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Two approaches towards reforming Islam: the Bahai Faith and Ahmadiyya Islam.

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
According to this Charity Data the entire gamut of charity work is to do with promotion of the Baha'i faith. Maybe it's an anomaly.

I have nothing against donating to religious institutions, when they uplift people as much as they do, but there's a difference, in my mind, between direct charity for anyone (like the Red Cross, Food banks, etc.) versus religious donations. I'm sure sometimes those lines do get blurred. The Salvation Army would be one such example. Religious groups also tend to be administrative top heavy in this regard.
That’s quite a find! It certainly doesn’t support your view that the Baha’i Faith is dying with such a rapidly expanding budget. I’m off to work and will talk again soon. Where do you think all that money being spent on ‘Charity’ is going?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
That’s quite a find! It certainly doesn’t support your view that the Baha’i Faith is dying with such a rapidly expanding budget. I’m off to work and will talk again soon. Where do you think all that money being spent on ‘Charity’ is going?

Staffing, building maintenance, donations to pioneers, utilities, ... you know, the basics that all 'charities' need to cover. It costs a lot of money to run a 'charity'.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I have my own ideas as to why many Religious movements arise around the same time. To me the Key was the Revelation given by the Bab. This 'Gate' opens a new Revelation and the world is flooded with renewed spiritual energy.

You are of course entitled to those ideas of your own, but please allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.

It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.

After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible. Many of those creeds were not well equipped to deal with the awareness of the diversity of beliefs, and the direct result was an unprecedented receptiveness towards new ideas that offered ways for addressing the challenge.

The way I see it, Persia was no exception. It stands to reason that word of far away lands and their exotic beliefs would reach that land as well.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are of course entitled to those ideas of your own, but please allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.

It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.

After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible. Many of those creeds were not well equipped to deal with the awareness of the diversity of beliefs, and the direct result was an unprecedented receptiveness towards new ideas that offered ways for addressing the challenge.

The way I see it, Persia was no exception. It stands to reason that word of far away lands and their exotic beliefs would reach that land as well.

The question we can all ask is why was this so?

If a person was to consider prophecy that is written in all Holy Writings from all corners of this planet, one would come upon repeatedly a promise of a day when peace and unity is to unfold.

Are we living in that day and if so does that explain the reform all Faiths now face?

Regards Tony
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The question we can all ask is why was this so?

If a person was to consider prophecy that is written in all Holy Writings from all corners of this planet, one would come upon repeatedly a promise of a day when peace and unity is to unfold.

Are we living in that day and if so does that explain the reform all Faiths now face?

Regards Tony
It seems that such a question comes more naturally to some people than to others.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It is hard to talk to you and appeal to all that is good when they are the replies you offer in return.

I am happy to talk about that Charity and how it started and what the goals are. But not on this OP.

Regards Tony
You can start another thread any time you want to, Tony. That's how this forum works.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems that such a question comes more naturally to some people than to others.

I see it ties into your question about the reform of Islam and the timing of that reform with the explosion of knowledge that mankind has also experienced.

Thus you raised an important topic.

Regards Tony
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
You are of course entitled to those ideas of your own, but please allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.

It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.

After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible.
Many of those creeds were not well equipped to deal with the awareness of the diversity of beliefs, and the direct result was an unprecedented receptiveness towards new ideas that offered ways for addressing the challenge.

The way I see it, Persia was no exception. It stands to reason that word of far away lands and their exotic beliefs would reach that land as well.
"allow me to point out that the later half of the 19th century was quite efervescent when it comes to creeds, faiths and religions.
It was the time of the rise of spiritualism, of orientalism, of H.P. Blavastsky and Allan Kardec and the Golden Dawn.
After many a century of almost automatic and often shallow, rote adherence towards the traditional religions of the land and of one's immediate ancestors, the advancement of transport and communication made a sudden and often unconfortable awareness of the diversity of creeds possible."

Indeed such a time was clearly prophesied in Quran in the many ending chapters* of Quran.
This was the time of
advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and the End-times-Reformer of all
religions and of course for the non-believers also.

Regards
_____________
* Quran Chapter:Verse
[81:1]

In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[81:2]
When the sun is wrapped up,
[81:3]
And when the stars are obscured,
[81:4]

And when the mountains are made to move,
[81:5]
And when the she-camels, ten-month pregnant, are abandoned,
[81:6]
And when the beasts are gathered together,
[81:7]
And when the seas are made to flow forth one into the other,
[81:8]
And when people are brought together,

[81:9]
And when the girl-child buried alive is questioned about,
[81:10]
‘For what crime was she killed?’
[81:11]
And when books are spread abroad.
[81:12]
And when the heaven is laid bare,
[81:13]

The Holy Quran - Chapter: 81: Al-Takwir



 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I have no idea about the market value of land in Delhi 65 years ago. Do you?

I’m presuming the government back then was democratically elected and Hindus make up about 80% of the population. Why do you think the government back then was anti-Hindu and why was the sale of land to Baha’is anti-Hindu?
Yes, the government was democratically elected but dominated by Nehru. Nehru was a canny politician. The explanation will not be easily understood by non-Indians, but I will try. He knew that if Hindus unite, then the rule of his family will end since his daughter, Indira had married a Zoroastrian. The first indication of his policy was when his party, Congress (Indian National Congress), blamed the Hindu combine, RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangha) for the murder of Mahatma Gandhi and had it banned. He and his successors from the family did everything to divide Hindus. It was only after 50 years of the family rule that the Hindu Party, BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) was able to come to power. It delighted Congress if a few Hindus became Bahais, one more distraction for Hindus. I think the Bahai land purchase was felicitated by his government and was not a purely individual sale or purchase. I am trying to find the exact information.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the Bahai land purchase was felicitated by his government and was not a purely individual sale or purchase. I am trying to find the exact information.

