The Quran and the Son of God

[Jim]

It looks to me like many people, maybe most people including most Christians and Muslims, think that the Quran denies that Jesus was the Son of G_d. I think that the Quran denounces the idea of Mary being the mother of G_d and/or the mother of G_d’s Son, but I don’t think it denies that Jesus is the Son of G_d in the way that the Bible says He is, meaning that He is king of Israel.

In the time when the Quran was revealed people might have been saying or insinuating sometimes, as they do sometimes today, that it is the way Jesus was born that makes Him the Son of G_d, and also that it makes Mary the mother of G_d. There might have been a need for G_d’s purposes at that time to denounce those ideas unequivocally, without confusing the issue by affirming that in a certain way Jesus really is the Son of G_d. That might be why the Quran says repeatedly that G_d “does not beget, nor is He begotten.” “G_d does not beget” means that Mary is not the mother of G_d’s Son, and “nor is He begotten” means that Mary is not G_d’s mother. Saying that in a certain way Jesus actually was the Son of God would have been needlessly confusing and distracting.

I think that the king of Israel was sometimes viewed figuratively as the son of G_d. The difference between Jesus as king of Israel and the other kings might be analogous in some ways to the difference between a begotten son and an adopted son. For example, the other kings were anointed by a priest, but Jesus was anointed by G_d Himself. However that may be, the way He was born does not make Mary the mother of G_d, or of His Son, and that might be the whole point of the Quran saying that G_d “does not beget, nor is He begotten.” Not to deny that Jesus was the Son of God, meaning the rightful king of Israel.

I’ll be doing some more research on all that. I would welcome any scripture references that anyone thinks I’m contradicting.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

you've made this claim before and I already shown the holy Qur'an that it denies the claim. If you're going to provide a historical analysis of the situation provide some historical evidence. Saying "I think" or "perhaps" does not suffice. For a Baha'i you are sure pushing this issue of "sonship" which is something not even remotely mandated in Islam.

The Qur'an says:

" FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, [180] and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. [181] Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God. - 4:171 (Asad)

"The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could it be that He should have a child without there ever having been a mate for Him - since it is He who has created everything, and He alone knows everything?" - 6:101


"AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" [45] How perverted are their minds!" [46] - 9:30


"And say: "All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, [133] and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid" [134] -and [thus] extol His limitless greatness." - 17:111

"It is not conceivable that God should have taken unto Himself a son: limitless is He in His glory! [26] When He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it "Be" -and it is! - 19:35

"He to whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs, and who begets no offspring, [2] and has no partner in His dominion: for it is He who creates every thing and determines its nature in accordance with [His own] design." 25:2

The only speculation in the Qur'an regarding sonship is the following:

"If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created." 39:4

 

[Jim]

you've made this claim before and I already shown the holy Qur'an that it denies the claim. ...

Thank you for those references. Have you seen anything in the Quran that denies that Jesus was anointed by G_d as king of Israel?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Thank you for those references. Have you seen anything in the Quran that denies that Jesus was anointed by G_d as king of Israel?

Jesus according to the Qur'an was a prophet, messenger, or referred to as "apostle of Allah." Jesus was also referred to as a Messiah. Nothing in direct reference to being of royalty.

 

[Dawnofhope]

you've made this claim before and I already shown the holy Qur'an that it denies the claim. If you're going to provide a historical analysis of the situation provide some historical evidence. Saying "I think" or "perhaps" does not suffice. For a Baha'i you are sure pushing this issue of "sonship" which is something not even remotely mandated in Islam.

The Qur'an says:

" FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, [180] and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. [181] Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God. - 4:171 (Asad)

"The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could it be that He should have a child without there ever having been a mate for Him - since it is He who has created everything, and He alone knows everything?" - 6:101


"AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" [45] How perverted are their minds!" [46] - 9:30


"And say: "All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, [133] and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid" [134] -and [thus] extol His limitless greatness." - 17:111

"It is not conceivable that God should have taken unto Himself a son: limitless is He in His glory! [26] When He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it "Be" -and it is! - 19:35

"He to whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs, and who begets no offspring, [2] and has no partner in His dominion: for it is He who creates every thing and determines its nature in accordance with [His own] design." 25:2

The only speculation in the Qur'an regarding sonship is the following:

"If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created." 39:4

There is a argument to be made the Muhammad rejects the notion that Christ was the ‘son of god’ in the same manner as you or I might have a son. This is different from the designation ‘Son of God’ that the gospels affirm. The Holy Qur’an affirms the Gospels as being a Revelation from God.

The origins of the ‘son of god’ is the Nicene Creed that came about through the fourth century. Several centuries later the belief is rejected by Muhammad.

The ‘Son of God’ and the ‘son of god’ are two very different concepts. The former is a Messianic designation affirmed by the gospels, the latter implied through man made doctrine. The Gospels are affirmed, not rejected by the Holy Quran.

Gospel in Islam - Wikipedia

 

[Jim]

I would welcome any scripture references that anyone thinks I’m contradicting.

