Why is hell eternal?

[Epic Beard Man]

Hell is eternal because there is no concept of time in the metaphysical plane of existence as one cannot measure time since it does not existence therefore things in that plane exist ad infinitum-at least that is what I understand. Near Death Experience or NDE tend to explain this idea through the experience of death by various patients report the lapse in time when they've experienced "heaven" and "hell." For them, these experiences seem like forever (considering that the consciousness is not aware of time after death) but in reality these experiences may be seconds to minutes.

 

[PruePhillip]

Oh, you do, huh? You have a Greek background? So what.



You should research your background some more than, because, he did, among other languages. In Jesus time Palestine was a multilingual region, he would have spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek. Though predominately Aramaic, but that isn't relevant because the texts that were written were written in Greek Koine, because that was the primary language of the time, thus a wider audience.



No it isn't. Amos 9:2 / Psalms 139:8

Yeah, like to learn Koine...
But there's no evidence Jesus spoke Greek or any sort. His message was the
"lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Certainly his disciples immersed themselves in Greek and Latin.

It's like this.
"Greek translations" are often nothing of the sort.
Words have multiple meanings.
A classic example of Greek-Translation-Trickery is with the Virgin Mary. Virgin
DOES mean young girl, AFAIK. It also means "virgin." And the NT account of
Mary declares she was virgin when she gave birth to Jesus.

It's the same with "Hell."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then I suggest you brush up on your reading skills.

Mark 9:43
“If your hand or your foot gets in God’s way, chop it off and throw it away. You’re better off maimed or lame and alive than the proud owner of two hands and two feet, godless in a furnace of eternal fire. And if your eye distracts you from God, pull it out and throw it away. You’re better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.​

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Hell is translated from the Greek word "Hades". I don't see that word there in Greek.

But I do see the Greek "Geenna".

That's why Young's Literal Translation states:
"And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --"

I can't help it if translators can't translate properly, or do so to further their false dogma.

Too bad the Bible plays so fast and loose with its wording.

No, translators do that....not the Bible's fault!

 

[Deeje]

Jesus taught about hell.

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" when speaking to the Pharisees. It was not "hades". So there is more than one "hell" if you don't believe in Christendom's version of the Bible. To them "hades, gehenna and the lake of fire" are all one "hell"...supposedly one of eternal torment. But is that the case?

I never cease to roll my eyes when people tell me "Greek translations" of biblical texts.
I have a Greek background.
But... lots of this stuff was never in Greek to start with. Jesus never spoke it as far as I know.

Jesus gave the Revelation to the apostle John by means of an angel....so Jesus did mention hades and gehenna and the lake of fire.

"And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Haʹdes gave up those dead in them.” (Revelation 20:13)

So here hades gives up its dead. And then we find in verses 14-15......"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Can you explain this from your Greek background? I have Greek speaking friends who know exactly what these words mean. They do not roll their eyes at all.

Hell is eternal separation from God. For many I suppose it's better than the hell of the life
they live today, but Jesus said such people will see what they don't see now - what they
are missing.
God has given us a good look at hell with what happened to the Jews after Jesus. Just
been reading Josephus' accounts of the destruction of Israel.

Since the Greek Septuagint translates "sheol" as "hades" we get a pretty good idea about what level of consciousness those in 'hades' experience....

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; 10...." For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going."

There are no conscious "souls" in sheol (hades). So it is separation from God in a sense....but it is a separation from life itself in an unconscious "sleep" as Jesus said of his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) This is a sleep from which only God's spirit can awaken a person.

What about "gehenna"? and the lake of fire? Do living things go there to be tortured or separated from God?

Again, like hades, (the first death lands us in hades because it is simply the grave to which we all go sooner or later) gehenna and the lake of fire symbolize a place from which no one and nothing returns. The "second death" is one from which no return or resurrection takes place. Those in hades come out...those in gehenna or the lake of fire are never seen again. Its not really more complicated than that.

There is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible, so when you start to teach people that they don't really die, (which is the lie the devil told Eve) you have to invent places for them to go. Most "Christians" imagine that they are going to heaven, despite the fact that God already has the place full of spirit beings who are already designed and created to live there.

