Skwim
Veteran Member
Doesn't make any sense, but okay.It's actually a poetic description of king Nebuchadnasser the second.
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Doesn't make any sense, but okay.It's actually a poetic description of king Nebuchadnasser the second.
Interesting. Thanks for the input.From the point of view of Theistic Satanism, probably there is no difference.
Classical understandings:
Lucifer = The king of hell in classical magic texts, King Nebuchadnezzar, or a Roman god symbolic of Venus as the morning star. Modern Luciferians would probably try to make him into something of a Promethean figure rather than directly equate any of these understandings.
Satan = Archangel Samael's title, or those working under him directly. There are more than one.
The Devil = Equivalent to either of the previous, but also the spiritual boogeyman of Christianity. Largely a pejorative statement in reference to the Satan/Lucifer hybrid.
Spiritually, for me, they're synonymous. The medieval texts equated Lucifer functionally but did so in the context of obfuscation in a time where doing a rite to Satan would probably get you killed. If you could put two and two together you'd figure it out anyway by definition. So, I guess it's about what time in history you'd like to go with. I like the Lucifer/Satan equivalency, but I am interested in the old occult.
So the devil and Satan are one in the same being, but what about all the plural forms of "devil," "devils," that appear in the Bible?Rev 12: 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
But I'm sure there are other opinions.
Yeah, Lucifer does seem to stand apart from the other two, although in post #32 InChrist says they're all names for the same entity.In my opinion they are three separate beings. The Devil punishes people in hell. Satan wants to destroy or rule the human race. Lucifer wanted humanity to grow, offering them the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Also, Lucifer means son of the morning and Satan means prince of darkness, not exactly the same thing.
demons or little devils. Same as God and gods.So the devil and Satan are one in the same being, but what about all the plural forms of "devil," "devils," that appear in the Bible?
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I'm pretty sure it means "that evening." In other words,Well, at least the translation you're using.
It says :
What is "even" in this case?!
Use other translations, for comparison!
Lucifer has a double application. So the he who appears as "an angel of light" has the title of Lucifer... but his name is Satan.Yeah, Lucifer does seem to stand apart from the other two, although in post #32 InChrist says they're all names for the same entity.
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Hmmmm . . . .demons or little devils. Same as God and gods.
How do you know this?Lucifer has a double application. So the he who appears as "an angel of light" has the title of Lucifer... but his name is Satan.
In the Bible there are there three supernatural "badies."
The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer.
Luke 4:2 (KJV)
Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Job 2:7 (KJV)
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV)
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
As I ask in my title, what difference, if any, is there between the three? If there isn't any difference then why bothering to use three different names?
It isn't hard to see... in context :Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve,that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, 15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:Hmmmm . . . .gotta say, that's a new one.
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How do you know this?
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Obviously this is in the Bible somewhere. Please point it out if you would.Lucifer and Satan and the Devil are all one and the same. Lucifer was given the name's Satan and Devil.
Doesn't really tell me much, does it.Hermeneutics and exegesis
So at one time there was an angel named Lucifer who what, fell from grace, and changed from an angel into a devil named Satan? Hmmm. So where does this tale come from?
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Well, other translations say the same thing, so it makes little difference which translation I chose for the verses.Well, first the KJV is perhaps the worst possible translation to use in determining this. They are, however, completely different beings in their native beliefs.
How do you come by this information?The Devil is a mish-mash sham of various beings, names, and archetypes. A vague, ever-shifting boogyman meant to instill obedience through fear for the Church.
So Satan is a high-ranking angel still in god's good graces. That's interesting in light of all the bad stuff he's said to be responsible for. Do you suppose that all the bad stuff Satan does is at god's behest?Satan (properly Ha-Satan) is a high-ranking angel in the Hebrew faith who has never fallen from grace or challenged the Throne.
But why do you suppose the Hebrews recognize a Roman deity and bother to put him in their scriptures?Lucifer is the Roman deity personifying the dawn.
WOW! That's a lot of information you've gleaned from one simple verse.Lucifer, Satan and the Devil is an evolving paradigm. Lucifer was the morning star. The morning star symbolizes a place in time where night becomes day, or where unconsciousness interfaces the dawning of consciousness.
Lucifer is analogous to randomizing principle, that is added to the perfection of creation. This type of randomness is not necessarily bad, since it can lead to new things and more creation. In that sense, Lucifer was a creative spirit that unconsciously tweaked natural human instinct; night, to help create self awareness; consciousness or the dawn of a new day. The invention of fire is not natural instinct, but nevertheless was very useful for further human development.
Actually, the devil appears much before Satan is thrown from heaven in Revelations. If I'm not mistaken, devils first appear in Leviticus.Satan is connected to the next phase of change in the human psyche; self awareness. Satan is not thrown from heaven until Revelations. Satan is in heaven as a councilor to God and is in control of the earth and humans, from Adam and Eve, until after Jesus. Satan is connected to law and/or knowledge of good and evil. Law creates an internal polarization in the human psyche, from which randomizing impulses can appear; prohibition can create temptation. Sin taking opportunity through the commandment produces sin of every kind.
The Devil appears when Satan is thrown fro heaven. This transition meant that the randomizing principle is no longer connected to deep unconscious processes, induced by law, that are beyond the conscious mind and will. The Devil has a connection to willpower and choice.
I forget exactly where, but several theology, philosophy, and Church History courses throughout high school and college. However it's pretty evident to see. "His" names are numerous and butchered (e.g. Beelzebub is a perversion of Ba'al Zaebub, the Canaanite deity of death and rebirth), he looks like a satyr or Pan himself, and his supposed actions and motives twist and pull from various non-Christian deities throughout what was the Roman Empire who oppose either the actions or the will of the Church, indirectly or directly.How do you come by this information?
Said by who, though? Some Evangelicals would lay acne at Satan's feet, if it vexed them enough. But yes, Ha-Satan cannot act without prior authorization by Yahweh; this is pretty clearly illustrated in the book of Job, especially once one understand that in Hebrew culture and faith, Ha-Satan's duty is to test the piety and faith of mankind--typically the heroic figures but also the every-man. He doesn't whisper temptations to corrupt and turn people from god, but rather playing a spiritual game of Devil's Advocate (ironic, I know), to ensure that these men who are supposed to be high and holy actually are. It's a screening process, basically.So Satan is a high-ranking angel still in god's good graces. That's interesting in light of all the bad stuff he's said to be responsible for. Do you suppose that all the bad stuff Satan does is at god's behest?
You won't find the name Lucifer in Hebrew scriptures. You only find that in translations by Roman Christians, which then trickled down to every translation of the bible out there. The Old Testament of the bible is so far removed and altered from the Torah that they're practically completely different texts.But why do you suppose the Hebrews recognize a Roman deity and bother to put him in their scriptures?
As @Hockeycowboy said in post 5, persons are called by descriptives names. It is not more a name than it is a description, representing the character or role of the person.In the Bible there are there three supernatural "badies."
The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer.
Luke 4:2 (KJV)
Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Job 2:7 (KJV)
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV)
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
As I ask in my title, what difference, if any, is there between the three? If there isn't any difference then why bothering to use three different names?
You have to take it in context:Obviously this is in the Bible somewhere. Please point it out if you would.
Doesn't really tell me much, does it.
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devil is from ''diavolos''. in greek diavolos is slanderer. when christianity was introduced to greeks they identified satan with diavolos because diavolos/slanderer was the highest evil.The Devil, Satan, and Lucifer.