Infallibility

[dfnj]

Christian fundamentalists have it that the bible
is infallible, and that god guides their intrrpretation-
effectively making them infalluble.

It is infallible if you interpret it correctly. Just saying not that I agree with that position.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Wow, that is a long time. You must have done a lot of searching and research...

Becoming a Bahai for me was the outcome of one two week Christmas vacation back in 1970. I was not searching for anything but when I found the Faith I knew it was the truth after reading a few books. After that, I fell away from the Faith for decades for personal reasons, but I never lost my belief in Baha'u'llah. I am sort of back now although I am still not active in the Baha'i community, for personal reasons.

In my early 20s I abandoned my medical studies to search for the meaning of life. I had briefly become a born again Christian but after a few months had an epiphany that I needed to step back and reassess.

I became interested in Hinduism, Buddhism and meditation so went into the country, meditated daily, as I aspired to some higher state of consciousness I couldn’t define. After a year and a half of having failed to achieve the mystical experience I thought would be inevitable I become depressed.

I concluded there probably was no God and prayer was useless. After a while I became so depressed I could hardly do anything. I then turned to God and the heaviness of my heart lifted. I returned to church, and moved back to the city. I started going to Buddhist meetings too. I was frustrated though and so prayed to God to guide me to a community of like minded people.

Soon after I was invited to a Baha’i meeting. After 8 months of investigating the Baha’i Faith felt the next step was to become a Baha’i. I had some dreams with Bahá’u’lláh and Abdu’l-Bahá and prayed and studied the writings intensely for the next few years.

I then felt called by God to return to medical school. When I graduated I got married had children and started serving on the assembly and as an assistant which I’ve been doing on/off for the last 20 years.

I’ve been a Baha’i nearly 30 years. Maybe because I had such a tough 5 years searching, and then was confirmed in my new found faith with dreams and visions, I’ve cherished it a lot more than if it had come without effort.

 

[Dawnofhope]

OK maybe that's a bit unkind - its true that the scriptures have to be read with intelligence (whether or not one happens to be a believer) otherwise you will run the risk of either accepting or dismissing some idea in them based on a misunderstanding of what is actually said - like that bit about the sun standing still. I think it is pretty clear that that was not meant to be taken literally - but then again neither was it meant to be taken as having some hidden religious message - I think it was just a poetic way of expressing how much God had permitted the Israelites to achieve in battle in a single day - that seems to me to be the most rational and sensible interpretation and especially when it plainly says that it is quoting from another book which we know, from the only other direct reference to it, contained poetry.

I like the explanation about a poetic expression and that resonates.

And with reference to Matthew 24, it is clear that "Jesus" refers to "real events" that would take place in "the future" from the point of view of the setting (but clearly not from the point of view of the time of writing). "He" also made liberal use of hyperbole (see for example verses 9, 14, 21 and 22), and it is all written in apocalyptic style - intended by the writer to symbolize the sudden and catastrophic (from a Jewish point of view) transfer of God's special favour from the Jews to the newly emerging Christian religion.

Of course the gospels may well have been written after the destruction of Jerusalem and we don’t know for certain. I used to believe He was referring to real events but think He was just referring to the story. The story of Noah seems strongly allegorical to me in what it says about our relationship with God, His Manifestation, the consequences of following Him or turning away, and most of all the Eternal Covenant of God.

There are about 8 centuries between the earliest and latest of these "revelations" - you'd have thought at least a few eyes would have been opened in that time. But no - despite the succession of divinely approved prophets and the most widely influential Manifestation of God so far to have appeared on earth, the eyes of the majority seemed still to be firmly shut. There's none so blind as those who will not see!

According to Pew research nearly 70% of the worlds population will be either Christian or Muslim in another 50 years or so. So in that sense that's 70% who believe in Christ given that Muslims see Christ as an important prophet. That's impressive numbers as far as I can see.

On the other hand Baha'u'llah said:

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 200

So in a sense, religion will increasingly become a empty word on peoples lips.

That is part of the age we're living though. Where hearts grow cold towards God and His Messengers. So I think you are right that on the whole we are blind. That (religion) which could open our eyes, often contributes to that blindness.

Hmmm! Indeed - anyone whose version of the truth depends entirely on their own intellect is either mistaken or a genius. I am certainly not the latter - but I do have access to their ideas and discoveries. But the final analysis can only be a matter of individual intellect. That's the problem with revelation - even if it is from God, it still has to be processed through the human thinking faculties of the receiver before it can be encoded in scripture and passed on to others who must - of necessity pass it through their own human intellectual faculties in their attempt to understand it. "The truth" may not depend on your intellect - but your understanding of it certainly does.