Where did God put human beings? Can you show me where this earth was not designed to be their permanent home. The first humans were given the opportunity to live forever right here on earth, but they forfeited that right when they disobeyed God's command. Did God just abandon his whole purpose and assign the good humans to eternal life in heaven and the bad ones to eternal torture in hell? (Isaiah 55:11)

Where did God tell Adam that he was going...heaven or hell? (Genesis 3:19)

 

[Skwim]

Of course it does. Do that Strongs thing you do so well.

If you want to address something I said it would help if you quote the right post. And my post referencing Strong's was to only to help Jollybear and his uncertainty in post 25. Not to make a point.

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[Skwim]

Hell is translated from the Greek word "Hades".

Nope. It has nothing to do with Greek. It "may be in part from Old Norse mythological Hel (from Proto-Germanic *halija "one who covers up or hides something")," from PIE root *kel-(1) "to cover, conceal, save." And used in the KJV for Old Testament Hebrew Sheol and New Testament Greek Hades, Gehenna."
source:etymonline.com

No, translators do that....not the Bible's fault!

Place the blame wherever you wish, the result is the same, the Bible is deceiving the reader.

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[Deeje]

Place the blame wherever you wish, the result is the same, the Bible is deceiving the reader.

LOL...only some of them....

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12..."the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."

If people want to believe their own delusions...God will not prevent them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Nope. It has nothing to do with Greek.

@Skwim, this borders on the asinine.

We're not discussing the origin of English words; rather, the definitions of the Greek words employed.

The New Testament was written in Greek, so the reader needs to know the meaning of these Greek words the ancient writers used, and their intent in applying them. It has everything to do with it.

That's like saying to understand the US Constitution, knowing English "has nothing to do with" it.

 

[Deeje]

Hell is eternal because there is no concept of time in the metaphysical plane of existence as one cannot measure time since it does not existence therefore things in that plane exist ad infinitum-at least that is what I understand.

Do you never wonder why people in almost every religion believe in the existence of an immortal soul? And do you know that the ancient Jews, unlike their neighbor nations who worshipped false gods, never believed in any kind of life after death? The "soul" to a Jew was the whole living breathing creature. There are no disembodied souls in the Bible. All you have to do is read Genesis....where did God tell Adam that he would go to heaven or hell? God mentioned neither....he said to Adam..." In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."

Near Death Experience or NDE tend to explain this idea through the experience of death by various patients report the lapse in time when they've experienced "heaven" and "hell." For them, these experiences seem like forever (considering that the consciousness is not aware of time after death) but in reality these experiences may be seconds to minutes.

What do you believe NDE's are?
Since no one is actually "dead" (i.e. brain dead,) these are "near death" experiences, not "after death" happenings....do we appreciate the difference? The chemistry of the brain is altered when it is deprived of oxygen and science explains it as " the culturally appropriate hallucinations of a hypoxic brain." "Culturally appropriate" should give us a clue. NDE's are almost always tied to a person's religious beliefs or to beliefs that they were raised with from infancy.

When a person goes into cardiac arrest, they can be revived as long as CPR is administered relatively quickly...this means the brain does not go entirely without oxygen for very long or otherwise it would be catastrophically damaged. During CPR the cardiac output is about 20-25% normal – enough to delay damage to tissues. So the brain is getting some oxygen. Not enough to be conscious, but enough to have some function – perhaps generate a dream-like hallucination or out-of-body experience.

https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/studying-near-death-experiences/

Since the Bible does not support a "life after death" scenario, but rather a physical resurrection back to life as a human, NDE's actually promote the very first lie told by the devil....." the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die." But God said that they would 'die and return to the ground from which they were taken'.

Can the devil provide visions to fool a dying brain? Maybe he can...or maybe its just the hallucinations caused by oxygen deprivation? I do not see NDE's as proof that humans can have consciousness after death. The very fact that a person can be in a coma for months or even years and have no recollection of any time or activity that took place when they have awoken, is proof to me that consciousness is tied inextricably to the brain...the first organ to die when when breathing stops.

