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Love your enemies. Really!?!

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Mathew 25:40 has always been my favorite verse in regards to christian actions. Whatever you do for someone else you do for christ.

So if you dont love your enemy, you dont love christ. Separating god, christ, believer, and people leads to a lot of hurt from a christian scriptual perspective.

Once you understand what you do for others has a direct affect on christ, Id assume people would think twice in what they do...

and think more of what they can do, love their enemies and even better dont call them enemies. You call them an enemy, you are one too. Change perspective helps see others as ones self.

Takes time and practice.

Here's what you said ---> So if you dont love your enemy, you dont love christ. Separating god, christ, believer, and people leads to a lot of hurt from a christian scriptual perspective"

What does Christ Jesus mean exactly by
( Love your enemies)
What Christ Jesus doesn't mean, that you stand there while your enemy Is beating on you. That's not loving your enemy, that's being a fool to stand there while your enemy is beating on you.

What Christ Jesus does mean, that you correct them in the error of their way.
That's how you love your enemies.

If you see your enemy going in the wrong way, that leads to eternal death, you correct them in the error of their way. That's how you love your enemies.

If your enemy comes at you to beat on you, you pickup a club and knock them back, correcting them in the error of their way.

You show them to have respect and you will give respect back in return. That's how you love your enemies.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Here's what you said ---> So if you dont love your enemy, you dont love christ. Separating god, christ, believer, and people leads to a lot of hurt from a christian scriptual perspective"

What does Christ Jesus mean exactly by
( Love your enemies)
What Christ Jesus doesn't mean, that you stand there while your enemy Is beating on you. That's not loving your enemy, that's being a fool to stand there while your enemy is beating on you.

What Christ Jesus does mean, that you correct them in the error of their way.
That's how you love your enemies.

If you see your enemy going in the wrong way, that leads to eternal death, you correct them in the error of their way. That's how you love your enemies.

If your enemy comes at you to beat on you, you pickup a club and knock them back, correcting them in the error of their way.

You show them to have respect and you will give respect back in return. That's how you love your enemies.

I read it all.

How does this relate to what you do for others, you do to christ?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg , @Unveiled Artist.
I totally understand your point of view.
You are saying, "Don view the person as an enemy."
Jesus is saying, "love your enemy. Don't be the enemy."

Consider both these perspectives in reality.
Think of a female, that is not in the slightest drawn to frogs.
So someone says to her, just don't view the frog as a frog.
So in her mind she repeats, "This is not a frog. This is not a frog." Till she convinces herself it is not a frog, or so she thinks, and she allows the person to place the frog on her leg.
Cool right?
Now change frog to centipede.
animated-smileys-laughing-002.gif

Just a little humor there... but you see the problem?

If she accepts the reality, but at the same time understands the reality, she doesn't have to smack the thing, or run screaming... unless of course, she must.

a) The person trying to harm you, is an enemy, but in your mind - you tell yourself - the person is not your enemy. In reality, the person is still your enemy.

b) The person trying to harm you, is an enemy, but even though you know this, you love that person, that is, you don't harbor animosity toward them. You are not their enemy.
God has enemies. He knows they are people that hate him, but he does not hold back good from them. He continues to show them love.

This is the point of view I am looking at.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I read it all.

How does this relate to what you do for others, you do to christ?


If you love those who love you, you do for Christ, for Christ loves those who loves him.
For there are those, who do not love Christ, and are found being cast into the lake of fire.
All because they loved the cares of this world, more than their love for Christ Jesus.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Here's what you said ---> So if you dont love your enemy, you dont love christ. Separating god, christ, believer, and people leads to a lot of hurt from a christian scriptual perspective"

What does Christ Jesus mean exactly by
( Love your enemies)
What Christ Jesus doesn't mean, that you stand there while your enemy Is beating on you. That's not loving your enemy, that's being a fool to stand there while your enemy is beating on you.

What Christ Jesus does mean, that you correct them in the error of their way.
That's how you love your enemies.

If you see your enemy going in the wrong way, that leads to eternal death, you correct them in the error of their way. That's how you love your enemies.

If your enemy comes at you to beat on you, you pickup a club and knock them back, correcting them in the error of their way.

You show them to have respect and you will give respect back in return. That's how you love your enemies.
Hey Faithofchristian.
You said:
If your enemy comes at you to beat on you, you pickup a club and knock them back, correcting them in the error of their way.
I actually pictured that in my mind, and couldn't help but find it funny.
animated-smileys-laughing-002.gif


How do you understand the following verses in Matthew 5:43-48, and Romans 12:17-21
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hm.
If you love those who love you, you do for Christ, for Christ loves those who loves him.