I agree.

 

[Vinayaka]

Everyone is fallible including Prophets of God because we are all human. But in matters of religion Prophets are infallible.

That claim is only logical if the claimant can prove it. Onus is on the claimant ... as it was ... on all Prophets to prove that they are sent by God Himself and are, therefore, infallible as far as religious matters are concerned. With extraordinary signs that is what the true Prophets of God did.

What is the definition of extraordinary signs? ... well if you think the above makes sense we can continue.

You also asked what purpose it serves: so let it be understood that in the fight of good against evil the good side requires a leader around whom all good-natured could rally for an effective and focused strategy against the forces of evil. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community to which I belong is that community of majority good-natured human beings who are fighting against the forces of evil. War is long. Took Jesus' followers 300 years. But 300 years won't pass and we'll be victorious.

We can easily have strong leaders without attaching the infallible label. In Ahmadiyya, is the prophet infallible? I don't know. But I do like the Ahmadiyya community. Nice people.

 

[`mud]

Infallibility to quackery
Finding the right point in the middle.
The task is insurmountable !

 

[CG Didymus]

Exactly!
So, whenever a literal interpretation is against scientific facts, we know these verses must be interpreted symbolically.
In fact the Bahai writings interprets the Sun being stand still, to mean the divine law and commandment was without any change.
The divine laws and commands are likened to the Sun and the moon, as they symbolically give Light, that is, Light of guidance.

Here's the context. Explain it.
10 Now it came to pass, when Adoni-zedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them; 2 That they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all the men thereof were mighty.

3 Wherefore Adoni-zedek king of Jerusalem sent unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying, 4 Come up unto me, and help me, that we may smite Gibeon: for it hath made peace with Joshua and with the children of Israel.

5 Therefore the five kings of the Amorites, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon, gathered themselves together, and went up, they and all their hosts, and encamped before Gibeon, and made war against it.

6 And the men of Gibeon sent unto Joshua to the camp to Gilgal, saying, Slack not thy hand from thy servants; come up to us quickly, and save us, and help us: for all the kings of the Amorites that dwell in the mountains are gathered together against us.

7 So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valour.

8 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.

9 Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.

10 And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Beth-horon, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.

11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

 

[CG Didymus]

The day for a year principle is well established amongst many Christian traditions.

Day-year principle - Wikipedia

While its true that much of the OT documents the history of Hebrew people, the prophets often used symbolic or allegorical language.

Sure, prophets used symbolic language. How about historians?

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s well-established that various Christian groups take this literally, sure.

But it’s still funny that this is the thing you take literally, as opposed to a literal account of a battle, when the symbolism for day-year is such low-hanging fruit.

You don’t have to take my word for it. Read the context yourself:

Joshua 10:1-15
1 It wasn't long before My-Master-Zedek king of Jerusalem heard that Joshua had taken Ai and destroyed it and its king under a holy curse, just as he had done to Jericho and its king. He also learned that the people of Gibeon had come to terms with Israel and were living as neighbors.
2 He and his people were alarmed: Gibeon was a big city - as big as any with a king and bigger than Ai - and all its men were seasoned fighters.
3 Adoni-Zedek king of Jerusalem sent word to Hoham king of Hebron, Piram king of Jarmuth, Japhia king of Lachish, and Debir king of Eglon:
4 "Come and help me. Let's attack Gibeon; they've joined up with Joshua and the People of Israel."
5 So the five Amorite (Western) kings - the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon - combined their armies and set out to attack Gibeon.
6 The men of Gibeon sent word to Joshua camped at Gilgal, "Don't let us down now! Come up here quickly! Save us! Help us! All the Amorite kings who live up in the hills have ganged up on us."
7 So Joshua set out from Gilgal, his whole army with him - all those tough soldiers!
8 God told him, "Don't give them a second thought. I've put them under your thumb - not one of them will stand up to you."
9 Joshua marched all night from Gilgal and took them by total surprise.
10 God threw them into total confusion before Israel, a major victory at Gibeon. Israel chased them along the ridge to Beth Horon and fought them all the way down to Azekah and Makkedah.
11 As they ran from the People of Israel, down from the Beth Horon ridge and all the way to Azekah, God pitched huge stones on them out of the sky and many died. More died from the hailstones than the People of Israel killed with the sword.
12The day God gave the Amorites up to Israel, Joshua spoke to God, with all Israel listening: "Stop, Sun, over Gibeon; Halt, Moon, over Aijalon Valley."
13 And Sun stopped, Moon stood stock still Until he defeated his enemies.
14 There's never been a day like that before or since - God took orders from a human voice! Truly, God fought for Israel.
15 Then Joshua returned, all Israel with him, to the camp at Gilgal.

