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Can one have truthful experiences supported by reason but not supported by logic?

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Can one have truthful experiences supported by reason but not supported by logic?

Regards

__________
Inspired by #186 from friend joe1776 , with thanks.


Generally the individual decides on the truth of an experience for themselves. Neither reason nor logic are infallible. Using either can result in completely wrong answers.

Science actually requires verification. Actual proof of reason or logic. Science is also fallible but you are more likely to get closer to the actuality of a thing.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Sans the OP clarifying what they mean by "reason" and "logic," one might speculate a situation like this:
  • My favorite color is green. The reason for this is because I enjoy the experience of the color green, which is the color of plants (I like plants). There is no logic behind this reason; it is not subject to strict principles of validity or argumentation.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Give me an example of the distinction between reason and logic as you understand those concepts, @paarsurrey
Reason is common sense and wisdom endowed to humans by G-d naturally to decipher meaning in the things with one's experiences with the available sources of knowledge.
Logic is to get meanings as per the standards/systems fixed by the humans, and it is not as old as the reason is with the humans since inception.
I may be wrong. Right, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Generally the individual decides on the truth of an experience for themselves. Neither reason nor logic are infallible. Using either can result in completely wrong answers.

Science actually requires verification. Actual proof of reason or logic. Science is also fallible but you are more likely to get closer to the actuality of a thing.

Can we say that the reason is used and must be used in the phenomena where experiments are not possible and one has to rely simply on the experiences?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I don't know what you mean be by truthful experiences. An experience is an experience and is subject to personal interpretation.
If one is so sure about one's experience, that though one cannot show it to others for verifying the same but one has not doubt in it whatsoever.

Regards
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
If one is so sure about one's experience, that though one cannot show it to others for verifying the same but one has not doubt in it whatsoever.

Regards

Not sure I understand your post......the sentence is rather tortured.

I don't doubt that people have 'experiences" of various sorts. The question is how do you verify their interpretation of what the experience was, or was caused by? Without being able to do that, the statement "I had an experience in which god talked to me" has no more credibility than the statement "I had an experience in which I saw a pink unicorn"
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Not sure I understand your post......the sentence is rather tortured.

I don't doubt that people have 'experiences" of various sorts. The question is how do you verify their interpretation of what the experience was, or was caused by? Without being able to do that, the statement "I had an experience in which god talked to me" has no more credibility than the statement "I had an experience in which I saw a pink unicorn"
Please repair it as one understands.
Regards
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Can we say that the reason is used and must be used in the phenomena where experiments are not possible and one has to rely simply on the experiences?
Regards

Sure, IMO. As long as one understands that such reason has, again IMO, a fairly high probability of being wrong.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Anyone can give a reason but a reason has to have logic or it is not a valid reason.
Logic* is a recent tool of philosophy, it was not there with the humans for thousands of years. Right, please?
Regards

___________
* "The history of logic deals with the study of the development of the science of valid inference (logic). Formal logics developed in ancient times in India, China, and Greece. Greek methods, particularly Aristotelian logic (or term logic) as found in the Organon, found wide application and acceptance in Western science and mathematics for millennia.[1] The Stoics, especially Chrysippus, began the development of predicate logic.

Christian and Islamic philosophers such as Boethius (died 524) and William of Ockham (died 1347) further developed Aristotle's logic in the Middle Ages, reaching a high point in the mid-fourteenth century, with Jean Buridan. The period between the fourteenth century and the beginning of the nineteenth century saw largely decline and neglect, and at least one historian of logic regards this time as barren.[2]Empirical methods ruled the day, as evidenced by Sir Francis Bacon's Novum Organon of 1620."

History of logic - Wikipedia
 

james blunt

Well-Known Member
Logic* is a recent tool of philosophy, it was not there with the humans for thousands of years. Right, please?
Regards

___________
* "The history of logic deals with the study of the development of the science of valid inference (logic). Formal logics developed in ancient times in India, China, and Greece. Greek methods, particularly Aristotelian logic (or term logic) as found in the Organon, found wide application and acceptance in Western science and mathematics for millennia.[1] The Stoics, especially Chrysippus, began the development of predicate logic.

Christian and Islamic philosophers such as Boethius (died 524) and William of Ockham (died 1347) further developed Aristotle's logic in the Middle Ages, reaching a high point in the mid-fourteenth century, with Jean Buridan. The period between the fourteenth century and the beginning of the nineteenth century saw largely decline and neglect, and at least one historian of logic regards this time as barren.[2]Empirical methods ruled the day, as evidenced by Sir Francis Bacon's Novum Organon of 1620."

History of logic - Wikipedia

Logic has only just arrived, well about a decade ago to be precise.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Reason is common sense and wisdom endowed to humans by G-d naturally to decipher meaning in the things with one's experiences with the available sources of knowledge.
Logic is to get meanings as per the standards/systems fixed by the humans, and it is not as old as the reason is with the humans since inception.
I may be wrong. Right, please?

Regards
Then I have no idea of how to recognize reason as distinct from logic.
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
Reason is common sense and wisdom endowed to humans by G-d naturally to decipher meaning in the things with one's experiences with the available sources of knowledge.
Logic is to get meanings as per the standards/systems fixed by the humans, and it is not as old as the reason is with the humans since inception.
I may be wrong. Right, please?

Regards
eh what? reasoning skills are logic to me. god in my opinion skews the ability for reasoning. Makes people jump weave their way to avoid reason. with information that has no ground based on reality.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Then I have no idea of how to recognize reason as distinct from logic.
Reason is the basic characteristic of humans endowed to them by G-d, logic is one of the tools with which we solve problems in certain fields.
Reason of itself is blind and cannot lead humans anywhere without a conjugal partner, and there are many of them. Right, please?
I could be wrong, then please correct me.

Regards
 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
Reason is the basic characteristic of humans endowed to them by G-d, logic is one of the tools with which we solve problems in certain fields.
Reason of itself is blind and cannot lead humans anywhere without a conjugal partner, and there are many of them. Right, please?
I could be wrong, then please correct me.

Regards

Prove it. Don't worry I'll wait
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Reason is the basic characteristic of humans endowed to them by G-d, logic is one of the tools with which we solve problems in certain fields.
Reason of itself is blind and cannot lead humans anywhere without a conjugal partner, and there are many of them. Right, please?
I could be wrong, then please correct me.

Regards
Prove it. Don't worry I'll wait
"I could be wrong, then please correct me."

Regards
 
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