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Kingdom Gospel ism

OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
The Kingdom Gospel is all about conditions, just as the Promise to Abraham had it's own conditions. Since Jesus tells us that the Father gave to Jesus those who belonged to God, doesn't that mean that the Law of Moses has continued from Eden through Matthew... and continues like skipping-stones, through the Revelation? Since the Heaven and Earth have not passed away and will not do so until the Millennium of the Kingdom is finished, and since Jesus says that His words will never pass away... I find that the gospel of Paul is written exclusively for the gentiles. Because according to Jesus, not one word of the Law is removed from His Kingdom Gospel, making His Gospel the gospel to the circumcision.

I am new here... so, moderators, if you please... tell me if I do wrong in posting this thread.
 
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OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Rival said:
What's the debate?
Click to expand...
It appears to be based upon the two distinct gospels, to two different sets of people. One, those who kept the circumcision and all of the 10 commandments, even outside of the land of Israel. The other, for those who didn't want the law, or weren't genetic Israel from the Lost Sheep.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
OtherSheep said:
It appears to be based upon the two distinct gospels, to two different sets of people. One, those who kept the circumcision and all of the 10 commandments, even outside of the land of Israel. The other, for those who didn't want the law, or weren't genetic Israel from the Lost Sheep.
Click to expand...
You know that there are more than ten commandments, yes?
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
OtherSheep said:
The Kingdom Gospel is all about conditions, just as the Promise to Abraham had it's own conditions. Since Jesus tells us that the Father gave to Jesus those who belonged to God, doesn't that mean that the Law of Moses has continued from Eden through Matthew... and continues like skipping-stones, through the Revelation? Since the Heaven and Earth have not passes away and will not do so until the Millennium of the Kingdom is finished, and since Jesus says that His words will never pass away... I find that the gospel of Paul is written exclusively for the gentiles. Because according to Jesus, not one word of the Law is removed from His Kingdom Gospel, making His Gospel the gospel to the circumcision.

I am new here... so, moderators, if you please... tell me if I do wrong in posting this thread.
Click to expand...
Either you're born again or you are not. If you're not yet born again then what difference does it make if you're under the Law or not? You still need to be born again or you're not even in the body of Jesus yet!

If you're a Jew and born again; then your old life is dead and gone. Buried. Christ is risen from the dead and the power of the resurrection means you're living under a new Law. Because you're members of His body. The human body is comprised of "cells" that make every organ. The body of Jesus is like this as well. Whoever is born again are the cells of His body.

If Christ died to the Law(taking the curse by hanging on a tree) and rose from the dead by the holy Spirit; then how can He go back to the Law of Moses that He died unto for our sakes??? Why should He? So, He lives by the holy Spirit and this holy Spirit is the Law of the new Covenant.

John 3:3-5, Jeremiah 31:31-34
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
OtherSheep said:
Of course. But how many of the ordinances can be kept outside of a land being governed by God via the law of Moses?
Click to expand...
Quite a few. Loads, in fact.

Kashrut
Niddah laws
Laws of purity
Laws regarding sexual conduct
Laws pertaining to cattle, agriculture etc.
Laws regarding modesty
Laws regarding holy days
Shabbos
Circumcision

etc.

One need not live in Israel to observe Torah, although there are some things that require it.
 
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OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
74x12 said:
Either you're born again or you are not. If you're not yet born again then what difference does it make if you're under the Law or not? You still need to be born again or you're not even in the body of Jesus yet!

If you're a Jew and born again; then your old life is dead and gone. Buried. Christ is risen from the dead and the power of the resurrection means you're living under a new Law. Because you're members of His body. The human body is comprised of "cells" that make every organ. The body of Jesus is like this as well. Whoever is born again are the cells of His body.

If Christ died to the Law(taking the curse by hanging on a tree) and rose from the dead by the holy Spirit; then how can He go back to the Law of Moses that He died unto for our sakes??? Why should He? So, He lives by the holy Spirit and this holy Spirit is the Law of the new Covenant.

John 3:3-5, Jeremiah 31:31-34
Click to expand...

Jesus never says He died to the Law. How could He when He tells us that the Law will not pass away until Heaven and Earth pass away? To be born from above you must love Jesus and be keeping His commandments... then Jesus will give you the Holy Spirit, to remind you of all that He has said, and to explain to you what He meant. The New Covenant is only different from the First Covenant by the advent of the Holy Spirit who does what Jesus says He would do... write the Law on our hearts. Jesus says His word will never pass away, and that by His words we are to be judged. He proves this to us in the Book of the Revelation, by saying I know your works. Works are the fruitful seed of the parable of the sower. Works are the fig tree coming to life at the time of the end. Philadelphia is given the ability to pass through Tribulation unscathed, because she is Brotherly Love... which is what good fruits literally mean.
 
