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The watchmaker

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You find a watch on a deserted beach. You pick it up, and notice all the intricate parts. That's an interesting watch...
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You find a watch on a deserted beach. You pick it up, and notice all the intricate parts. That's an interesting watch...
You assume the watch must be designed. However, you walk a little further inland and, in the middle of a forest, you find a tree from which hundreds of watches appear to be sprouting like flowers. Now what do you think?
 

Earthling

David Henson
You assume the watch must be designed. However, you walk a little further inland and, in the middle of a forest, you find a tree from which hundreds of watches appear to be sprouting like flowers. Now what do you think?

The tree must have evolved from a Ford Escort?
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
You find a watch on a deserted beach. You pick it up, and notice all the intricate parts. That's an interesting watch...
I can only assume you were interrupted or distracted when you posted this because it seems incomplete. You’ve not actually presented anything to discuss or debate. We could guess that you’d intended to discuss the Watchmaker Analogy but give that’s been argued back and forth for many years by better people than any of us to no definitive conclusion, unless you’ve somehow come up with a new aspect to it, which seems unlikely, I really don’t see the point. What would it achieve?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
The Watchmaker is a flawed proposition to show that, like the watch which has a maker, the world too must also have a maker. Watches are artifacts that ARE made by an external agent. They are mechanisms. The world is not made; it is grown and evolved from the inside out. It is conscious and alive, just as you are conscious and alive. You are not separate from the Universe; the Universe is not separate from you. The Universe is not a machine. It is an evolving organic manifestation of Pure Abstract Intellilgence, Unborn, Unmade, Uncaused, playing itself as 'The Universe'.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
If I saw watches growing on a tree I'd be on some powerful chemical, lol.

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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The Watchmaker is a flawed proposition to show that, like the watch which has a maker, the world too must also have a maker. Watches are artifacts that ARE made by an external agent. They are mechanisms. The world is not made; it is grown and evolved from the inside out. It is conscious and alive, just as you are conscious and alive. You are not separate from the Universe; the Universe is not separate from you. The Universe is not a machine. It is an evolving organic manifestation of Pure Abstract Intellilgence, Unborn, Unmade, Uncaused, playing itself as 'The Universe'.
Another point is we already know who makes watches beforehand. The source is empirically established.

That cannot be said for a deity. Much less a deity making watches and leaving them in abandoned areas for naive people to come across and wonder who made it?

If I came across a watch in an abandoned or remote area, I'd probably look for the owner first if possible or say it's my lucky day, I found a cool watch!

Not wondering if it grew there something. Duh!! :0b
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
You find a watch on a deserted beach. You pick it up, and notice all the intricate parts. That's an interesting watch...
You really need to understand why the analogy contains a watch in the first place. You choose something we humans have experience with as having been created/crafted. However, your expectation is that God created everything. Even the sand on the beach. So why is the sand any less miraculous to find than the watch?

Also, no material in the watch is of man's making. All materials that can possibly exist would only be able to exist through God allowing them to exist in your opinion, right? Since you believe He authored all of creation, then, for example, "plastic" was made possible through God's will on the matter of what happens when particular elements are brought together into complex molecules. So, all man has done when he made the watch was to arrange God's creations (the elements and compounds) into very specific configurations. Isn't it still far more miraculous to be able to dictate the materials that exist in the universe? Why all this focus on a relatively mundane/boring watch?!
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The Watchmaker is a flawed proposition to show that, like the watch which has a maker, the world too must also have a maker. Watches are artifacts that ARE made by an external agent. They are mechanisms. The world is not made; it is grown and evolved from the inside out. It is conscious and alive, just as you are conscious and alive. You are not separate from the Universe; the Universe is not separate from you. The Universe is not a machine. It is an evolving organic manifestation of Pure Abstract Intellilgence, Unborn, Unmade, Uncaused, playing itself as 'The Universe'.
Did you not read the premise, or something?
 
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