There are way more people who have no NDE's at all.

 

[Skwim]

@Skwim, this borders on the asinine.

We're not discussing the origin of English words; rather, the definitions of the Greek words employed.

You're absolutely right. My mistake.

.

 

[PruePhillip]

It makes no difference what SOME or even MANY Jews believe. Strange as
it seems - the bible doesn't belong to them, in a national sense.
For instance:
The Old Testament declares that the Jews would reject the Messiah and go
into exile - that doesn't appeal to Jews!!!!

And NDE's. Been in one myself, not as far as some have been. Yes, I could
"explain it away" if I wanted to. But some stories can't be explained away. A
close friend experienced an even stranger one, the so-called "Sympathetic
Near Death Experience." She said at the point of death of a close friend she
felt that person enter her, then say goodbye. This woman's account used
many of the terms used by people going through NDE themselves. I have no
reason to doubt this emotional experience.
Science, true science, always strives to keep an open mind about things, and
not get into dogmas.

 

[Deeje]

It makes no difference what SOME or even MANY Jews believe. Strange as
it seems - the bible doesn't belong to them, in a national sense.
For instance:
The Old Testament declares that the Jews would reject the Messiah and go
into exile - that doesn't appeal to Jews!!!!

The majority of the Hebrew scriptures pertain to the nation of Israel and their forerunners. The accounts are an historical record of God's dealings with the only nation on earth who were in a covenant relationship with him by birth, obligated to uphold his laws and commandments and to practice their worship in a prescribed manner. It shows us what they did to please their God and the blessings that resulted, but more so it shows us how God felt when they failed and turned to false worship. It is all relevant in the big picture IMO.

And NDE's. Been in one myself, not as far as some have been. Yes, I could
"explain it away" if I wanted to. But some stories can't be explained away.

All NDE's can be explained with some reference to the Bible. Demons feature strongly in many Bible accounts and it is their Leader who first put forward the idea of death not being the end of life. Demons can impersonate the dead by means of spirit mediums....that is why Israelites were forbidden to communicate with spirits and why spirit mediums and all spiritistic practices were purged from the Land that God gave them. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Humans are programmed to live forever and the Genesis account proves that there was no 'heaven or hell' scenario even mentioned in the creation account and subsequent chapters. All God offered his people was 'life or death'...there was nothing in between.

A
close friend experienced an even stranger one, the so-called "Sympathetic
Near Death Experience." She said at the point of death of a close friend she
felt that person enter her, then say goodbye. This woman's account used
many of the terms used by people going through NDE themselves. I have no
reason to doubt this emotional experience.

Yes, it is important to realize that NDE's are an emotional experience. When a spirit enters into a human body it is called "demonic possession".....it is not a good experience from the Bible's perspective. The common experiences and terms used by those who experience NDE's could also be demonically inspired. I assure you that they are nothing to do with the spirits of the dead. There are no spirits of the dead. These people are still alive and 'something' or 'someone' is having a lend of them. These spirits are rebellious angels, satan's minions...out to deceive.

Science, true science, always strives to keep an open mind about things, and
not get into dogmas.

When science and the Bible collide, I'll take the Bible any day, but when science and the Bible agree, it is a good thing. On this, they agree.

 

[danieldemol]

Why do you believe hell is eternal and not temporary?

As a liberal, truth is more important to me than what a text says.

Thus I don’t believe in an eternal hell, not because I think the bible does or doesn’t teach this, but simply because I don’t believe that finite man is capable of the infinite crime which would surely be necessary to justify eternal punishment.

Kind regards

 

[PruePhillip]

As a liberal, truth is more important to me than what a text says.

Thus I don’t believe in an eternal hell, not because I think the bible does or doesn’t teach this, but simply because I don’t believe that finite man is capable of the infinite crime which would surely be necessary to justify eternal punishment.

