do....to be close to God.

You do know keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does nothing. It's only day just like any other day.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.
That now that Christ Jesus has come, We are no longer bound to the 7th day Sabbath.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself.
That now as Christian, we rest in Christ Jesus and not any day of the week.

This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 11:28---"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Therefore as a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what Calendar you go by, but by both the Jewish Calendar, the Gregorian Calendar of the West, and the Julian Calendar of the East, Saturday is the Seventh Day. In Judaism, the day starts at Sundown. So Shabbat, if you are an Orthodox Jew, begins 18 minutes before Sundown on Friday (to give you a few minutes for mistakes) until twilight on Saturday.

In the Early Christian Church, the "solemnity" of the Sabbath was transferred to the "eighth day" because Jesus "rose from the dead on that day." In the second century, Christians were very big on being different from Judaism, and NOT keeping the Sabbath. Of course, that was when the Church became predominantly Gentile (in the mid first century, it was Jewish).

In studying Christianity, my focus was on: the Christian scriptures, the Early Church, Nicea, the Reformation, and beliefs of most common denominations. What happens with this is I can follow the development of teachings such as observance of Sabbath/The Lord's Day.

BTW, Shabbat is simply Hebrew for Sabbath.

So what is "your calendar?" You have me really curious.


You do know keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does nothing. It's only day just like any other day.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.
That now that Christ Jesus has come, We are no longer bound to the 7th day Sabbath.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself.
That now as Christian, we rest in Christ Jesus and not any day of the week.

This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 11:28---"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Therefore as a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Let us be quite clear. The colloquial days of the week begin just after midnight and end precisely at midnight. This is not the same beginnings and ends of Jewish days or Christian liturgical days both of which start at sunset and end the following sunset. That is why I wrote that the Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday at sunset and ends Saturday at sunset. Even the names of the days on the Jewish calendar tell us that this is true. The name for the day that begins Friday sunset and ends Saturday sunset is called “Shabbat” which translates into Sabbath. Indeed the English word Sabbath is derived from this Hebrew word. Whereas the Hebrew name for Sunday is “Yom Rishon”, which translates as “day first” or in English order as the first day (of the week). More literally the “head” day of the week because “head” is also used for “first”.

You do know keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does nothing. It's only day just like any other day.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.
That now that Christ Jesus has come, We are no longer bound to the 7th day Sabbath.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself.
That now as Christian, we rest in Christ Jesus and not any day of the week.

This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 11:28---"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Therefore as a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'm not sure what Calendar you go by, but by both the Jewish Calendar, the Gregorian Calendar of the West, and the Julian Calendar of the East, Saturday is the Seventh Day. In Judaism, the day starts at Sundown. So Shabbat, if you are an Orthodox Jew, begins 18 minutes before Sundown on Friday (to give you a few minutes for mistakes) until twilight on Saturday.

In the Early Christian Church, the "solemnity" of the Sabbath was transferred to the "eighth day" because Jesus "rose from the dead on that day." In the second century, Christians were very big on being different from Judaism, and NOT keeping the Sabbath. Of course, that was when the Church became predominantly Gentile (in the mid first century, it was Jewish).

In studying Christianity, my focus was on: the Christian scriptures, the Early Church, Nicea, the Reformation, and beliefs of most common denominations. What happens with this is I can follow the development of teachings such as observance of Sabbath/The Lord's Day.

BTW, Shabbat is simply Hebrew for Sabbath.

So what is "your calendar?" You have me really curious.
I don't believe that the Biblical Christians were practicing a 'lunar based Calendar', Sabbath.

Verses like, Matthew 28:1

Support my belief, as far as I can tell.

In other words, if a 'saturday sabbath', then I believe they would start it, at sunrise. This transferred over to Sunday, [if they did practice a Saturday sabbath. That is why Christians never had an evening Sabbath time, though, obviously, the night before sort of sets up the Sabbath, or Day of Rest.

Note that three days, then Resurrection, John 2:19, completely matches the Scripture, if they started Shabbat, at roughly sunrise, or early morning.

[[I like both Saturday and Sunday sabbath, the Sunday being of course the day of rest, as noted in Genesis, [and I believe that correlation, to morning start of Sabbath, or Day of rest, as well.

I believe, , either Saturday or Sunday, is fine.

[[I also don't believe that one needs to keep the Sabbath.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
So what is "your calendar?" You have me really curious.

