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Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

Rational Agnostic

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe CS Lewis must have been wrong about prophecies being wrong.
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All of these verses predict the second coming would occur in the first century, which of course it did not. You really can't get any more clear in the language used in the verses--it's just not possible that they could be referring to anything else besides the second coming/"Judgment Day". CS Lewis had the honesty to admit that they failed.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
Most Christians believe in the Second Coming of Jesus (along with a final "Judgment Day"), yet very few of them seem to be aware that this second coming and judgment was explicitly prophesied by the gospels to occur within the lifetimes of Jesus' disciples. Here are a few of the verses that contain this failed prophecy. After the verses, I will delve a bit deeper into the attempts made by Christian apologists to explain away these verses, and illustrate why these rationalizations clearly fail upon further examination.

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Comments: Christian apologists are fond of making the erroneous claim that verse 23 is a reference to the coming of Jesus after his alleged resurrection as in the later chapters of the gospels. But what they fail to acknowledge is that the references to brothers betraying each other, parents and children betraying each other, and being hated for being followers of Jesus are found in Mark 13, a chapter that is clearly a reference to the "last days," indicating that the prophecy in verse 23 is in fact a reference to the final judgment, or Second Coming of Jesus. In fact, the words used in Matthew 10:21-22 are essentially identical to those found in Mark chapter 13 (a chapter which refers to the final Judgment), removing all doubts that this is in fact a prophecy about Jesus' final return.

Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Comments: Some Christian apologists make the error of attempting to explain the obviously failed prophecy in verse 28 by claiming that it refers to the "Transfiguration" event described in the following chapter. But, clearly, as can be seen when reading verse 28 in the context of verse 27, this prophecy is a reference to the second coming of Jesus, also known as Judgment Day, as is evident from the reference to "angels" (no angels are mentioned in the transfiguration chapter), and the allusion to judgment where Jesus will "reward each person according to what they have done." So, it's clear that these verses were also a prophecy that the final judgment would occur within Jesus' disciples lifetimes.

Luke 21:29-32: "He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
Comments: Some Christian apologists attempt to argue that "this generation" is a reference to some future generation that is alive at the time of Jesus' return. But, again, when examining the context of the verse, we again learn that this is incorrect. Jesus is speaking to his disciples privately during this conversation, and refers to them using the second person pronoun "you" stating "When you see these things....." Clearly, Jesus is telling his disciples that they will be witnesses to the end times, and that their generation will not pass away until all of the signs have occurred, again mirroring the similar language found in the aforementioned erroneous prophecies.

So, if you are being intellectually honest, you can now clearly see that these are failed prophecies. Even C.S. Lewis, a renowned Christian apologist, referred to these verses as being the most embarrassing verses in the bible, and admitted that they are clearly erroneous prophecies. Most of the time, when discussing these verses with Christians, and explaining the context of them, and why they clearly fail, the typical initial reaction is that of anger toward me, indicating that some degree of cognitive dissonance has set in. I understand it's upsetting to realize that a book you previously thought was infallible clearly contains errors, but it's important to acknowledge this if you honestly care about whether your beliefs are true or not.
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Nope not at, your just taking them out of context.
Matthew 10:21-23.

Verse 21--"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child, and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death"

First who's the brother ? Well seeing Jesus is speaking to those of Israel, for all Israel's are brothers and sisters.
If you had backup to Verse 5 -6, you would haved found Jesus saying to the
12 disciples " Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter you not.
Verse 6--"But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

Therefore those of Israel are brothers and sisters.

Verse 22--"And you shall be hated of all men, for my name sake, but he that endures to the end shall be saved"

This is no different than to day, right.

Verse 23--"But when they persecute you in this city, flee you into another, for verily I say unto you, You shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come"

So what did Jesus mean by that statement?
( You shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come)

This Verse 23, like many others, fools many people, All because they are not keeping up with the program.

What has Jesus been telling his
12 disciples all along.
"I'm going up to Jerusalem, I'm going to die, I'm going to be risen in 3 days. And when I am risen, you will see me again.