This is clearly meant to be taken literally. It even goes so far to say how amazing it was that God listened to Joshua.

Edit: sorry for the funky version. Was having trouble finding a place I could copy from without the formatting getting messed up. Here’s a link to my usual bible version: Redirect Notice

I like what you are arguing. I hadn't read this post yet, and put the same verses in a post to IT. What I have found with Baha'is, context doesn't matter. I've argued that it is just ancient people embellishing the story. That doesn't fly with them so much. The Baha'is prefer the "symbolic" interpretation. That way they can say God implanted clues in his Holy Books for the people with "spiritual" eyes to see. And all the rest of the people to argue whether it's literal or mythic fantasy.

 

[CG Didymus]

Often OT stories are embellished narratives, so part history, part myth.

The verses above are likely mythical, allegorised embellishments rather than literal history....unless you want to believe the sun and moon literally stood still.

I should have read ahead. You say "myth" as if it is not a bad thing to be in a book that is supposed to be the "Word of God"? That's a big problem for Christians, 'cause they are taught to trust as true and without errors... and when talking about historical things, literal. If it allegorized embellishments, then what about the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, walking on water and the rest? Embellishments, symbolism, or literal? Literal gives Christians a solid foundation of Jesus being the very literal Son of God. Symbolism? What? Symbolically rose from the dead and walk on water? Big deal. Although I know Baha'is, for some reason believe in the Virgin Birth, I don't know why. I'm still not buying into it being "scientifically" feasible, but you're the doctor.

Anyway, I still go with embellishment. They had to argue the case to make Jesus greater than everybody and everything, amidst claims from kings and prophets of things like rising from the dead and being born in a miraculous way. The writers out did them all and made Jesus virtually God himself. And his followers, the dummies, took the writings so literal that they believed Jesus was God himself.

 

[CG Didymus]

Hello,
There are 5 views when it comes to scriptures :

1. Those who believe in literal interpretations of Scriptures, and when it contradicts the current science, they say, the science is false. For example young earth believers.
2. Those who believe in literal interpretations, but they see those verses representing miracles. For example, resurrection of dead people in bible.
3. Those who believe in literal interpretation, and when it contradicts science, they see it as an evidence for disproving religion and prophets.
4. Those who believe the scriptures contain both literal as well as symbolic, but the symbolic verses are fairly simple to recognize. Most Christians have this view. Miracles of prophets are seen as literal for them.
5. Those who believe the Book of God contain literal as well as Figurative verses. In this view there is a hidden meaning in Figurative verses, which is not possible to be known by ordinary people. Only a Prophet can reveal its true meaning. They are the secretes of God, which are not be revealed until it's appointed time according to the wisdom of God. In this view The miracles of prophets have a figurative meaning rather than literal facts. For example resurrection of dead, is not literal fact, but when God guides an unbeliever, a spiritually dead person, is resurrected spiritually.

Now going back to your question, my view is the category 5. If you see a verse which contradicts science, it means you are misinterpreting it. Such verses have a figurative meaning, which intentionally is made to appear literal, as to keep its hidden, and secret meaning, and ordinary people would be unable to recognize its figurative meaning. But your view is category 3.

But Adrian just said it might be allegorized embellishments. Why isn't embellishments a reasonable explanation? Don't worry I know. It is because it has to be God's Word. If it had embellishments from the writers, then it can't be truly God's Word. But a secret, mystical, (absolutely ridiculous), symbolic passage, right in the middle of a historical narrative, can be easily explained as God having put it there to test his "true" believers.

But what was the science like in the days of Moses and Jesus and Muhammad? How could people in the ancient world know that the Sun couldn't stop for a few hours? How could they know that dead people don't come back to life and rise into the sky? Like the whole thing about Jesus coming back to life. Verse after verse of stories of Jesus meeting and talking and even eating with people after he had been killed. All those verses symbolic? What is the symbolism? I think the writers meant for the readers to believe it. But... I wonder... did God really want them to write what they did?

 

[CG Didymus]

He was the first prophet according to Islam.

Adam in Islam - Wikipedia



That's based on the Qur'an, not the bible.



I have my opinions just like anyone else. I know the differences between my personal opinions and what my faith teaches.