That reference is to the standard western Calendar. Note, either way, the standard judaism sabbath, does not correlate, to the days, in the western Calendar. You are either going into, friday, or sunday, in the western Calendar. Going by day names, on the Western Calendar, starting on saturday, jewish sabbath, you would start on evening of saturday. Currently, jewish sabbath starts on a friday, [in the western calendar. That's all that means. In the western Calendar, we aren't into the seventh day, on a friday.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
At first, this seems obscure, because the current Jewish Sabbath, does cover the 'daytime hours', of Saturday. However, if that is the intent of the sabbath, then why start the current Jewish Sabbath, on the evening, at all. Much more intuitive to thusly start the saturday Sabbath, with the early hours, of saturday. So, if that is the intent, to cover the daytime hours, I believe it is basically a resignation to the idea of the Solar Calendar, configuration.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That reference is to the standard western Calendar. Note, either way, the standard judaism sabbath, does not correlate, to the days, in the western Calendar. You are either going into, friday, or sunday, in the western Calendar. Going by day names, on the Western Calendar, starting on saturday, jewish sabbath, you would start on evening of saturday. Currently, jewish sabbath starts on a friday, [in the western calendar. That's all that means. In the western Calendar, we aren't into the seventh day, on a friday.
The seventh day on the standard Western calendar begins at Midnight on Saturday morning. I don't know where you get the idea that the seventh day in the West is Sunday. It's just not.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You do know keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does nothing. It's only day just like any other day.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.
That now that Christ Jesus has come, We are no longer bound to the 7th day Sabbath.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself.
That now as Christian, we rest in Christ Jesus and not any day of the week.

This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 11:28---"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Therefore as a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week.
I am a Jew, not a Christian. Keeping the Shabbat is part of our covenant with the Lord. We do not believe that you need to keep the Shabbat. Whatever reasons you have for your beliefs is your business.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I don't believe that the Biblical Christians were practicing a 'lunar based Calendar', Sabbath.
Biblical Christians were almost all Jews, practicing a Christianity that was a sect of Judaism. It was in the second century that Christianity really became seperatate anddistinct from, and competitive with Judaism. And btw, the Greco-Roman calendar of that day matched the days of the week with the Jewish days of the week, i.e. the Jewish sixth day was the Greek sixth day.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The seventh day on the standard Western calendar begins at Midnight on Saturday morning. I don't know where you get the idea that the seventh day in the West is Sunday. It's just not.
That isn't 'set', except by when one starts counting, the week. The Genesis Day of Rest, is seventh day, however, not noted by what week configuration, one counts the first day. So, a current Calendar, does not have the actual basis, for that, it simply goes 'backwards', figuring, or counting, from the day, considered the seventh, [by that particular configuration. In other words, there is nothing that actually says, that Sunday isn't the seventh day, that is merely a traditional configuration.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That reference is to the standard western Calendar. Note, either way, the standard judaism sabbath, does not correlate, to the days, in the western Calendar. You are either going into, friday, or sunday, in the western Calendar. Going by day names, on the Western Calendar, starting on saturday, jewish sabbath, you would start on evening of saturday. Currently, jewish sabbath starts on a friday, [in the western calendar. That's all that means. In the western Calendar, we aren't into the seventh day, on a friday.
The standard Western Calendar begins the week at midnight Sunday morning. Thus the seventh day on it is Saturday. Iow the only difference between the weeks on the Western week and the Jewish week is that the Jewish day starts at Sundown and the Western day starts at midnight. Other than that they match.

I did some research and apparently there is an organization called the International Organization for Standardization that wants to move Sunday to the seventh day. It's nonsense. The week has been standardized for thousands of years.

Sunday - Wikipedia
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I am a Jew, not a Christian. Keeping the Shabbat is part of our covenant with the Lord. We do not believe that you need to keep the Shabbat. Whatever reasons you have for your beliefs is your business.

I am a Christian Jew.

In the speaking about the 7th day Sabbath.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.

If we go back to the time of Israel and Moses when they were in the desert of wilderness for 40 years.

Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath.
In the book of Hebrews God had this to say about Israel.
Note that the subject and article is about Israel keeping God's rest in the book of Hebrews chapters 3&4.

