Why do Christians accept original sin but not collective responsibility?

[whirlingmerc]

Um, if I might modify the rhetoric? The end of slavery in the UK, and Europe was not the blood letting it was in America. There is a book about it, and a very heart rending movie. And, in a sense some Americans are still fighting that battle because America is so warlike.

Hard to reconcile that view with the Bible either new or Old testament
Man sinned. Sin and death entered the world the ground bore thorns
but one would come someday who would wear the crown of thorns and redeem them, Jesus
In itself not good but part of an overarching plan of God for His glory and salvation to those who believe

 

[whirlingmerc]

I want to credit @Ellen Brown for this idea

Without regurgitating scripture, I'm curious in the Christian theology of original sin ergo, " the sins of the father" why do some Christians not take responsibility for ancestral actions but can take on the responsibility of the actions of Adam? For example many Christians regarding the issue of slavery and/or the termination of Native American lands or the mistreatment of others say:

"I was not around back then"

or

"My family didn't own slaves"

or

"My ancestors may have done that but that was a long time ago."

Why is it that you readily accept Adam's sin against God, who by all rights you can claim Adam as the progenitor of mankind, but choose to not accept the actions of your ethic ancestors to lands that did not belong to them or the mistreatment of people?

Edit: Changed Thread Title

The bible has all men federally under sin with Adam
and all believers federally under grace in Christ

and yet there are examples of mistreatment of groups such as the drought in the days of David due to Saul's mistreatment of a ethnic group of people who the Jews made a deal with long before

Still I am a child of immigrants and it seems a bit odd to make the complaint stick
I do think the African-British-American trade swap that left millions of slaves in the US to eb mistreated was a sin as was much of the treatment of native americans. The early settlers had a high view of their rights and not high enough view of other's rights

(People are sinners be they of the Trump of Clinton type. And yes the liberals including church liberals of the day did support slavery in Wilberforce time and the Democrats of Lincolns day were not helpful either. Trump? is a bit undimplomatic and sadly was a less worse choice than Hillary who struggled with honesty)

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The bible has all men federally under sin with Adam
and all believers fererally under grace in Christ

and yet there are examples of mistreatment of groups such as the drought in the days of David due to Saul's mistreatment of a ethnic group of people who the Jews made a deal with long before

"Federally?"

 

[whirlingmerc]

"Federally?"

One person representing many

Federal representation means one person representing many
Adam - mankind
Christ - those who trust in Him

Believers are still responsible for actions both individuals and groups
and must appear before the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I thought Jesus was...considering Roman Law found no fault in him his only crime was stating he was the "son of God." Regardless you mentioned we were made in the image of Adam now you're saying God but in terms of spiritually. So we are physically in the likeness of Adam but spiritually in the likeness of God. Ok, so how am I responsible for Adam's sin? Is sin a genetic predisposition? If not, genetically then spiritually wouldn't that make my soul which is made in the image of God corrupted considering that I inherent an action I did not commit? Again, why am responsible for what one did but not the other?

No, No one of us is guilty of Adam' sin. Only Adam is guilty of Adam's sin.
Since Adam fathered us ' after ' he broke God's Law causing Adam too loose his physical perfection, then Adam passed down to us his acquired imperfection. We are only responsible for what we do, Not what Adam did.

We can't help being born ' after ' Adam sinned.
God's purpose is that we all be descendants of Adam and Eve.
If God would have gotten rid of Adam and Eve we would Not have been born.
That means we would Not have the opportunity to gain future everlasting life.
The passing of time has allowed time for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Plus, the passing of time shows mankind can Not successfully govern himself without God's guidance.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

One person representing many
Federal representation means one person representing many
Adam - mankind
Christ - those who trust in Him
Believers are still responsible for actions both individuals and groups
and must appear before the judgement seat of Christ.

I can agree in the community responsibility under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law (Deuteronomy 21:1-9) that those people (as a group) were culpable in that they failed to bring Jesus to Justice. After all they had the Law.

I find as individuals we will stand or appear before the Judgement Seat of Christ at the time of Matthew 25:31-33.
At this soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth the humble figurative ' sheep ' (verse 37) appear as individuals.
That is also true of the individual haughty figurative ' goats ' who receive an adverse judgement while the ' sheep ' receive a favorable judgement, and the ' sheep' will be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth beginning with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Today’s big question: did God really say we inherit Adam’s sin?