The parting of the red sea didn't happen. I believe in the Divine inspiration through the Holy Spirit of Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and Baha'u'llah through the sacred books that have resulted through their revelation and the influence these Great Teachers have had on world history.



There is no good reason to believe that Jesus believed the flood really happened. The language in Matthew 24 is apocalyptic in style, although He does foretell actual events at the beginning.



God is not the author of confusion. The Divine Message of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah is clear as the noon day sun.

Isaiah 6:10, Jeremiah 5:21, Ezekiel 12:2, Matthew 13:15, Acts of the apostles 28:27, Romans 11:8



I'm very perceptive lol.



Becoming a Baha'i was the culmination of a 5 year search for me. I've been a Baha'i for nearly 30 years. I'm happy with the outcome of my search and am no longer searching.

There are many references to the qualities one must have when searching as Baha'u'llah outlines:

O My brother! When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 264-270

I wasn't a particular spiritual person when I was searching for the truth and I'm not now. What I did learn is that I can not use my intellect alone to work out the truth.

So the Bible doesn't make Adam to be a manifestation, in fact, they make him out to be the one that caused the fall of man. But Islam makes him a manifestation... a "perfectly polished mirror", ? And the first one? But don't Baha'is believe there were manifestations prior to Adam? And this is not contradictions?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Here's the context. Explain it.
10 Now it came to pass, when Adoni-zedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them; 2 That they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all the men thereof were mighty.

3 Wherefore Adoni-zedek king of Jerusalem sent unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying, 4 Come up unto me, and help me, that we may smite Gibeon: for it hath made peace with Joshua and with the children of Israel.

5 Therefore the five kings of the Amorites, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon, gathered themselves together, and went up, they and all their hosts, and encamped before Gibeon, and made war against it.

6 And the men of Gibeon sent unto Joshua to the camp to Gilgal, saying, Slack not thy hand from thy servants; come up to us quickly, and save us, and help us: for all the kings of the Amorites that dwell in the mountains are gathered together against us.

7 So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he, and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valour.

8 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.

9 Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.

10 And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Beth-horon, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.

11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

I wish I had so much time.
I am not a Prophet of God to explain all those my friend.
But there are similar verses which Abdulbaha explianed in other instances which might be applicable. For example, in those statements regarding God sending down stones and killed many, it is often interpreted as God caused them to spiritually die. So, it is not a literal death or literal sending down stones or hail.
Sun and moon have many symbolic meanings. You can find various figurative interpretations in the Book of iqan by Bahaullah.

 

[siti]

Of course the gospels may well have been written after the destruction of Jerusalem and we don’t know for certain.

Of course we know that the Gospels were written after the destruction of Jerusalem - does anyone even dispute that? The question is whether Jesus really said anything about the destruction of Jerusalem if he lived and died before it happened? Or did the Gospel writer skillfully interweave ancient Jewish prophecy and recent historical narrative into a religious mythology and put the words into Jesus mouth as divine apokalypsis? Certainly looks that way doesn't it? But then, what price "infallibility"? How can we ever know whether or not Jesus really said any of the words attributed to him - let alone judge their religious or spiritual (let alone historical) veracity? Of course the answer is - we can't. We have no idea whether Jesus really ever even strung two coherent phrases together let alone whether his message was consistent with Muhammad's or Baha'u'llah's.

70% who believe in Christ given that Muslims see Christ as an important prophet. That's impressive numbers as far as I can see.

So we're back to the numbers game again are we? I thought we'd kicked that into touch already. 70% of humans probably used to believe that volcanic eruptions were the result of God touching the mountains, 70% of people probably used to believe that humans were specially created by God and were not the result of biological evolution (heck 70% of people probably still believe that now), 70% of people used to believe that disease was caused by demons, or that the earth was flat, or that if they sailed too far they'd either fall off or be eaten by dragons or whatever...70% of people can very easily be mistaken...70% of people probably believe that 70% is an impressive number...70% of people are probably wrong. I'm glad I'm not in the 70%.

 

[Trailblazer]

I’ve been a Baha’i nearly 30 years. Maybe because I had such a tough 5 years searching, and then was confirmed in my new found faith with dreams and visions, I’ve cherished it a lot more than if it had come without effort.

Thanks for sharing. You brought some things to mind...

Maybe I took the Faith for granted since it was so easy for me to recognize it, I don’t really know. All I know is that shortly after I became a Baha’i I began to heave serious emotional problems, but that was no doubt all latent within me because of unresolved childhood issues. That went on for 12 years and then I married my husband three weeks after we met and he was also a Baha’i who had serious emotional issues. Both of us had childhood issues because our parents did not want us, and both of us had depression and anxiety, although his depression was situational and mine was endogenous.