Hebrews 3:8-11--"8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9- When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

(This being Israel in the desert of wilderness, for 40 years)

10 -Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways"

( Take note here, that even though Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel still didn't know God's ways. Therefore just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them in knowing God's ways)

11 -So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest"

( Take Note here, God sware in his wrath, Israel shall not enter God's rest.Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. So what we have here is God's rest and the 7th day Sabbath. Just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them as entering God's rest)

Hebrews 4:5-11---"5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest)

( Note here, God saying if Israel shall enter into his rest, nothing about the 7th day Sabbath, Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest)

6 Seeing therefore it remain's that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief)

( Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest, because of their unbelief)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

( Here we find God did limited a certain day, The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus, but as it is, Israel harden their hearts against Christ Jesus)

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day)

( Here we find, For if Jesus had given them (Israel) rest, then would not Jesus afterward have spoken of another day. Jesus never in all the time he was here on Earth ever spoken of another day and including the 1st day of week Sunday worship)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God)

( Note here-"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. This being God's rest. Note what Jesus has said in the book of Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

Note that Jesus said, he will give you rest, Jesus said nothing about the 7th day Sabbath. Only that he, himself will give you rest. As a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week)



10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his)

( Note here, " For he that is entered into his rest" As a Christian, I rest in God, I rest from my physical work, as God rest from his work of creation) I rest in Christ Jesus.

11--"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief)

( Seeing Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people are keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does not mean or constitute that they are entering God's rest. As did Israel in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people keep Sunday as a day of rest in worship, does not mean they entering God's rest either)



1st Corinthians 5:7---"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us"



( Note, that Christ our Passover" The Passover being the High Sabbath of rest. Therefore Christ has become the Christians Rest and not any day.

As Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath to lead Israel to Christ Jesus and that now Christ Jesus has come, Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself, Therefore Christ Jesus has become the Christians Rest and not any day of the week)

( For if keeping a day and thats all you will be doing, is just keeping a day. As Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, But as God sware in his wrath Israel will not enter his rest.

Therefore there remains a rest to the people of God, Christ Jesus our rest.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
God put Israel in charge of this.

Yeah God did put Israel in charge, but Israel failed out in the wilderness.for 40 years Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, but Israel failed to enter God's rest.
Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest.
In the speaking about the 7th day Sabbath.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.

If we go back to the time of Israel and Moses when they were in the desert of wilderness for 40 years.

Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath.
In the book of Hebrews God has this to say about Israel.
Note that the subject and article is about Israel keeping God's rest in the book of Hebrews chapters 3&4.

Hebrews 3:8-11--"8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9- When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

(This being Israel in the desert of wilderness, for 40 years)

10 -Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways"

( Take note here, that even though Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel still didn't know God's ways. Therefore just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them in knowing God's ways)

11 -So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest"

( Take Note here, God sware in his wrath, Israel shall not enter God's rest.Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. So what we have here is God's rest and the 7th day Sabbath. Just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them as entering God's rest)

Hebrews 4:5-11---"5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest)

( Note here, God saying if Israel shall enter into his rest, nothing about the 7th day Sabbath, Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest)

6 Seeing therefore it remain's that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief)

( Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest, because of their unbelief)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

( Here we find God did limited a certain day, The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus, but as it is, Israel harden their hearts against Christ Jesus)

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day)

( Here we find, For if Jesus had given them (Israel) rest, then would not Jesus afterward have spoken of another day. Jesus never in all the time he was here on Earth ever spoken of another day and including the 1st day of week Sunday worship)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God)

( Note here-"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. This being God's rest. Note what Jesus has said in the book of Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

Note that Jesus said, he will give you rest, Jesus said nothing about the 7th day Sabbath. Only that he, himself will give you rest. As a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week)



10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his)

( Note here, " For he that is entered into his rest" As a Christian, I rest in God, I rest from my physical work, as God rest from his work of creation) I rest in Christ Jesus.

11--"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief)

( Seeing Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people are keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does not mean or constitute that they are entering God's rest. As did Israel in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people keep Sunday as a day of rest in worship, does not mean they entering God's rest either)



1st Corinthians 5:7---"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us"



( Note, that Christ our Passover" The Passover being the High Sabbath of rest. Therefore Christ has become the Christians Rest and not any day.

As Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath to lead Israel to Christ Jesus and that now Christ Jesus has come, Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself, Therefore Christ Jesus has become the Christians Rest and not any day of the week)

( For if keeping a day and thats all you will be doing, is just keeping a day. As Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, But as God sware in his wrath Israel will not enter his rest.

