Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Note, the Blessed Apostle Paul, does not actually say Abraham, he writes, Abram.
[Translated into Abraham, contextually, for some reason.
[Translated into Abraham, contextually, for some reason.
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You seem to put up as down and down as up. The ruler of the world is not Yeshua (John 14:30). The tare seed would be the message of the "enemy" (Mt 13:25), the false prophet Paul, which is you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:3), but be changed in a twinkling of an eye into incorruptible. "Every one will die for his own iniquity" (Jeremiah 31:30). As for 1 Corinthians 15, are you a Mormon, and baptized for the dead? (1 Cor 15:29)
Verses?
Are you saying that the new covenant , isn't the Abrahamic Covenant, to the Gentiles?
Is the Apostle Paul, unaware, of the standard teaching, that Abraham, [Abram, was instructed to circumcise, via the Covenant?
It sure seems like it.
Paul was Jewish, hence customary [Mosaic law, or even 'added law', per The Book of Galatians, thusly, that would be expected.If Paul was un-aware then how does one explain Paul's words at Philippians 3:5
I have a feeling that you already know 1st Cor. 15:29 is in connection to Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12.
Which has Nothing to do with being baptised for a person who has already died.
No living person can repent and dedicate for a dead person because the person himself before his death would have to make that dedication and public baptism as Jesus' living followers did.
I find the Bible teaches about two (2) resurrection types.
Those who died before Jesus died (John 3:13) can only have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to live life on Earth.
Those, like the ones who Jesus made a contract with at Luke 22:28-30, are the ones called to heavenly life.
They are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection to heaven as per Revelation 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
The rest of mankind could be part of a future or later resurrection as mentioned at Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Please notice that in that verse the ' future tense ' is used because it says there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....'
So, those called to heaven will Not have to stay 'asleep in death' as the rest do at that coming time of 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23. Please notice the time frame for those ' first fruits ', those of Revelation 20:6.
If you'd like an explanation of why Mormons baptize for the dead, here it is.The time frame for Revelation 20:6 is predicated by "will reign for a thousand years", which makes it at the beginning of the millennium. The 2nd resurrection is for the great white judgment, which is 1000 years later. The other part of your twisted discourse doesn't address why Paul, or his followers, the Mormons, get baptized for the dead.
If you'd like an explanation of why Mormons baptize for the dead, here it is.
I disagree with standard Christianity, concerning what is commonly accepted, as the law, and commonly accepted as all being accordance, with what Moses presented, or, even if what Moses presented.
•what does 'law' mean, to the Christians
It clearly does not mean, the same thing, to the Christians, as it does, to the priests. In Galatians, noted as a "foreign curse", outright, and, not considered by the Christians, to be given to Moses, by their G'd.
Galatians 3:20
Romans 4:4
Romans 4:2
• Did the Christians consider what is commonly considered, to be the 'law', in standard Bibles, as actually, what Moses presented.
This literally cannot be, because the Christians, supported Moses, and argued on behalf of Moses, saying that the priests, were disobeying, Moses.
Acts of the Apostles 7:35
• Why is some of the law, considered correct, by various Christians, if the law, isn't wholly correct.
The Christians in the Bible, having different beliefs, regarding what is presented in standard Bibles, as the law, from the priests, in essence have their own beliefs, concerning this. In other words, a correlation between what is presented in standard Bibles, as being given to Moses, [the law, textually, definitely does not correlate, to Christian belief.
Acts of the Apostles 2:39
Hence, interpretation is needed, if one does not want to consider the entire law, as presented in standard Bibles, as being wholly false. This interpretation may vary, and in fact, may even vary in the Bible. What doesn't vary, is that the law, as presented in standard Bibles, and, often interpreted, as direct from the Biblical G'd, of the Christians, is definitely not considered as such, by the Biblical Christians.
Well, that's certainly one interpretation. Many Christians, however, believe that the baptism referred to in the Bible as "John's Baptism," or baptism for the remission of sins. It was the baptism by water that Jesus Christ himself received, even though He was completely without sin, but did to "fulfill all righteousness," and that He commanded us to receive. Baptism of the spirit follows, as described in the 19th chapter of Acts, and is received by the laying on of hands.Thank you for your reference. Although the thoughts of the other poster were more interesting. The problem is that Yeshua was to baptize in the Holy Spirit and fire (Matthew 3:11), and be the source of living water (John 4:14).
John 4:14
But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life."
Well, that's certainly one interpretation. Many Christians, however, believe that the baptism referred to in the Bible as "John's Baptism," or baptism for the remission of sins. It was the baptism by water that Jesus Christ himself received, even though He was completely without sin, but did to "fulfill all righteousness," and that He commanded us to receive. Baptism of the spirit follows, as described in the 19th chapter of Acts, and is received by the laying on of hands.
I'd have to say that when we are confirmed and receive the Holy Ghost, there is a promise that He (i.e. the Holy Ghost) will be a "constant companion" as long as the individual is striving to be living in such a way that he or she is worthy of His presence. In other words, we must "endure to the end," which essentially means doing our best to keep God's commandments at all times, remembering Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf and continuing to repent each and every time we fall short of being the kind of person God has given us the potential to be. We see the Holy Ghost as providing the strength for us to do that, but it's not an automatic thing. It requires effort and commitment on the individual's part.I am thinking that "many" (Matthew 7:13) who are baptized do not receive of the Spirit, or the Spirit quickly leaves due to unclean living conditions. The "brood of vipers" repented, confessed their sins, and were baptized, yet were told to produce "good fruit" or prepare to be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:7 &10). What warrantee does your church give you regarding you baptism and laying on of hands. Do the Latter Day Saints give the same warrantee, and is it any good?