Anyhow, about a year before I got married I had already sought help from a psychiatrist so I was on the road to recovery. That took upwards of 15 years of my life, and during those years I had nothing to do with the Faith. My husband also had issues so he was not participating in any Baha’i activities either. I still had to work and make a living but because of our childhood issues we never had any children.

I always knew who Baha’u’llah was but I never had any feelings for Him, and any feelings I had towards God were negative. That is putting it mildly. I blamed God for all my suffering because after all, it says in the Writings that God sends the tests. I know all the reasons tests are supposed to be good for us but that does not change the suffering incurred, relentless suffering. Perhaps if I did not have endogenous depression and anxiety it would not have been so difficult to endure it. I was never able to get any help from antidepressant drugs, they nearly killed me, but after I quit taking them I got a lot of help from homeopathic medicine which I took for about 15 years. I never had major depression again after that but I will always have dysthymia. A good day for me is when I am not depressed or anxious about something; I don’t expect much more and I do not need any more than that.

A lot of people seem to think “turning to God” is a cure for depression, but it is no more of a cure for depression than it is a cure for cancer. It helps not to shut God out but it is difficult to love a God you believe is deliberately torturing you just to teach you a lesson. I am quite certain it will all become clear after I die and go to the spiritual world, but meanwhile.....

I have lost everything that matters most to me in this life, except my husband, and I am sure more loss is on the horizon. This gives the words “the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” a whole new meaning for me. I believe we have free will so we are responsible to do everything possible to help ourselves but sometimes that is not enough. The buck stops with God since God is omnipotent, so God could help if He wanted to help.

“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 73​

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209​

I cannot help but think logically so I cannot believe God is “All-Loving” just because “some” scriptures say that. Scriptures also say that God has wrath and directs it at whomsoever He willeth. To deny that is to deny the Bible, the Qur’an and the Writings of Baha’u’llah.

 

[siti]

So, whenever a literal interpretation is against scientific facts, we know these verses must be interpreted symbolically.

So the virgin birth is presumably to be interpreted symbolically then? How so? What is the symbolism? Or is this another case of cherry po...er...I mean...picking (unfortunate Freudian slip there!).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So the virgin birth is presumably to be interpreted symbolically then? How so? What is the symbolism? Or is this another case of cherry po...er...I mean...picking (unfortunate Freudian slip there!).

How do we know scientifically it is impossible? Exceptions can happen.
Abdulbaha explained it in the Book 'some answered questions'.

 

[siti]

How do we know scientifically it is impossible? Exceptions can happen.
Abdulbaha explained it in the Book 'some answered questions'.

Then how do we know that the sun couldn't stand still?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then how do we know that the sun couldn't stand still?

Look at the explanation of Abdulbaha about why having a child without father is logically possible. Now, explain how Sun standing still logically is possible.

 

[KT Shamim]

Does the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community consider guru's such as Shiva and Krishna as Prophets? If not, then why not?

The declaration of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
"There was a prophet of God in India who was dark in colour and his name was ‘Kahan’." (“Taarikh-i-Hamdaan Dailami” Baab-ul-Kaaf. See Pocket book p: 854 by Malik Abdur Rehman Khadim 6th edition Published in 1952)

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community which is nothing but the true Islam believe Krishna, Zoroaster and Buddha were all Prophets of God though their teachings as is usually the case were corrupted by their subsequent followers.

https://www.alislam.org/hindi/Shri-Krishan-Ji-Aur-Kalki-Avatar.pdf (Hindi)
Hinduism (English)

Islam instructs us not only to respect all Prophets of other major religions of the world but to believe in all previous Prophets and lack of belief in their truth renders a Muslim's faith invalid.

 

[KT Shamim]

We can easily have strong leaders without attaching the infallible label. In Ahmadiyya, is the prophet infallible? I don't know. But I do like the Ahmadiyya community. Nice people.

The founding Prophet of our community, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (on him be peace) who nothing but a slave of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was infallible as far as religious matters are concerned. That is required because without some sort of infallibility protecting their commandments it becomes useless to be instructed to obey all their commandments. While it is important to look for and find wisdom behind commandments however disobedience until agreement in all matters is found leads to a very inefficient community.

That is why choice of leadership matters and the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (thank you for your compliment) is full of nice people for having the best leader in the world.