This verse from the Bible seems to contradict what I’m saying:

Luke 1:35 (KJV)

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

ETA:

Also this:
Matthew 2:2 (KJV)

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It looks to me like many people, maybe most people including most Christians and Muslims, think that the Quran denies that Jesus was the Son of G_d. I think that the Quran denounces the idea of Mary being the mother of G_d and/or the mother of G_d’s Son, but I don’t think it denies that Jesus is the Son of G_d in the way that the Bible says He is, meaning that He is king of Israel.

In the time when the Quran was revealed people might have been saying or insinuating sometimes, as they do sometimes today, that it is the way Jesus was born that makes Him the Son of G_d, and also that it makes Mary the mother of G_d. There might have been a need for G_d’s purposes at that time to denounce those ideas unequivocally, without confusing the issue by affirming that in a certain way Jesus really is the Son of G_d. That might by why the Quran says repeatedly that G_d “does not beget, nor is He begotten.” “G_d does not beget” means that Mary is not the mother of G_d’s Son, and “nor is He begotten” means that Mary is not G_d’s mother. Saying that in a certain way Jesus actually was the Son of God would have been needlessly confusing and distracting.

I think that the king of Israel was sometimes viewed figuratively as the son of G_d. The difference between Jesus as king of Israel and the other kings might be analogous in some ways to the difference between a begotten son and an adopted son. For example, the other kings were anointed by a priest, but Jesus was anointed by G_d Himself. However that may be, the way He was born does not make Mary the mother of G_d, or of His Son, and that might be the whole point of the Quran saying that G_d “does not beget, nor is He begotten.” Not to deny that Jesus was the Son of God, meaning the rightful king of Israel.

I’ll be doing some more research on all that. I would welcome any scripture references that anyone thinks I’m contradicting.

The Messianic designation ‘Son of God’ is used on multiple occasions throughout the gospels and has its origins in the Hebrew Bible.

Son of God (Christianity) - Wikipedia

The Holy Quran affirms the Gospels so Muhammad’s references are about something else. Instead He criticises the implication that God physically had a literal son as suggested by the Nicene Creed.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

 

[KT Shamim]

Thank you for those references. Have you seen anything in the Quran that denies that Jesus was anointed by G_d as king of Israel?

Jesus according to the Qur'an was a prophet, messenger, or referred to as "apostle of Allah." Jesus was also referred to as a Messiah. Nothing in direct reference to being of royalty.

There is a argument to be made the Muhammad rejects the notion that Christ was the ‘son of god’ in the same manner as you or I might have a son. This is different from the designation ‘Son of God’ that the gospels affirm. The Holy Qur’an affirms the Gospels as being a Revelation from God.

The origins of the ‘son of god’ is the Nicene Creed that came about through the fourth century. Several centuries later the belief is rejected by Muhammad.

The ‘Son of God’ and the ‘son of god’ are two very different concepts. The former is a Messianic designation affirmed by the gospels, the latter implied through man made doctrine. The Gospels are affirmed, not rejected by the Holy Quran.

Gospel in Islam - Wikipedia

Jesus Christ's Prophethood was like the coming of the son of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) Prophethood was like the coming of God Himself. Referring to Biblical parable of the wicket tenants here.

 

[shunyadragon]

Jesus according to the Qur'an was a prophet, messenger, or referred to as "apostle of Allah." Jesus was also referred to as a Messiah. Nothing in direct reference to being of royalty.

Actually accurate. It is unfortunate that Roman Christianity made Jesus Christ into a Roman God.

 

[Jim]

... Roman Christianity made Jesus Christ into a Roman God.

Exactly.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There is a argument to be made the Muhammad rejects the notion that Christ was the ‘son of god’ in the same manner as you or I might have a son. This is different from the designation ‘Son of God’ that the gospels affirm. The Holy Qur’an affirms the Gospels as being a Revelation from God.

The origins of the ‘son of god’ is the Nicene Creed that came about through the fourth century. Several centuries later the belief is rejected by Muhammad.

The ‘Son of God’ and the ‘son of god’ are two very different concepts. The former is a Messianic designation affirmed by the gospels, the latter implied through man made doctrine. The Gospels are affirmed, not rejected by the Holy Quran.

Gospel in Islam - Wikipedia

Where is the Islamic source? From the what the OP is questioning, he is mention ing the Qur'an. You're providing an outside explanation. Now, with respect to the Masih, since we are talking about the meaning of son of God, can you provide an Islamic source to corroborate what you're saying?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Jesus Christ's Prophethood was like the coming of the son of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) Prophethood was like the coming of God Himself. Referring to Biblical parable of the wicket tenants here.

The above is borderline heretical according to Islam.

 

[Jim]

you've made this claim before and I already shown the holy Qur'an that it denies the claim.

"The Christ Jesus ...” - 4:171 (Asad)

“The Christ Jesus.”

ROTFL!

Thank you! You just filled in a piece of my puzzle!

 

[Sanzbir]

Where is the Islamic source? From the what the OP is questioning, he is mention ing the Qur'an. You're providing an outside explanation.