So when the 12 disciples found Jesus had risen, This of Matthew 10:23 came to be fulfilled.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Subduction Zone said:
Then provide the prophecy the events and dates and links that support your claims. Please make sure that all factual links are proper ones and not false Christian links. The prophecy needs to be clear, otherwise you are merely reinterpreting it to meet what we already know to have happened. When one can reinterpret prophecy they become worthless since they can be "fulfilled" time after time. And make sure that your prophecy is an actual prophecy first and not just a verse taken out of context. That is called quote mining and is also a failure.
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Comet Kohoutek,
Epoch 24 December 1973 - Wikipedia

December 24, 1973 — Annular Solar Eclipse -
Annular Solar Eclipse on December 24, 1973
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Subduction Zone said:
You can believe anything you want. I know that no Christian has been able to demonstrate a significant fulfilled prophecy and I can find multiple failed ones. The prophecy that bothers C.S. Lewis has been shown to have failed. It had a time limit to it and that time limit passed over 1900 years ago. That prophecy still has not come true. Putting a time limit on a prophecy adds validation as a prophecy but it also adds the risk of making the prophecy have a clear failure.
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I believe if you are still talking about the prophecy of the return of Jesus as having a time limit then it did not run out 1900 years ago and is still in process.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Subduction Zone said:
Yes, comets can be seen every few years. Kohoutek was not all that bright. If one was not an astronomer one would not have noticed it. Did you have a point?
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Mat 24:29, 30 ...shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...

A darkened sun and moon happens during a solar eclipse and the comet serves as a sign of Jesus because it occurred on His birthday.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Muffled said:
Mat 24:29, 30 ...shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...

A darkened sun and moon happens during a solar eclipse and the comet serves as a sign of Jesus because it occurred on His birthday.
Click to expand...
And yet there have been countless examples of both and no return of Jesus. Thanks for pointing to another failed prophecy
 
T

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
Most Christians believe in the Second Coming of Jesus (along with a final "Judgment Day"), yet very few of them seem to be aware that this second coming and judgment was explicitly prophesied by the gospels to occur within the lifetimes of Jesus' disciples. Here are a few of the verses that contain this failed prophecy. After the verses, I will delve a bit deeper into the attempts made by Christian apologists to explain away these verses, and illustrate why these rationalizations clearly fail upon further examination.

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Comments: Christian apologists are fond of making the erroneous claim that verse 23 is a reference to the coming of Jesus after his alleged resurrection as in the later chapters of the gospels. But what they fail to acknowledge is that the references to brothers betraying each other, parents and children betraying each other, and being hated for being followers of Jesus are found in Mark 13, a chapter that is clearly a reference to the "last days," indicating that the prophecy in verse 23 is in fact a reference to the final judgment, or Second Coming of Jesus. In fact, the words used in Matthew 10:21-22 are essentially identical to those found in Mark chapter 13 (a chapter which refers to the final Judgment), removing all doubts that this is in fact a prophecy about Jesus' final return.

Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Comments: Some Christian apologists make the error of attempting to explain the obviously failed prophecy in verse 28 by claiming that it refers to the "Transfiguration" event described in the following chapter. But, clearly, as can be seen when reading verse 28 in the context of verse 27, this prophecy is a reference to the second coming of Jesus, also known as Judgment Day, as is evident from the reference to "angels" (no angels are mentioned in the transfiguration chapter), and the allusion to judgment where Jesus will "reward each person according to what they have done." So, it's clear that these verses were also a prophecy that the final judgment would occur within Jesus' disciples lifetimes.

Luke 21:29-32: "He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
Comments: Some Christian apologists attempt to argue that "this generation" is a reference to some future generation that is alive at the time of Jesus' return. But, again, when examining the context of the verse, we again learn that this is incorrect. Jesus is speaking to his disciples privately during this conversation, and refers to them using the second person pronoun "you" stating "When you see these things....." Clearly, Jesus is telling his disciples that they will be witnesses to the end times, and that their generation will not pass away until all of the signs have occurred, again mirroring the similar language found in the aforementioned erroneous prophecies.

So, if you are being intellectually honest, you can now clearly see that these are failed prophecies. Even C.S. Lewis, a renowned Christian apologist, referred to these verses as being the most embarrassing verses in the bible, and admitted that they are clearly erroneous prophecies. Most of the time, when discussing these verses with Christians, and explaining the context of them, and why they clearly fail, the typical initial reaction is that of anger toward me, indicating that some degree of cognitive dissonance has set in. I understand it's upsetting to realize that a book you previously thought was infallible clearly contains errors, but it's important to acknowledge this if you honestly care about whether your beliefs are true or not.
Click to expand...

