Satan is liar and the father of it

metis · Jul 25, 2018

Tumah said:
Yeah, I've seen other do it too. I never understood why. I thought you might.

I honestly don't know, but it is used 13 times in the Masoretic text and is sometimes translated as "the accuser" or "the adversary"-- https://www.quora.com/What-is-Ha-Satan-Is-it-the-same-as-regular-Satan

Stevicus · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
Some people believe satan is a god. What is a lie? It doesn't exist so it's nothing really. It's illusion. So satan created ... nothing? What god or creator makes nothing and tells you it is something?

So the fact is satan made nothing(lies, illusion something that appears true but isn't) whereas Adonai made everything else that is true and really valuable.

Sometimes I wonder if their roles aren't actually reversed, at least in terms of how they're portrayed in the eyes of religionists. Is it possible that the entity commonly known as "Satan" is actually "God," and vice versa?

It would explain a lot, if that was the case.

Tumah · Jul 25, 2018

metis said:
I honestly don't know, but it is used 13 times in the Masoretic text and is sometimes translated as "the accuser" or "the adversary"-- https://www.quora.com/What-is-Ha-Satan-Is-it-the-same-as-regular-Satan

Yeah, I get that. It just seems weird to transliterate the definite article along with the noun. It would be like saying, "and haAdam knew Eve his wife". It just sounds weird.

Twilight Hue · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
Some people believe satan is a god. What is a lie? It doesn't exist so it's nothing really. It's illusion. So satan created ... nothing? What god or creator makes nothing and tells you it is something?

So the fact is satan made nothing(lies, illusion something that appears true but isn't) whereas Adonai made everything else that is true and really valuable.

Want to know one the biggest contradictions in the Bible?

If Satan is a liar and the father of it, then that must mean God taught Satan how to lie and what it meant. That would make God the Father of Lies.

If not, then Satan is completely innocent because he wouldn't have known what a lie was in the first place.

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Nowhere Man said:
Want to know one the biggest contradictions in the Bible?

If Satan is a liar and the father of it, then that must mean God taught Satan how to lie and what it meant. That would make God the Father of Lies.

If not, then Satan is completely innocent because he wouldn't have known what a lie was in the first place.

According to the Bible his original sin was pride. What is pride? It's when we deceive ourselves. Satan allowed himself to become self-deluded. He thought he was better than he really was. That's the origin of all falsehood.

So pride came first and then lies. No God didn't need to teach the angel to lie. His own heart lied to him first and then he invented lies.

Twilight Hue · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
According to the Bible his original sin was pride. What is pride? It's when we deceive ourselves. Satan allowed himself to become self-deluded. He thought he was better than he really was. That's the origin of all falsehood.

So pride came first and then lies. No God didn't need to teach the angel to lie. His own heart lied to him first and then he invented lies.

How did Satan know he was self-deluded then?

Stevicus · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
According to the Bible his original sin was pride. What is pride? It's when we deceive ourselves. Satan allowed himself to become self-deluded. He thought he was better than he really was. That's the origin of all falsehood.

So pride came first and then lies. No God didn't need to teach the angel to lie. His own heart lied to him first and then he invented lies.

How could his own heart lie to him? Pride may be a sin, but it's also a part of our emotional makeup which was ostensibly part of the intentional design of the Creator. Is it an individual's fault for feeling an emotion he was designed by his Creator to feel?

Rival · Jul 25, 2018

Tumah said:
The 'ha' is just the definite article. I don't understand why some people transliterate that part.

I often see it done by Christians who want to make themselves look Hebrew literate; you know, the same kind who call Jesus 'Yeshua' and Paul 'Rav Sha'ul'. I suppose some people might want to to level the same comment at me when I use words like 'Shabbos' and so on, but I more or less tend to just pick these words up without realising, like when I learnt only a while ago that 'moshiach' was me (and many others of course) typing 'mashiach' in the accent we hear most

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi · Jul 25, 2018

Satan was created for the sole purpose of falling from grace. Yet he continues to follow God's will be tempting humanity toward their own damnation. Yet he will never receive salvation from God, but will struck down into the depths of hell. If thats not the saddest existence in all of creation then I don't know what is.