Therefore there remains a rest to the people of God, Christ Jesus our rest.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I am a Christian Jew.

In the speaking about the 7th day Sabbath.
The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus.

If we go back to the time of Israel and Moses when they were in the desert of wilderness for 40 years.

Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath.
In the book of Hebrews God had this to say about Israel.
Note that the subject and article is about Israel keeping God's rest in the book of Hebrews chapters 3&4.

Hebrews 3:8-11--"8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9- When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

(This being Israel in the desert of wilderness, for 40 years)

10 -Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways"

( Take note here, that even though Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel still didn't know God's ways. Therefore just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them in knowing God's ways)

11 -So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest"

( Take Note here, God sware in his wrath, Israel shall not enter God's rest.Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. So what we have here is God's rest and the 7th day Sabbath. Just because people keep the 7th day Sabbath does not constitute them as entering God's rest)

Hebrews 4:5-11---"5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest)

( Note here, God saying if Israel shall enter into his rest, nothing about the 7th day Sabbath, Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest)

6 Seeing therefore it remain's that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief)

( Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest, because of their unbelief)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

( Here we find God did limited a certain day, The 7th day Sabbath was to lead Israel to Christ Jesus, but as it is, Israel harden their hearts against Christ Jesus)

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day)

( Here we find, For if Jesus had given them (Israel) rest, then would not Jesus afterward have spoken of another day. Jesus never in all the time he was here on Earth ever spoken of another day and including the 1st day of week Sunday worship)

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God)

( Note here-"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. This being God's rest. Note what Jesus has said in the book of Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"

Note that Jesus said, he will give you rest, Jesus said nothing about the 7th day Sabbath. Only that he, himself will give you rest. As a Christian, I rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week)



10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his)

( Note here, " For he that is entered into his rest" As a Christian, I rest in God, I rest from my physical work, as God rest from his work of creation) I rest in Christ Jesus.

11--"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief)

( Seeing Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people are keeping the 7th day Sabbath, does not mean or constitute that they are entering God's rest. As did Israel in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, Israel was not entering God's rest. Just because people keep Sunday as a day of rest in worship, does not mean they entering God's rest either)



1st Corinthians 5:7---"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us"



( Note, that Christ our Passover" The Passover being the High Sabbath of rest. Therefore Christ has become the Christians Rest and not any day.

As Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath to lead Israel to Christ Jesus and that now Christ Jesus has come, Christ Jesus fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath, by keeping it himself, Therefore Christ Jesus has become the Christians Rest and not any day of the week)

( For if keeping a day and thats all you will be doing, is just keeping a day. As Israel was keeping the 7th day Sabbath, But as God sware in his wrath Israel will not enter his rest.

Therefore there remains a rest to the people of God, Christ Jesus our rest.
I'm not really interested in what the Christians Scriptures have to say to me as Jew. Christianity is another religion. I study it the same way I study Islam or Buddhism or Taoism. IOW just as the Quran has some words of wisdom and some mistakes, so do the Christian scriptures.

I *AM* very much interested in what the Torah has to say to me as a Jew. In terms of the Shabbat, it tells me we keep the Shabbat
1. because Hashem rested on the Seventh Day and
2. as a memorial to being delivered from slavery in

Are you *halakhically* a Jew? Meaning are you born of a Jewish mom? I have to ask because many times Christians are not fully aware of what makes a person a Jew. In fact, some times they even go on about being "true Jews" blah blah blah, so I am forced to check what they mean if one says they are a Jew.

If you are halakhically a Jew, I encourage you to keep the Shabbat for the reasons I gave, and to observe the way that fellow Jews observe it, since we are a People, not a collection of 14 million individuals doing whatever we please

In fact, if you are halakhically a Jew, I encourage you to keep our covenant completely. Normally I don't proselytize, but I make the exception when it comes to fellow Jews. We are OBLIGATED by our covenant and don't have the freedom to mess around with alternative forms of religion the way Gentiles may. We are called to be a priestly nation. You are a fellow yid. We are responsible for one another.

I would like to open a discussion with you on this matter, but only if you are open to it.

