The Trinity in Luke 2:40-56

[rrobs]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

 

[nPeace]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

That sounds similar to John 1:1, 2
In the beginning was God, and God was with God. And God was God. God was in the beginning with God.

 

[Kenny]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

no

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

Really?

 

[Ellen Brown]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

NOPE! I started out a non before I even knew what that was. Then one day some fool told me that God and Jesus were one. I told the person that I didn't see it that way, and he said I did not have salvation. Who was he to say, is he God? Not ever planning to back down on this.

 

[shunyadragon]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you tr.eated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

Bad translation

 

[Windwalker]

Yes. Nonduality makes no sense using dualistic language. You can do the same thing with God himself, talking how the Omnipresent God isn't certain places, like in us. It's ridiculous when you think about it. Yet, this is how all Christians speak of God, "up there", and such. A pure contradiction of terms. God is everywhere, but not everywhere.....

 

[74x12]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

If God is revealed only to the few and if God hides in a cloud and in thick darkness. Then why is it any surprise to the world that He is not easily known? (1 John 3:1-6)

Isaiah 29:14
Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

I'm not trinitarian but Jesus is God and you're ignoring the message of the scriptures about the Messiah. If you would let the holy Spirit lead you then you would see that without a doubt the Messiah is God manifest. The carnal mind cannot comprehend nor grasp the wisdom of God. God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. He has hidden these things from the wise and prudent but revealed them unto babies.

If it was so easy to understand who the Father or the Son is then why would Jesus say that only the Son can show people who the Father is?

Luke 10:21-22
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

 

[nPeace]

If God is revealed only to the few and if God hides in a cloud and in thick darkness. Then why is it any surprise to the world that He is not easily known? (1 John 3:1-6)

Isaiah 29:14
Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

I'm not trinitarian but Jesus is God and you're ignoring the message of the scriptures about the Messiah. If you would let the holy Spirit lead you then you would see that without a doubt the Messiah is God manifest. The carnal mind cannot comprehend nor grasp the wisdom of God. God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. He has hidden these things from the wise and prudent but revealed them unto babies.

If it was so easy to understand who the Father or the Son is then why would Jesus say that only the Son can show people who the Father is?

Luke 10:21-22
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

You are correct that it is not hard for those with God's spirit to understand him. Rather it is the ones without the spirit that don't.
Matthew 16:13-17
13 When he had come into the region of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

The spirit of the father revealed that Jesus is the son of God.
That's not wrong, is it?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Yes. Nonduality makes no sense using dualistic language. You can do the same thing with God himself, talking how the Omnipresent God isn't certain places, like in us. It's ridiculous when you think about it. Yet, this is how all Christians speak of God, "up there", and such. A pure contradiction of terms. God is everywhere, but not everywhere.....

There are several denominations that are Non-trinitarian. One of them is the Mormons, and then there are JWs, Christian Scientists and several others. This is sort of like your big brother telling you his socks don't stink. Some think to say that certain denominations are not Christians. What right do they have to say that? OK, lets throw the Catholics in because of Transubstantiation? Oh, what about those who won't let non members share sacrament with them?

I say that any "Christian" group who seeks to exclude anyone is likely satanic.

 

[Katzpur]

That sounds similar to John 1:1, 2
In the beginning was God, and God was with God. And God was God. God was in the beginning with God.

I'm just curious how the JW's Bible translates Hebrews 1:8, which in the KJV states, "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

 

[Willamena]

If Jesus is God, Luke 2:40-56 could (should?) be read as,

"Now the parents of God went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when God was twelve years old, they went up according to custom and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, God stayed behind in Jerusalem. The parents of God did not know it, but supposing God to be in their company they went a day's journey, and they sought God among their kinsfolk and acquaintances and when they did not find God, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking God. After three days they found God in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions and all who heard God were amazed at the understanding of God and His answers. And when they saw God they were astonished and the mother of God said to him, "God, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously." And God said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in the house of my Father?" And they did not understand the saying which God spoke to them. And God went down with them and came to Nazareth and God was obedient to them and the mother of God kept all these things in her heart. And God increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man."
​

That very same thing happened to my friend just yesterday. She went to the mall, lost her kid, and when she returned she found him at Second Cup, talking to an old man and listening to his stories. And she said to her son, "What up? We thought you were lost," and he said, "I was here. I am never lost while I'm in the world." And she slapped him upside the head, and took him home.

 

[rrobs]

NOPE! I started out a non before I even knew what that was. Then one day some fool told me that God and Jesus were one. I told the person that I didn't see it that way, and he said I did not have salvation. Who was he to say, is he God? Not ever planning to back down on this.

I meant for the OP to be sarcastic. I just wanted to show how ridiculous it is to make Jesus God. If he were God the verses in Luke would be but one of many that wouldn't make sense. The scriptures say Jesus is the son of God. So are we. By simple logic neither can be their own father, so neither is God.

 

[rrobs]

Bad translation

Of course. It's sarcasm, meant to show how ridiculous the trinity is.

 

[shunyadragon]

Of course. It's sarcasm, meant to show how ridiculous the trinity is.

Talking about ridiculous you never answered the question: Do you believe that Noah's Flood is a real historical event?

 

[rrobs]

I'm just curious how the JW's Bible translates Hebrews 1:8, which in the KJV states, "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

I'm not a JW.

Heb 1:8 is a quote from Ps 45:6. Here is the very next verse :

Ps 45:7,

Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
​

If Jesus were God almighty, then who is his god?

People have one idea on what the word "god" means, but it's often not the same way the scriptures use it. Jesus called the Hebrews gods in John 10:35. He called them god's because they had the word of God, not because they were God almighty. Moses was called a god to Moses (Ex 7:1). Even the devil is called god (2 Cor 4:4).

In general, we need to understand the scriptures as the Hebrews of 3,000 years ago would have understood them. It doesn't matter what we think the word "god" means. It matters what they thought it meant. Times change and the meaning of words often change right along with it. This is such a case.

There are several concordances that explain what "god" means in the scriptures. It's a simple matter of doing a bit of research on the subject.

 

[74x12]

You are correct that it is not hard for those with God's spirit to understand him. Rather it is the ones without the spirit that don't.
Matthew 16:13-17
13 When he had come into the region of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

The spirit of the father revealed that Jesus is the son of God.
That's not wrong, is it?

Of course it's not wrong. However, this also is not wrong:

John 14:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

How about translating John 1:1 like this? In the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. It says later that "the Word" was made flesh and dwelt among us. Isn't that Jesus?

 

[rrobs]

Talking about ridiculous you never answered the question: Do you believe that Noah's Flood is a real historical event?

That's what the scriptures say, so yes. Please just accept my answer without telling me how naive or anything like that I am. That gets boring real quickly.

 

[rrobs]

How about translating John 1:1 like this? In the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. It says later that "the Word" was made flesh and dwelt among us. Isn't that Jesus?

It wasn't Jesus in the beginning. It was the word that was in the beginning. Doesn't say a thing about Jesus in this verse. To change the word "word" to "Jesus" is changing the word of God, never a good thing. Just read what's written without reading preconceived ideas into it.

Verse 14 says the word became Jesus. The word "became" is from the Greek word "genos" which basically means a beginning. In other words, Jesus had a beginning. God didn't have a beginning.