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Why fire?

Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Epic Beard Man said:
in Christian and Islamic tradition, fire is symbolic as a form of punishment in the hereafter. In some interpretations sulfur is implied inChristian eschatology, but why fire? Why is the act of burning significant as a form of punishment?

Islam provides the most nightmarish imagery of hell. But why hot boiling water, or fire burning off the epidermis? I figure that in life people suffer simply from memory or from a loved one loss in an early death, but one thing that alludes me is why fire?

Surely one can suffer from being away from God, the source of ecstasy and happiness. I don’t see how fire can trump the sense of loss.
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Fire is at the base of primal fear. Not surprising it's used so much.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Epic Beard Man said:
in Christian and Islamic tradition, fire is symbolic as a form of punishment in the hereafter. In some interpretations sulfur is implied inChristian eschatology, but why fire? Why is the act of burning significant as a form of punishment?

Islam provides the most nightmarish imagery of hell. But why hot boiling water, or fire burning off the epidermis? I figure that in life people suffer simply from memory or from a loved one loss in an early death, but one thing that alludes me is why fire?

Surely one can suffer from being away from God, the source of ecstasy and happiness. I don’t see how fire can trump the sense of loss.
Click to expand...
you are correct to question the image

the fire is of mind and heart
the desire that cannot be quenched

fire tempers steel
the sword is brittle if not touched by fire.....twice
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
adrian009 said:
Fire can also have positive connotations of purity and light. Sometimes we need to experience the fire of hell to truely taste the sweetness of heaven.

O SON OF MAN! My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it.
Bahá’u’lláh
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Hard to comprehend God’s mercy as your skin is being burned off and regenerated.
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Fire burns, and the pain of burning lasts quite a long while after the initial damage.

I have to imagine that death by fire is not only one of the worst ways to go, but is probably also one of the most dramatic to witness - as people would have done back when all of this imagery was being dreamt up.

When you picture someone being beheaded, their head is lopped off and that's pretty much the end. Hanging causes a struggle, but the victim is unable to make much noise. Drowning is silent. Freezing to death takes a while and you're numb in the end. But burning alive? I picture screams of agony, the person writhing involuntarily as their body attempts to escape the pain being signaled from every single nerve that isn't already toast. If method of execution stood out in any witnesses minds, I bet death by fire stays top-of-mind.

And when you trying to scare people into believing a fiction "for their own good," why wouldn't you go to the most evocative method of torturous pain and death for your story of punishment for not believing?
 
syo

syo

Well-Known Member
LuisDantas said:
How is it presented in Orthodox Christianity?
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God is fire. When we die our souls connect to God(fire). The souls that are in tune with God, merge to the fire(merge with God) and have eternal bliss. The souls that are selfish, evil etc. are annihilated by God/fire and simply cease to exist.
 
Agent

Agent

Member
Dante was good at fire and brimstone that the Puritans could look back to for their sermons: Jonathan Edwards Sinners in the hands of an angry God. This would prove to be effective for the stories of the Catholic Nuns to preach to children in chatechism.
 
Epic Beard Man

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Agent said:
Dante was good at fire and brimstone that the Puritans could look back to for their sermons: Jonathan Edwards Sinners in the hands of an angry God. This would prove to be effective for the stories of the Catholic Nuns to preach to children in chatechism.
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I know this is serious but I had to do it

 
syo

syo

Well-Known Member
Epic Beard Man said:
According to Christian and Islamic eschatology no
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Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It doesn't say torment. Maybe Catholics and Muslims believe torment, ok with me.
 
S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Epic Beard Man said:
How is the soul/skin being engulfed where suffering occurs purifies?
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I don't wholly understand the mechanism behind it yet, but the majority of the world's cultures seem to be of the opinion that suffering is somehow necessary for personal development. Which admittedly seems odd to me, since the end game of spirituality is in ending suffering. Alchemical traditions within Christian and Muslim societies called it the Nigredo, or "the black" in one of their three stages of development.

Why is suffering a necessary stage for personal development?? I don't fully know or understand yet, it's the current thing I'm studying, trying to understand why this idea of suffering as a necessary step has arisen cross-culturally.

But the question of the original post is why fire, specifically, yes?? Why not another form or cause of suffering, but why is the idea of fire used. Well, fire can symbolize transformation, hardships that cause the strengthening of a thing through purification. A symbol that can be seen again in the terminology of alchemical symbolism through the process of calcination or even just generally in a cross-cultural understanding that fire is a symbol of pain that can transform for the better, for example in the lyrics of this excellent Indian folk metal song. Only after enduring the tests of fire iron is forged.

So I'd say if you want to symbolize suffering in a sense where the suffering can help or transform rather than just being nothing but suffering, the symbol of fire works better than suffering through other means, such as cold or cutting or starvation or the like.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Epic Beard Man said:
in Christian and Islamic tradition, fire is symbolic as a form of punishment in the hereafter. In some interpretations sulfur is implied inChristian eschatology, but why fire? Why is the act of burning significant as a form of punishment?

Islam provides the most nightmarish imagery of hell. But why hot boiling water, or fire burning off the epidermis? I figure that in life people suffer simply from memory or from a loved one loss in an early death, but one thing that alludes me is why fire?

Surely one can suffer from being away from God, the source of ecstasy and happiness. I don’t see how fire can trump the sense of loss.
Click to expand...
although fire can be seen as a form of punishment, it can also be seen as a transforming energy, spirit. It would especially punishing to those who have permanency issues, or attachments to material things, forms.


Acts 2:3
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.


tongues-of-fire-pentecost.jpg


Revelation 19:17
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God

Halos
 
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