Kind regards

Often say this. If you don't believe God is the God of the bible, and you don't
believe that God will do what God says He will do - then take a look at what
He did to the Jewish people who disobeyed, or rejected the Messiah.
Look at Jewish history, from AD 70 onwards. And read the prophecies in
the OT concerning this.

 

[danieldemol]

Often say this. If you don't believe God is the God of the bible, and you don't
believe that God will do what God says He will do - then take a look at what
He did to the Jewish people who disobeyed, or rejected the Messiah.
Look at Jewish history, from AD 70 onwards. And read the prophecies in
the OT concerning this.

I don’t reject Jesus as the Messiah, but I don’t believe He was infallible either, just highly inspired. If He was he would have explained why a just God would provide eternal punishment for limited crimes.

If you were punishing a child wouldn’t you do it in the hope of reforming the child? Wouldn’t you explain to the child why they were being punished?

 

[wellwisher]

Why do you believe hell is eternal and not temporary?

Hell does not appear in the bible. However, hell is implied in Revelations, when Satan is thrown from heaven. Satan was in heaven during the Old and New Testament up to the symbolism in Revelations. Satan was God's left hand man before he was thrown from heaven. Satan was the lord of the earth. In the temptation of Jesus in the Desert, Satan had the authority to offer Jesus all the wealth of the world, since he was the CEO of the Earth. Jesus declines but never questioned his authority to do so.

The distinction between heaven and hell does not differentiate, until after Satan is removed from Heaven. Satan is still lord of the earth but without any connection to heaven; Devil. Further bible prophesies indicates that Satan has a short time and wages war against the Saints. He is then sealed and finally released only to be sealed forever. Since Satan as the Devil leads hell, once he is seal forever and new heaven and earth form, hell be gone. The answer is temporary.

 

[PruePhillip]

I don’t reject Jesus as the Messiah, but I don’t believe He was infallible either, just highly inspired. If He was he would have explained why a just God would provide eternal punishment for limited crimes.

If you were punishing a child wouldn’t you do it in the hope of reforming the child? Wouldn’t you explain to the child why they were being punished?

That correct. If a person learns to be a child before God, and takes the correction, then God can
"reform" them. But God cannot correct those that won't obey.
Paul spoke of Israel, the people for whom "there was no remedy"
"Time and again the LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to His people through His messengers,
because He had compassion on them and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the
messengers of God, despising His words and scoffing at His prophets, until the wrath
of the LORD against His people was stirred up beyond remedy. So He brought up against
them the king of the Chaldeans, who put their choice young men to the sword in the sanctuary,
sparing neither young men nor young women, neither elderly nor infirm. God gave them all into
the hand of Nebuchadnezzar.…"

 

[Jollybear]

According to Strong's Concordance the Hebrew word is `owlam (וֹלָם ) which means

1. long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

A. ancient time, long time (of past)
B. (of future)

i. for ever, always
ii. continuous existence, perpetual
iii. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
​

Nothing relating to the length of one's life.

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Does context play a role in this verse?

Exodus 21:2-6

"
“If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5“But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6then his master must take him before the judges.a He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life (or for ever).

The context appears to emply for the remainder of his life.

And dont forget about jonah in the fish. Jonah said he was bared in forever, yet God took him out.

 

[PruePhillip]

Does context play a role in this verse?

Exodus 21:2-6

"
“If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5“But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6then his master must take him before the judges.a He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life (or for ever).

The context appears to emply for the remainder of his life.

And dont forget about jonah in the fish. Jonah said he was bared in forever, yet God took him out.

Good luck on that one.
Maybe you are thinking of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory?
As I see it, forever in context of eternity means just that.
God is not mocked. God will do what He said He will do.

 

[Jollybear]

Good luck on that one.
Maybe you are thinking of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory?
As I see it, forever in context of eternity means just that.
God is not mocked. God will do what He said He will do.

So i take it you believe hell to be literally forever in time?

If you do, how do you deal with the figurative use of the word forever used in the bible? Like jonah saying he was bared in forever, yet God took him out?

And why would a loving, just God who says he takes no pleasure in even the very death of the wicked permit or cause eternal torture? Would that not rather make him sadistic?