Yes... how is that different than what I said?

For there are those, who do not love Christ, and are found being cast into the lake of fire

How do you live as a christian thinking of people in that way and defined by their future not their present?

Is it better that a person should lie and go to heaven or tell the truth and go to hell?

What is the value of honesty to christ?

All because they loved the cares of this world, more than their love for Christ Jesus.

I dont see the world negatively. It does not help me as a spiritual person to see you, my neighbor, and a murderer in different categories as if we are not all humans.

The love of jesus christ you present means that jesus love is conditional and makes believers critical of those who do not believe rather than seeing them in love regardless where you think they will end up.

But, then, I dont understand how you can love your neighbor as christ but then tell them if you dont receive his love, you go to hell.

A contradiction, dont you think?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg , @Unveiled Artist.
I totally understand your point of view.
You are saying, "Don view the person as an enemy."
Jesus is saying, "love your enemy. Don't be the enemy."

Consider both these perspectives in reality.
Think of a female, that is not in the slightest drawn to frogs.
So someone says to her, just don't view the frog as a frog.
So in her mind she repeats, "This is not a frog. This is not a frog." Till she convinces herself it is not a frog, or so she thinks, and she allows the person to place the frog on her leg.
Cool right?
Now change frog to centipede.
animated-smileys-laughing-002.gif

Just a little humor there... but you see the problem?

If she accepts the reality, but at the same time understands the reality, she doesn't have to smack the thing, or run screaming... unless of course, she must.

a) The person trying to harm you, is an enemy, but in your mind - you tell yourself - the person is not your enemy. In reality, the person is still your enemy.

b) The person trying to harm you, is an enemy, but even though you know this, you love that person, that is, you don't harbor animosity toward them. You are not their enemy.
God has enemies. He knows they are people that hate him, but he does not hold back good from them. He continues to show them love.

This is the point of view I am looking at.

Thats odd. Seeing and naming a frog we go by its nature: body, how origin, and so forth.

Enemy isnt the same. Its a label we place on people who do more terrible crimes than say I hit you on the head with a basket ball. The term enemy has a more negative connotation that defines the person. So, I dont see a persons actions as their nature.

When you love your enemy, you already defined him seperate from yourself. You made her a greater sinner than you as if you are never an enemy.

Life isnt that bias.

So, if you hit me, you are not my enemy. Why? Because it depends on how I see it not you. I dont have enemies; I dont have people I define by their actions. Thats just not me.

The persons nature isnt an enemy like one would define a living X as a frog. The two doesnt relate. One defines the action in relation to the person. The other describes the person in relation to its physical and mental nature not his actions.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hm.


Yes... how is that different than what I said?



How do you live as a christian thinking of people in that way and defined by their future not their present?

Is it better that a person should lie and go to heaven or tell the truth and go to hell?

What is the value of honesty to christ?



I dont see the world negatively. It does not help me as a spiritual person to see you, my neighbor, and a murderer in different categories as if we are not all humans.

The love of jesus christ you present means that jesus love is conditional and makes believers critical of those who do not believe rather than seeing them in love regardless where you think they will end up.

But, then, I dont understand how you can love your neighbor as christ but then tell them if you dont receive his love, you go to hell.

A contradiction, dont you think?


The love of Christ is conditional.
Christ did say in John 14:15--"If you love me, keep my commandments"

There's the condition to Christ love, by keeping his commandments.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The love of Christ is conditional.
Christ did say in John 14:15--"If you love me, keep my commandments"

There's the condition to Christ love, by keeping his commandments.

Yes. But how are you spiritually growing in the teaching of peoples future state and not present?

Is it better to lie and go to heaven or tell the truth and go to hell?

Whats the value of honesty to christ?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hm.


Yes... how is that different than what I said?



How do you live as a christian thinking of people in that way and defined by their future not their present?

Is it better that a person should lie and go to heaven or tell the truth and go to hell?

What is the value of honesty to christ?



I dont see the world negatively. It does not help me as a spiritual person to see you, my neighbor, and a murderer in different categories as if we are not all humans.

The love of jesus christ you present means that jesus love is conditional and makes believers critical of those who do not believe rather than seeing them in love regardless where you think they will end up.

But, then, I dont understand how you can love your neighbor as christ but then tell them if you dont receive his love, you go to hell.

A contradiction, dont you think?

Nope not at all, First who's your neighbor?

Alot of people thinks the people who lives next door, is their neighbor.

But what does the bible consider what a neighbor is?

Let's for say, that there are two person going to a church, the one is a member of the church, which is considered a brother.