Shalom aleiichem

Indigo
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yeah God did put Israel in charge, but Israel failed out in the wilderness.for 40 years Israel was in the keeping the 7th day Sabbath, but Israel failed to enter God's rest.
You keep quoting Hebrews as if it is of relevance to Jews. It is not. What is of relevance to us is Torah (the books of Law) and the Talmud (the commentary on the Law by the sages, with authority given by God per Deuteronomy 17:8-13). If you want to speak to me from the Torah, you are welcome to. Otherwise, it's just going in one ear and out the other. The Christian scriptures are no different to me than the Book of Mormon or the Quran: interesting, yes, but not applicable to me.

Israel sinned greatly, but one thing we never did was loose track of what day the Shabbat was.

Torah tells how to observe the Shabbat, and that is rest, not "enter iinto God's rest."
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I'm not really interested in what the Christians Scriptures have to say to me as Jew. Christianity is another religion. I study it the same way I study Islam or Buddhism or Taoism. IOW just as the Quran has some words of wisdom and some mistakes, so do the Christian scriptures.

I *AM* very much interested in what the Torah has to say to me as a Jew. In terms of the Shabbat, it tells me we keep the Shabbat
1. because Hashem rested on the Seventh Day and
2. as a memorial to being delivered from slavery in

Are you *halakhically* a Jew? Meaning are you born of a Jewish mom? I have to ask because many times Christians are not fully aware of what makes a person a Jew. In fact, some times they even go on about being "true Jews" blah blah blah, so I am forced to check what they mean if one says they are a Jew.

If you are halakhically a Jew, I encourage you to keep the Shabbat for the reasons I gave, and to observe the way that fellow Jews observe it, since we are a People, not a collection of 14 million individuals doing whatever we please

In fact, if you are halakhically a Jew, I encourage you to keep our covenant completely. Normally I don't proselytize, but I make the exception when it comes to fellow Jews. We are OBLIGATED by our covenant and don't have the freedom to mess around with alternative forms of religion the way Gentiles may. We are called to be a priestly nation. You are a fellow yid. We are responsible for one another.

I would like to open a discussion with you on this matter, but only if you are open to it.

Shalom aleiichem

Indigo

But you failed to be a priestly nation. This why God made chosen, to scatter the other 10 tribes of Israel throughout the world.
That only leaves two tribes left in Israel.

Those 10 tribes were scattered throughout the world, some married into different people's. But now are finding out who they really are.
You seem to think one must be born by a woman to be a Jew, which is wrong. God can take the very stones and rise up children to father Abraham.


You see, I know who you are.for Christ Jesus gave fore warning as did his disciples gave warning.

That now many are finding out their true heritage of Israel.
As I have, I am Jew Christian of the tribe Asher of Israel.one of the lost tribes of Israel. I am not alone, many are finding out their true heritage again.

Yeah and thats why Christ Jesus was crucified, Because you didn't see Christ Jesus as the Promise one, to come.

God made Promise to father Abraham that the Promise one would come thru his children.
This is why scripture's speaks, For they are not all Israel which are of Israel.

Christ Jesus being that promise one to come.
For it was those Jews who claim to be Israel crucified the promised one.

I am a Christian Jew of the tribe of Asher of Israel.
I am FaithofChristian.
Faith of Christ The Promise One.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Let us be quite clear. The colloquial days of the week begin just after midnight and end precisely at midnight. This is not the same beginnings and ends of Jewish days or Christian liturgical days both of which start at sunset and end the following sunset. That is why I wrote that the Jewish Sabbath begins on Friday at sunset and ends Saturday at sunset. Even the names of the days on the Jewish calendar tell us that this is true. The name for the day that begins Friday sunset and ends Saturday sunset is called “Shabbat” which translates into Sabbath. Indeed the English word Sabbath is derived from this Hebrew word. Whereas the Hebrew name for Sunday is “Yom Rishon”, which translates as “day first” or in English order as the first day (of the week). More literally the “head” day of the week because “head” is also used for “first”.
Luke 24 :1
John 20:1
1 Corinthians 16:2

Now, here are variants of 'sabbath', interpreted as "week", however notice,
1 Corinthians 16:2
This would actually mean, by the interpretation, presumably, Sunday, [the Christians gathering on Sunday. However, note the usual argument, that Christians did not observe a Sunday Sabbath, until much later.

So, it doesn't mean both.

If it means, one of two Sabbaths, a Saturday, and a Sunday, your argument is wrong.
If it means Sunday, as a non-Sabbath, your argument is wrong, as clearly this is a Sunday, being observed, as a 'Sabbath'.
 
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