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exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
OtherSheep said:
The Kingdom Gospel is all about conditions, just as the Promise to Abraham had it's own conditions. Since Jesus tells us that the Father gave to Jesus those who belonged to God, doesn't that mean that the Law of Moses has continued from Eden through Matthew... and continues like skipping-stones, through the Revelation? Since the Heaven and Earth have not passed away and will not do so until the Millennium of the Kingdom is finished, and since Jesus says that His words will never pass away... I find that the gospel of Paul is written exclusively for the gentiles. Because according to Jesus, not one word of the Law is removed from His Kingdom Gospel, making His Gospel the gospel to the circumcision.

I am new here... so, moderators, if you please... tell me if I do wrong in posting this thread.
Click to expand...
What is the "gospel of Paul?
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Rival said:
Quite a few. Loads, in fact.

Kashrut
Niddah laws
Laws of purity
Laws regarding sexual conduct
Laws pertaining to cattle, agriculture etc.
Laws regarding modesty
Laws regarding holy days
Shabbos
Circumcision

etc.

One need not live in Israel to observe Torah.
Click to expand...

How many of those laws haven't been addressed by the Kingdom Gospel? If you love God with everything that you are, and love your brother as yourself, you have fulfilled the Law, according to Jesus. Loving your brother means not tempting him into sin. And not everyone is rich enough to afford their own cattle. Nor should we have to trust that some false shepherd hasn't been feeding chicken parts to chicken. It appears to make more sense to do as Daniel and friends, and skip animal products altogether. Especially, given the "eating foods sacrificed to idols" warning in Revelation.

I am curious, though... how do you keep holy days without the temple in Jerusalem? How can you even tithe without the Levites? I should tell you, I don't believe that the Talmud has a place beside the First Testament... and also, that I don't read Hebrew.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
OtherSheep said:
How many of those laws haven't been addressed by the Kingdom Gospel? If you love God with everything that you are, and love your brother as yourself, you have fulfilled the Law, according to Jesus. Loving your brother means not tempting him into sin. And not everyone is rich enough to afford their own cattle. Nor should we have to trust that some false shepherd hasn't been feeding chicken parts to chicken. It appears to make more sense to do as Daniel and friends, and skip animal products altogether. Especially, given the "eating foods sacrificed to idols" warning in Revelation.

I am curious, though... how do you keep holy days without the temple in Jerusalem? How can you even tithe without the Levites? I should tell you, I don't believe that the Talmud has a place beside the First Testament... and also, that I don't read Hebrew.
Click to expand...
I'm not bothered about what the Gospel says about the Law because I'm not a Christian, so all of that is rubbish to me.

Holy days are kept without sacrifices, just as in the days when there was no Temple. However, if you don't believe in the Oral Law, then I can't really help you; and in any case, I don't wish to derail your thread, which is aimed at Christians.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
OtherSheep said:
Jesus never says He died to the Law. How could He when He tells us that the Law will not pass away until Heaven and Earth pass away? To be born from above you must love Jesus and be keeping His commandments... then Jesus will give you the Holy Spirit, to remind you of all that He has said, and to explain to you what He meant. The New Covenant is only different from the First Covenant by the advent of the Holy Spirit who does what Jesus says He would do... write the Law on our hearts. Jesus says His word will never pass away, and that by His words we are to be judged. He proves this to us in the Book of the Revelation, by saying I know your works. Works are the fruitful seed of the parable of the sower. Works are the fig tree coming to life at the time of the end. Philadelphia is given the ability to pass through the Great Tribulation unscathed, because she is Brotherly Love... which is what good fruits literally mean.
Click to expand...
"Born from above" is the literal interpretation (and it really does have value because people are literally born from heaven) but the implication in the Greek is that to be born from above is to be born "anew". So the primary meaning is to be born anew. We can't ignore that. That obviously means it really is saying that we should be born again. Therefore, I disagree with you. Whoever is born again into the body of Christ is a new creature. Old things are passed away whether they used to be a Jew or gentile. They are now a new race. B'nai ha Elohim. The sons and daughters of God.
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Rival said:
I'm not bothered about what the Gospel says about the Law because I'm not a Christian, so all of that is rubbish to me.

Holy days are kept without sacrifices, just as in the days when there was no Temple. However, if you don't believe in the Oral Law, then I can't really help you; and in any case, I don't wish to derail your thread, which is aimed at Christians.
Click to expand...

IMHO, the Christians are like Antioch, which followed Paul.

My thread is written to The Way, who "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus."
 
OtherSheep

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
74x12 said:
Whoever is born again
Click to expand...

The Revelation shows the bride as a separate human being... the 144k standing on Zion, which are the two witnesses of Judah and Israel. Psalm 45:9 says that the bride is the queen, standing next to the King who is obviously Jesus.

His sheep hear His voice, and will follow no one else.
 
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