Now the other person is not a member of the church, but they go to the church every way week. This one is the neighbor to those in the church.
Once they join the church, then they become a member and a brother. No more to be considered a neighbor. But a brother in Christ Jesus.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Nope not at all, First who's your neighbor?

Alot of people thinks the people who lives next door, is their neighbor.

But what does the bible consider what a neighbor is?

Let's for say, that there are two person going to a church, the one is a member of the church, which is considered a brother.

Now the other person is not a member of the church, but they go to the church every way week. This one is the neighbor to those in the church.
Once they join the church, then they become a member and a brother. No more to be considered a neighbor. But a brother in Christ Jesus.

Neighbor, in English, means someone you know so it can be a brother, friend, or well known stranger. Its the context.

So, brother would fit in that definition in context.

That still doesnt answer my questions.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yes. But how are you spiritually growing in the teaching of peoples future state and not present?

Is it better to lie and go to heaven or tell the truth and go to hell?

Whats the value of honesty to christ?

Do you really believe that people will be able to pull that over on Christ. That Christ will not see thru the lie and truth.

Well if they were doing what is right, Than Christ wouldn't cast them into the lake of fire. But seeing they taken to be on the side with Satan against Christ.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Neighbor, in English, means someone you know so it can be a brother, friend, or well known stranger. Its the context.

So, brother would fit in that definition in context.

That still doesnt answer my questions.

Were not talking about what's in English for neighbor.
But who's the neighbor according to the bible.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Do you really believe that people will be able to pull that over on Christ. That Christ will not see thru the lie and truth.

Question with a question?

Well if they were doing what is right, Than Christ wouldn't cast them into the lake of fire. But seeing they taken to be on the side with Satan against Christ.

The question was, if they lie and go to heaven would that be better if than they go to hell for honesty?

Also, how does this teaching about god help you grow spiritually?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Were not talking about what's in English for neighbor.
But who's the neighbor according to the bible.

Reread what I said.

Also, you are going off english translations so you use english grammar and context (just as translators did) so you understand the bible in the language you are most fluent.

Neighbor: Neighbor in context and English is

1. When referring to someone you know

a. a friend
b. a brother
c. a well knowing stranger

It is used in the biblical context to express the relationship between one believer and another in christ.

Brothers.

So in the biblical context: neighbor means brother
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
How exactly are they going to lie to Christ that Christ wouldn't see they their lie.

Thank you for taking time to ask...

For example, I am not christian. I dont believe god exist, nor heaven, or hell, or human sacrifice.

If god came and asked -why didnt you believe?-- and I honestly told him Why, then I would understand why he would throw me into hell.

My honesty didnt save me, but the fact I was honest made me more comfortable my consequence.

Now if I were to lie to god and say hey, I loved you from the start. We were pals.

Would god ignore that lie?

And would I go to heaven just because I lied and said I had faith in him when I had not?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In other words, @Faithofchristian

If god asked me face to face why didnt I believe

If I am honest, then I go to hell.

If I lie, do I go to hell or heaven?

What is the value of honesty to christ to where my lies may or may not determine my eternal future?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Thats odd. Seeing and naming a frog we go by its nature: body, how origin, and so forth.

Enemy isnt the same. Its a label we place on people who do more terrible crimes than say I hit you on the head with a basket ball. The term enemy has a more negative connotation that defines the person. So, I dont see a persons actions as their nature.

When you love your enemy, you already defined him seperate from yourself. You made her a greater sinner than you as if you are never an enemy.

Life isnt that bias.

So, if you hit me, you are not my enemy. Why? Because it depends on how I see it not you. I dont have enemies; I dont have people I define by their actions. Thats just not me.

The persons nature isnt an enemy like one would define a living X as a frog. The two doesnt relate. One defines the action in relation to the person. The other describes the person in relation to its physical and mental nature not his actions.
Okay. Then I have to substitute frog and centipede with "dangerous".
I think that's a label, so it should work. :)

I see how you are looking at it now.
You don't see enemy by definition, so enemy doesn't exist from your point of view. Whatever one does, doesn't prompt you to label them. So if someone acts hypocritical, they are not a hypocrite. If they act deceitfully, they are not deceitful. If they lie and cheat, they are not liars and cheaters. If they murder, they are not murderers...
They are just people.

:astonished: Man... you are a boss.
Have you ever had to deal with someone who tells you things that are not true, and carry away things that don't belong to them, without asking permission?
How would you handle a situation where a person like that offers to keep house for you, while you take a trip for a week?
Say, you really are in need of someone to do that for you, and they volunteered.

You said:
When you love your enemy, you already defined him seperate from yourself. You made her a greater sinner than you as if you are never an enemy.
Do you consider us sinners?
 
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