BIG answer: No, God did Not really say we inherit Adam's sin. Only Adam is guilty for Adam's sin.
If we were guilty of Adam's sin then Jesus could Not pay that ransom price for us - Matthew 20:28.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Believers are still responsible for actions both individuals and groups
and must appear before the judgement seat of Christ.

If such is true then are "believers" responsible for the actions of their brethren who do religious acts in the name of their lord? Is the phrase "am I my brother's keeper," true? If such is true, according to how you're phrasing it then it goes back to my hypothetical question as to why Christians as a whole do not take responsibility for the atrocities their brethren may do, but yet take responsibility in what Adam does? I forgot to add that when taking responsibility for what Adam does means in this context to believe in the idea of original sin. To believe one inherits the faculties of desire to transgress against God, because they believe they are endowed with the qualities and capabilities to do so.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Adam passed down to us his acquired imperfection. We are only responsible for what we do, Not what Adam did.

How are things that are virtuous and iniquitous passed down? From the act of Adam, in what mode are they passed down to us humans?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

BIG answer: No, God did Not really say we inherit Adam's sin. Only Adam is guilty for Adam's sin.
If we were guilty of Adam's sin then Jesus could Not pay that ransom price for us - Matthew 20:28.

Actually the opposite is true according to the following:

Getting rid of original sin
The only way a person can 'cleanse' their soul from sin is to:

• accept that Christ's death on the cross atoned for this sin
• accept that only God's grace can cure this sin
• confess their sins and ask for forgiveness
• be baptized

Redemption
In St Paul's letter to the Galatians, he wrote: "Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery". This conception of Redemption as freedom from bondage is crucial for Judeo-Christian thought.

According to this source, St. Augustine said we transmit Adam's sin through sexual intercourse:

St Augustine's theory
St Augustine, who largely devised the theory of original sin, thought that original sin was transmitted from generation to generation through sexual intercourse. Augustine did not say exactly how this happened.

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Original sin

We are responsible for Adam's sin according to the above, because we are genetically born with this burden like a mother who passes down the genetic predisposition to a particular illness. Our moral predisposition is to commit wrong action based on the actions of Adam and Eve.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How are things that are virtuous and iniquitous passed down? From the act of Adam, in what mode are they passed down to us humans?

Adam's imperfect leanings is his acquired trait that is passed down. Leanings toward wrongdoing.
Adam's guilt is Not passed down to us. We are innocent of what Adam did.
The opposite is a teaching of men outside of Scripture and Not scriptural, just taught as being Scripture.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Adam's imperfect leanings is his acquired

Behaviors are learned, not genetically passed down.

Adam's guilt is Not passed down to us. We are innocent of what Adam did.

You've already established this. If what you say is true and we are not responsible for what Adam did then Jesus' mission was meaningless.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Behaviors are learned, not genetically passed down.
You've already established this. If what you say is true and we are not responsible for what Adam did then Jesus' mission was meaningless.

I am wondering how Jesus' mission could be meaningless because we can Not resurrect oneself or another.
Jesus is given the resurrection power - Revelation 1:18 - to resurrect us.

I find parents have to correct behaviors, so wrong leanings are passed down.
No matter how hard we try we can Not stop sinning.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
Jesus' sinless life balanced the Scales of Justice for us so that we might live again.
Jesus faithful death undid the wrong Adam did, thus freeing us from our inherited imperfection from Adam.

 

[whirlingmerc]

If such is true then are "believers" responsible for the actions of their brethren who do religious acts in the name of their lord? Is the phrase "am I my brother's keeper," true? If such is true, according to how you're phrasing it then it goes back to my hypothetical question as to why Christians as a whole do not take responsibility for the atrocities their brethren may do, but yet take responsibility in what Adam does? I forgot to add that when taking responsibility for what Adam does means in this context to believe in the idea of original sin. To believe one inherits the faculties of desire to transgress against God, because they believe they are endowed with the qualities and capabilities to do so.

Believers are responsible period and the motives of the heart are known and judged, not merely the actions.