Using a 1970 Rupee inflation calculator to 2018, the 140,000 Paid would be equivalent to 5.8 Million dollars. So if we took that back to 1953 the land was not given away.

It seems a very fair price was indeed paid.

Much like my grandparents land in Western Australia. When they brought it was dirt cheap in Claremont well away from the city.

These days land there for 500m2 is $1,000,000 AU

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Staffing, building maintenance, donations to pioneers, utilities, ... you know, the basics that all 'charities' need to cover. It costs a lot of money to run a 'charity'.
The main focus for Baha’i communities world wide over the last few years has been running neighbourhood children’s classes, youth programmes and adult classes. There has been a particular focus on the moral and spiritual empowerment of young people. In countries like New Zealand where rates of depression, addictions, crime and suicide are high amongst teenagers and those in their 20s these programmes can help some young people become better focused. The majority of participants are not Baha’is and they could be in neighbourhoods anywhere. There may even be one on your street.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Reformation is such an offensive concept. It literally means that religion is in Need of alteration. For anyone who believes religion is God given, reform is a blashemous suggestion.

What if your reform movement is based in the idea that the religion had gone astray somewhere? Case in point: Protestant Christianity. In the context and framework of Christianity- I do find many of the things Protestants suggested noteworthy and valid criticisms of the Church.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
You mean things like saying the Christians got it all wrong? The same as on these forums? In India one of the school's hidden agenda was exposed, but perhaps it just hasn't happened yet there.
I feel totally comfortable educating others about Christ with an emphasis on the virtues He promoted. If Christians want too add in the resurrection and He was the son of god that’s fine. They have as much right to their beliefs as I have mine.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
You can start another thread any time you want to, Tony. That's how this forum works.
The post that you replied to, inviting you to go to another place (post) in order to discuss the proceeds and spending of charity money reminds me of a Bahai meeting that I went to 45 years ago with my Bahai wife.
At question time a man of Mid-East appearance rose and asked a question. The Bahai speaker explained that the question was not appropriate to the meeting. The man insisted that surely it was a good question for such a meeting and useful for all present to hear any Bahai answer. The Bahai speaker, after several attempts at refusal, diversion (I'm coming to that soon), procrastination (maybe we could meet afterwards to discuss?) offered to leave the meeting to speak with the man alone.
I never even heard the question (daydreaming) but many visitors did, and many of them shook their heads in dismissal of the meeting, got up and left.

Nothing has changed, it seems........
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The post that you replied to, inviting you to go to another place (post) in order to discuss the proceeds and spending of charity money reminds me of a Bahai meeting that I went to 45 years ago with my Bahai wife.
At question time a man of Mid-East appearance rose and asked a question. The Bahai speaker explained that the question was not appropriate to the meeting. The man insisted that surely it was a good question for such a meeting and useful for all present to hear any Bahai answer. The Bahai speaker, after several attempts at refusal, diversion (I'm coming to that soon), procrastination (maybe we could meet afterwards to discuss?) offered to leave the meeting to speak with the man alone.
I never even heard the question (daydreaming) but many visitors did, and many of them shook their heads in dismissal of the meeting, got up and left.

Nothing has changed, it seems........

Investigate all you want, but we get to decide which questions can be asked. Thank God for the internet, and readily available information. It eliminates most of the deception.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I feel totally comfortable educating others about Christ with an emphasis on the virtues He promoted. If Christians want too add in the resurrection and He was the son of god that’s fine. They have as much right to their beliefs as I have mine.
That is easily among the most laudable achievements of the Bahai Faith, IMO. It taught a community of believers from a largely Muslim origin to be more accepting and at ease with the fact that people will have a variety of beliefs and that is not the end of the world.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Investigate all you want, but we get to decide which questions can be asked. Thank God for the internet, and readily available information. It eliminates most of the deception.

Now that is truly a miracle. Not even the most imaginative Sci-Fi writers would have tried to stretch our credibility as far as a fast worldwideweb system which could allow free investigation for nearly all people.
I wonder what a Bahai World would do with it?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Now that is truly a miracle. Not even the most imaginative Sci-Fi writers would have tried to stretch our credibility as far as a fast worldwideweb system which could allow free investigation for nearly all people.
I wonder what a Bahai World would do with it?

Lots of totalitarian states control it, just as the press was controlled and continues to be, by often unseen forces. Even now, sites like Wiki are watched over by various folks who are quick to make edits to suit agendas. I'm not very optimistic actually. You?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Lots of totalitarian states control it, just as the press was controlled and continues to be, by often unseen forces. Even now, sites like Wiki are watched over by various folks who are quick to make edits to suit agendas. I'm not very optimistic actually. You?

I'm optimistic, because access to the internet can be via satellite comms, thus circumventing individual national controls. And kids today just surf it, ride it, jiggle with it...... if they want to show the world something then it's going to get seen.

At least...... I hope I'm right.
 
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