I'd have to say that when we are confirmed and receive the Holy Ghost, there is a promise that He (i.e. the Holy Ghost) will be a "constant companion" as long as the individual is striving to be living in such a way that he or she is worthy of His presence. In other words, we must "endure to the end," which essentially means doing our best to keep God's commandments at all times, remembering Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf and continuing to repent each and every time we fall short of being the kind of person God has given us the potential to be. We see the Holy Ghost as providing the strength for us to do that, but it's not an automatic thing. It requires effort and commitment on the individual's part.
Nothing Constantine said has any bearing on us. We do our best to keep all of God's commandments, though. Those we are baptized for can still feel remorse for their sins; they can still repent of them and realize that without Jesus Christ's Atonement, they will remain forever separated from God. We believe that spirits remain cognizant after death, so they can certainly at least learn to control their negative thoughts and desires after they receive the baptism we do for them.And what commandments do you keep? The 10 Commandments of God, or the commandments of the beast with two horns like a lamb (Constantine)? In what way do those you are baptized for supposedly keep the commandment?
Nothing Constantine said has any bearing on us. We do our best to keep all of God's commandments, though. Those we are baptized for can still feel remorse for their sins; they can still repent of them and realize that without Jesus Christ's Atonement, they will remain forever separated from God. We believe that spirits remain cognizant after death, so they can certainly at least learn to control their negative thoughts and desires after the receive the baptism we do for them.
Apparently, you see religious artwork (sculpture, in particular) as a "graven image." I've seen a lot of beautiful religious sculpture in my life, including the beautiful reproduction of Danish sculptor Bertel Thorvaldsen’s "Christus" which is in one of the visitors' centers on Temple Square. I can't imagine that God would object to such magnificent and moving artwork, but if you feel otherwise, I respect your right to do so. As a Mormon, I don't worship anyone except the God who created me. I do not take his name in vain and observe the Sabbath as a day of worship and rest. Mormons don't accept the Nicene Creed or any of the other early Church creeds, so your criticisms of any religious practices Constantine established are really neither here nor there, as far as I'm concerned.The Commandments Yeshua kept, those of the Law and the testimonies, included to not have graven images, have false gods before me, to not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, and to keep the Sabbath. I don't know, it seems that Constantine's Nicene Council introduced a trio of gods, and included worshipping the goddess Astarte on her holy day of Easter. His decree of 321 AD required the keeping of the day of his sun god, Sol Invictus, on the day of the sun, Sunday, as a day of rest. It also seems to me that your temple in Salt Lake has a graven image located on the top. It also appears that you get your 367 AD NT canon from the Roman church, which Constantine instituted at his convened Council of Nicaea.
Apparently, you see religious artwork (sculpture, in particular) as a "graven image." I've seen a lot of beautiful religious sculpture in my life, including the beautiful reproduction of Danish sculptor Bertel Thorvaldsen’s "Christus" which is in one of the visitors' centers on Temple Square. I can't imagine that God would object to such magnificent and moving artwork, but if you feel otherwise, I respect your right to do so. As a Mormon, I don't worship anyone except the God who created me. I do not take his name in vain and observe the Sabbath as a day of worship and rest. Mormons don't accept the Nicene Creed or any of the other early Church creeds, so your criticisms of any religious practices Constantine established are really neither here nor there, as far as I'm concerned.
Okay, I get it. It sounds as if you believe in a literal seven (24-hour) day creation, and mankind's ability to have maintained a perfect record of each 7-day week since God took a "day of rest" after completing the Creation. See, to me, neither of those concepts make much sense. I do not believe in a young earth, a 7-day creation or perfect record keeping since "the beginning." I believe that God wants us to observe a day of rest once a week, to set aside that day as one where we worship Him and try to refocus on the blessings He's given us. I don't believe that He is so petty as to care whether we do that on a Friday, a Saturday or a Sunday, as long as we do it. Mormons are definitely committed to keeping the Sabbath Day holy, but we do observe it on Sunday, in commemoration of the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead.The 7th day of the week, Saturday, is the Sabbath. Unless observation has failed me, the Mormons keep the Roman Catholic church's Lord's day, which is the day of the sun, Sunday, the day instituted by Constantine in 321 AD. Per Constantine's decree, one could not buy or sell on his god's day of the sun, now known as the blue laws. A graven image, no matter how much gold and silver is applied, remains a graven image (Revelation 9:18-21), none of them can "see, hear nor walk". The Mormons also accept the unholy Roman Catholic Cannon as holy. That means they treat the tare seed the same as the "good seed". A little leaven will ruin the whole loaf. As an aside, we are approaching the 7th millennium which is representative of the 7th day, the day of rest, and the 1000 years of rest for God. The 8th day, the day of the sun, represents the time of rest for the wicked, which is known as the 2nd death, the great white throne judgment.