Hubert,

Matthew 24: , Mark 13: , and Luke 21: are not just about the 2nd coming and the end of the world. The disciples had been speaking about how beautiful the temple and buildings were, and the Messiah let them know that they would be destroyed. They asked him questions about when these things would be, and about his coming, and the end of the world. So it wasn't just one question he was answering.

He let them know they would be brought before kings, persecuted, put in prison, hated of all men, betrayed, and some caused to be put to death. He let them know that when they saw Jerusalem encompassed with armies that then, the desolation was near. When they saw that, they were to flee and not go back into the city. (This was fulfilled around 70 AD, when the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem.) Then he also told them how after that tribulation, there would be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars, and on earth distress of nations, and then he would be coming. But he had made it clear that no one knew about the day or hour when he would return, and so to always be ready.

But when he spoke about some standing there who would not die before they saw the kingdom come, he was talking about the church, which is his kingdom. The message that John the Baptist, and the Messiah had been preaching was to repent, for the kingdom of God was near. He gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, or in other words the way to get in. Romans 14:17 said the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit didn't come until the day of Pentecost (about 50 days after he was crucified) which was told about in Acts 2: . That was the first preaching after the death and resurrection of the Messiah. Peter had the keys, and he used them, letting them know how to get into the kingdom (the church).

So there were many who had been standing there who did not taste of death, until they saw the kingdom come. His 2nd coming and the end of the world and the judgement is still to come.
 
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Nova2216

Nova2216

Active Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
Most Christians believe in the Second Coming of Jesus (along with a final "Judgment Day"), yet very few of them seem to be aware that this second coming and judgment was explicitly prophesied by the gospels to occur within the lifetimes of Jesus' disciples. Here are a few of the verses that contain this failed prophecy. After the verses, I will delve a bit deeper into the attempts made by Christian apologists to explain away these verses, and illustrate why these rationalizations clearly fail upon further examination.

Matthew 10:21-23: "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Comments: Christian apologists are fond of making the erroneous claim that verse 23 is a reference to the coming of Jesus after his alleged resurrection as in the later chapters of the gospels. But what they fail to acknowledge is that the references to brothers betraying each other, parents and children betraying each other, and being hated for being followers of Jesus are found in Mark 13, a chapter that is clearly a reference to the "last days," indicating that the prophecy in verse 23 is in fact a reference to the final judgment, or Second Coming of Jesus. In fact, the words used in Matthew 10:21-22 are essentially identical to those found in Mark chapter 13 (a chapter which refers to the final Judgment), removing all doubts that this is in fact a prophecy about Jesus' final return.

Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Comments: Some Christian apologists make the error of attempting to explain the obviously failed prophecy in verse 28 by claiming that it refers to the "Transfiguration" event described in the following chapter. But, clearly, as can be seen when reading verse 28 in the context of verse 27, this prophecy is a reference to the second coming of Jesus, also known as Judgment Day, as is evident from the reference to "angels" (no angels are mentioned in the transfiguration chapter), and the allusion to judgment where Jesus will "reward each person according to what they have done." So, it's clear that these verses were also a prophecy that the final judgment would occur within Jesus' disciples lifetimes.

Luke 21:29-32: "He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
Comments: Some Christian apologists attempt to argue that "this generation" is a reference to some future generation that is alive at the time of Jesus' return. But, again, when examining the context of the verse, we again learn that this is incorrect. Jesus is speaking to his disciples privately during this conversation, and refers to them using the second person pronoun "you" stating "When you see these things....." Clearly, Jesus is telling his disciples that they will be witnesses to the end times, and that their generation will not pass away until all of the signs have occurred, again mirroring the similar language found in the aforementioned erroneous prophecies.

So, if you are being intellectually honest, you can now clearly see that these are failed prophecies. Even C.S. Lewis, a renowned Christian apologist, referred to these verses as being the most embarrassing verses in the bible, and admitted that they are clearly erroneous prophecies. Most of the time, when discussing these verses with Christians, and explaining the context of them, and why they clearly fail, the typical initial reaction is that of anger toward me, indicating that some degree of cognitive dissonance has set in. I understand it's upsetting to realize that a book you previously thought was infallible clearly contains errors, but it's important to acknowledge this if you honestly care about whether your beliefs are true or not.
Click to expand...

Clearly you have been speaking to the wrong people.
 