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Nowhere Man said:
How did Satan know he was self-deluded then?

He didn't necessarily know.

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Stevicus said:
How could his own heart lie to him? Pride may be a sin, but it's also a part of our emotional makeup which was ostensibly part of the intentional design of the Creator. Is it an individual's fault for feeling an emotion he was designed by his Creator to feel?

He was a holy angel. He wasn't created with pride. Angels are spirits not flesh and blood.

Shadow Wolf · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
He was a holy angel. He wasn't created with pride. Angels are spirits not flesh and blood.

If he wasn't created with pride, how did he know pride?

74x12 said:
What is pride? It's when we deceive ourselves.

noun: pride; plural noun: prides
1.a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.
How is that lying to oneself? How is that even a "bad" thing to feel?

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Tumah said:
Some would say, attributing to Satan his own power and creative acts, is exactly the definition of a god. And if you're not describing dualism in that last sentence, I don't know what it is.

Dualism is more like Zoroastrianism. Satan doesn't equal God at all.

Psalm 82 is interesting because God says to a certain council "I have said ye are gods" but God ends up the Psalm by saying that they will all die like men. So they may be "gods" but they're going to be judged anyway.

metis said:
Ir is "Satan" symbolic of our propensity to sometimes do evil?

If Satan (actually haSatan) has sovereignty over his own domain, we gotta a problem = polytheism. The way around this, which can be found in the book of Job, is that God allows Satan to do his own thing.

The Bible calls him the prince of the power of the air and prince of this world. So he does have domain and sovereignty, but he can't be said to equal God at all.

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Shadow Wolf said:
If he wasn't created with pride, how did he know pride?

It began with vanity apparently. Thinking too much about how beautiful he was.

Shadow Wolf said:
noun: pride; plural noun: prides
1.a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired.
How is that lying to oneself? How is that even a "bad" thing to feel?

Pride is when you are thinking more of yourself than what is truthful.

Merriam Webster:
: the quality or state of being proud: such as
a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi said:
Satan was created for the sole purpose of falling from grace. Yet he continues to follow God's will be tempting humanity toward their own damnation. Yet he will never receive salvation from God, but will struck down into the depths of hell. If thats not the saddest existence in all of creation then I don't know what is.

He doesn't have to go on sinning though does he? Out of pure spite he continues to tempt us to so that we will be damned just like he is. And what does he gain by seeing us damned? Nothing. He's doing it out of pure hatred for us.

Shadow Wolf · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
Pride is when you are thinking more of yourself than what is truthful.

That would be called arrogance.

Unveiled Artist · Jul 25, 2018

74x12 said:
Some people believe satan is a god. What is a lie? It doesn't exist so it's nothing really. It's illusion. So satan created ... nothing? What god or creator makes nothing and tells you it is something?

So the fact is satan made nothing(lies, illusion something that appears true but isn't) whereas Adonai made everything else that is true and really valuable.

What is a satan?

Im already having trouble figuring what the abrahamic god is. Is there a good non-symbolic and religious definition of it?

Shadow Wolf · Jul 25, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
What is a satan?

A pretty nice guy, once you get to know him and get over all the slander and libel Christians attached to him.

Unveiled Artist · Jul 25, 2018

Shadow Wolf said:
A pretty nice guy, once you get to know him and get over all the slander and libel Christians attached to him.

I wish there was a "huh?" icon or something.

74x12 · Jul 25, 2018

Shadow Wolf said:
A pretty nice guy, once you get to know him and get over all the slander and libel Christians attached to him.

Oh yeah ... homicidal maniac, nice guy.

Satan is liar and the father of it

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