Well the OP also mentions the Bible. He says this specifically: "but I don’t think it denies that Jesus is the Son of G_d in the way that the Bible says He is, meaning that He is king of Israel".

So not only the Quran but the Bible should be relevant to the discourse, with the overall question being does the Quran deny the Biblical idea of a "son of God", different from the Christian, literal take on the term.

The Bible defines the "son of God" as the following: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." (Matthew 5:9) This makes it relatively clear that to the early Christians, it wasn't meant as a statement of direct, literal parentage but rather a title for anyone who preached peace.

So six hundred years then pass, after which Christians no longer use the term "son of God" to mean a peacemaker, and instead the Christians are now taking the term literally. So the Quran is given to deny the Christian term "son of God" that was understood in a literal sense in the seventh century.

But nothing in the Quran denies that Jesus is a peacemaker, therefore a "son of God" by the Biblical, non-literal definition of the term. If I'm wrong, cite the Surah that denies not only the literal Christian understanding of the term, but the Matthew definition of the term as well.

 

[PruePhillip]

In the time when the Quran was revealed.

"When the Quran was revealed." ???
When "Pearl of Great Price" was revealed to Joseph Smith
we read God acknowledged Jesus as His Son.

But who believes ANYTHING was revealed to Joseph Smith.
Most see him as a liar and a con-artist.
Ditto for Mohamed and his cohorts.

Muslims took the Jewish Old Testament and the Christian
New Testament, blended it with Arabic paganism and the like
and declared it was "revealed" to the world. It was not. It has
no authority.

 

[Jim]

Here’s how it looks to me now: The Quran says that Jesus was the Messiah, which is exactly what “Son of God” means in the Bible, and it says that He was a word from G_d. When it says that G_d has no Son, and that He neither begets nor is begotten, it means that Mary was not the mother of God, or of His Son.

 

[Muffled]

you've made this claim before and I already shown the holy Qur'an that it denies the claim. If you're going to provide a historical analysis of the situation provide some historical evidence. Saying "I think" or "perhaps" does not suffice. For a Baha'i you are sure pushing this issue of "sonship" which is something not even remotely mandated in Islam.

The Qur'an says:

" FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, [180] and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. [181] Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God. - 4:171 (Asad)

"The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could it be that He should have a child without there ever having been a mate for Him - since it is He who has created everything, and He alone knows everything?" - 6:101


"AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" [45] How perverted are their minds!" [46] - 9:30


"And say: "All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, [133] and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid" [134] -and [thus] extol His limitless greatness." - 17:111

"It is not conceivable that God should have taken unto Himself a son: limitless is He in His glory! [26] When He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it "Be" -and it is! - 19:35

"He to whom the dominion over the heavens and the earth belongs, and who begets no offspring, [2] and has no partner in His dominion: for it is He who creates every thing and determines its nature in accordance with [His own] design." 25:2

The only speculation in the Qur'an regarding sonship is the following:

"If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created." 39:4

I believe that word does not exist in the Quran. It was inserted by those who wish it to be so.

I believe that is a mistranslation.

I believe anything in parentheses is not in the original text and reflects the improper ideas of the translator.

I believe this is not in the original Arabic. The original Arabic reads "Allah his son".

 

[Muffled]

The Messianic designation ‘Son of God’ is used on multiple occasions throughout the gospels and has its origins in the Hebrew Bible.

Son of God (Christianity) - Wikipedia

The Holy Quran affirms the Gospels so Muhammad’s references are about something else. Instead He criticises the implication that God physically had a literal son as suggested by the Nicene Creed.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

I do not believe the Nicene creed suggests that but the Gnostics might well have been saying that Jesus had children.

 

[Muffled]

Here’s how it looks to me now: The Quran says that Jesus was the Messiah, which is exactly what “Son of “God” means in the Bible, and it says that He was a word from G_d. When it says that G_d has no Son, and that He neither begets nor is begotten, it means that Mary was not the mother of God, or of His Son.

I believe you are incorrect. Messiah means "deliverer." The term son of God appears in the OT and means something different. Son of God was an attribution to Jesus because He is visible as a son and is definitely of God and because God called Him that when He said "this is my son in whom I am well pleased." I believe that is a designation of position by God not a declaration of paternity.

I don't believe the word "from" is in there.

I do not believe so. I believe the concept is that God does not procreate. The NT uses the word begotten because there is no other word for saying that God created a pregnancy for Mary but the translators don't do that in the OT when God helps other women get pregnant or for Elizabeth the cousin of Mary perhaps because there was a man involved in the process.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Jesus according to the Qur'an was a prophet, messenger, or referred to as "apostle of Allah." Jesus was also referred to as a Messiah. Nothing in direct reference to being of royalty.

Then who was Jesus Father?

By the way, Messiah means a chosen King in the Hebrew Language. The Quran confirms Jesus was the Messiah to the Jews, meaning Jesus was the King of the Jews. Now, one of the reasons that the Jews do not accept Jesus, is because He was not a king. Now, what was intended by the title of Messiah, was not a worldly king. It denotes the Spiritual station of Christ. So, the correct interpretation is the key.