Nova2216

Nova2216

Active Member
Subduction Zone said:
When Christians cannot be honest about as trivial and obvious of a failed prophecy as the Tyre prophecy, how do you expect them to be honest about such major failed prophecies?
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The account of the city of Tyre is an amazing one. They moved the city to an island. It is now under water. So if you look for Tyre in its old locations you will not find it.

It was moved!!!

and scraped bare!!!

Just as the prophecy said.

If I remember correctly!!!
 
Nova2216

Nova2216

Active Member
There are literal comings of Jesus and figurative comings of Christ. This will help explain much of the prophecies.
 
M

Mark La Buda

Member
One could debate that “until the son of man arrives,” could men that Jesus would later come to the places where they had preached. (Luke 10:1) However, I do not believe that this was implied.

It is evident that when Jesus gave his apostles preaching instructions, he was doing so for the years that would follow his death, resurrection and ascension to heaven, never to come back again to the earth in the flesh. Jesus spoke to the apostles about their being mistreated in the synagogues and being haled before governors and kings “for a witness to them and the nations.” (Matt. 10:17, 18) There is no record that such things occurred during the short preaching campaign in which the apostles engaged in Israel exclusively, after which they returned to Jesus and made their reports. At the time that Jesus instructed them, he plainly told them “not to go off into the road to the nations,” but only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel.”-Matthew 10:5, 6.

It seems that he must have been looking ahead to their preaching to all the nations after his ascension to heaven. In other words, Jesus was prophetically telling his disciples that they would not complete the circuit of the entire inhabited earth with the preaching about God’s Kingdom before he would arrive again.

The transfiguration showed that Jesus had God’s approval, and it was a foreview of his future glory and Kingdom power. The disciples saw, in effect, the “Son of man coming in his kingdom,” just as Jesus had promised a week earlier. (Matthew 16:28) After Jesus’ death, Peter wrote about having “…become eyewitnesses of his magnificence… while we were with him in the holy mountain.”-2 Peter 1:16-18. Compare: Matthew 17:1-8.

I am working on a reply to Luke 21: 29-32. I will post this later.
 
101G

101G

Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP,
not Failed but misunderstood. example,
Hubert Farnsworth said:
Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Click to expand...
these two verses speak of two different events. One has happened already and the Other one is yet to come.

one must A. KNOW, and B. UNDERSTAND the Lord Jesus two-fold return.

one return in "Spirit", which happen on the day of Pentecost, "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom". this is the return that Judas, not Iscariot, asked about. John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also." John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
answer, on the day of Pentecost he, the Lord JESUS, manifested himself in the Spiritual Gifts, which fulfills, "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom".

now, his second Coming in Flesh, ALL THE WORLD WILL SEE HIM THEN. Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

this "APPERANCE" all will see, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

so the Lord Jesus first return, (which was in Spirit), happen on Pentecost, in MANIFESTATION of the Spiritual Gifts. his SECOND return is in "APPERANCE", and EVERY EYE WEILL SEE HIM.

so there is a two-fold return of the Lord Jesus.

people KNOW YOUR BIBLE.

101G.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
101G said:
Addressing the OP,
not Failed but misunderstood. example,

these two verses speak of two different events. One has happened already and the Other one is yet to come.

one must A. KNOW, and B. UNDERSTAND the Lord Jesus two-fold return.

one return in "Spirit", which happen on the day of Pentecost, "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom". this is the return that Judas, not Iscariot, asked about. John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also." John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
answer, on the day of Pentecost he, the Lord JESUS, manifested himself in the Spiritual Gifts, which fulfills, "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom".

now, his second Coming in Flesh, ALL THE WORLD WILL SEE HIM THEN. Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

this "APPERANCE" all will see, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

so the Lord Jesus first return, (which was in Spirit), happen on Pentecost, in MANIFESTATION of the Spiritual Gifts. his SECOND return is in "APPERANCE", and EVERY EYE WEILL SEE HIM.

so there is a two-fold return of the Lord Jesus.

people KNOW YOUR BIBLE.

101G.
Click to expand...
No, there is no good reason to attempt to break that apart into two different prophecies. On needs to read the Bible in context. Otherwise you are just quote mining and if one can do that then one can go so far as to get the Bible to say "There is no God" at least 12 times. That it is a failed prophecy when read in context is not a valid reason to reinterpret it.
 
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