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Science and the Bible

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the Earth at around 200BC, so it was clearly recognised at spherical by then. In fact any sailor in the ancient world would have known the surface of the sea is at least curved, equally in all directions, and might have guessed it was spherical.

The notion that some people hold, that the Earth was believed to be flat up to mediaeval times, is not correct.
But the writers of the Bible may have believed it to be flat. Even though Christians will make the claim it does describe it as a sphere. Luckily the Flat Earth verses are all rather poetic so I would not say that it explicitly says that it is flat either. That the Earth was well know to be spherical along with the fact that a better argument can be made for a Flat Earth is why I get a bit irritated when the claim that the Bible supposedly miraculously claims it was spherical before its time.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
But the writers of the Bible may have believed it to be flat. Even though Christians will make the claim it does describe it as a sphere. Luckily the Flat Earth verses are all rather poetic so I would not say that it explicitly says that it is flat either. That the Earth was well know to be spherical along with the fact that a better argument can be made for a Flat Earth is why I get a bit irritated when the claim that the Bible supposedly miraculously claims it was spherical before its time.

The writers of the Old Testament may indeed have believed that, but they were mostly writing a lot earlier than Eratosthenes.

There is not, so far as I am aware, anything in the New Testament that asserts the Earth to be flat. There is, in the story of the temptations of Christ, a passage that speaks of the devil taking him to a mountaintop and showing him the "four corners of the earth", but this, I understand, is English idiomatic translation of "extremities" or something like that. At all events the passage does not purport to tell us what the shape of the Earth is, as it is about something else entirely.

The overall lesson, surely, is that one should not try to read the bible as a science book. In this I think we agree.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
'THE BIBLE AND SCIENCE DON'T COINCIDE!'
Below are some reasons why I disagree with the statement above :)

Share thoughts - be kind.

EARTH'S SPHERICAL SHAPE
(Isaiah 40:22)“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth”

Discovery Claim: Pythagorus proposed that the Earth was round sometime around 500 B.C. though it was not accepted as a possibility until much later, and not confirmed until even later.

The verse in Isaiah was written: between 740-680 B.C. - about 240-180 years before the Greek had the thought, and declared it with boldness before anyone else was sure for centuries. Also, the translation of the Hebrew word used to describe the earth in this verse of Job ("chuwg") means, "to be made spherical" - our translations use the word 'circle' here. I underline 'made' to enhance the Hebrew emphasis on Creator God...who made it that way.)

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HYDROLOGIC CYCLE
(Ecclesiastes 1:7)“All the rivers run into the sea,Yet the sea is not full; To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again.”

(Job 36:27-29)"For He draws up drops of water, Which distill as rain from the mist, Which the clouds drop down And pour abundantly on man. Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds, The thunder from His canopy?"
Discovery Claim: 16TH Century (1501 to 1600)

This verse was written: (Ecc) between the years 971 and 931 B.C. (Job) between 1900 and 1700 B.C. --- both thousands of years prior to our understanding of this process.


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ELEMENTAL PARTICLES
Everything we see, is made up of things we can not see (particles).

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." (Hebrews 11:3 - written about 65 AD ... the elemental particles were not discovered until the 19th century (1800s) - this biblical declaration was made about 1700 years before it was realized.)

"God spoke" is how the Bible describes the universe coming into existence, a simple explanation to humans how Almighty God creates - He speaks, it is so. Energy was produced from the "sound" of God's "voice", we know sound creates waves (sound waves, hence sound particles) eventually these sound waves become light, on terms of a scale (below) interestingly enough the first WORDS God spoke were indeed, "Let there be LIGHT" ... both light and sound need time and distance to travel, in the first lines of Genesis, we can see the basic math of the physical universe come into existence. Any other theory would simply imply that something came from nothing, which is a scientific impossibility...without God. And His Word.


electromagnetic_spectrum.jpg



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IMPORTANCE OF BLOOD IN LIFE PROCESSES
(Leviticus 17:13-14)“who hunts and catches any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with dust; for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood.”



Discovery Claim: Late 19th century is when I have found more information was obtained as far as disease processes and the importance of blood, because: Until the late 19th century (1850-1900) bloodletting was a common practice in the medical field, intended to cure ailments of many kinds. In the majority of cases, the use of bloodletting was harmful to patients. Had they known "blood sustains life" as the Bible says (thousands of years before the practice of bloodletting was ceased) maybe some people might not have died from bloodletting - like our first president, George Washington.

This verse was written: between 1440 and 1400 B.C. --- over 3,000 years before we "knew" it.

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ATMOSPHERIC CIRCULATION
(Ecclesiastes 1:6)“The wind goes toward the south,And turns around to the north;The wind whirls about continually,And comes again on its circuit.”




Discovery Claim: meteorologist William Ferrell discovered them in 1856.

This verse was written: between the years 971 and 931 B.C. --- nearly 3,000 years before Mr. Ferrell's uncovering of the wind patterns.


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GRAVITATIONAL FIELD
(Job 26:7)“He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.”
Discovery Claim: Sir Isaac Newton, in 1650
This verse was written: between 1900 to 1700 B.C. (many scholars agree that Job is the oldest book in the Bible) so this was about 3500-4000 years prior to Sir Newton's apple.
For those who question why this verse represents the gravitational field, think about it - prior to the discovery of the gravitational field, theories formulated in regards to what held the earth up were not as definite as the Bible's explanation: "He hangs the earth on nothing" (which, obviously, is true - the earth IS on nothing) and Job was written thousands of years before this discovery.



Other theories include: Atlas - the Greeks believed the earth was held up by Atlas,

he held the earth on his shoulders. Hindu scriptures say a few different things


but here is a quick summary of their beliefs regarding what 'held the earth up':



"Arya (Indo-Aryan) texts repeatedly affirm that the Earth is supported by a serpent. The earths are seven in number, like 7 covers one above the other, the upper one is divided into 7 regions [ al-B. i.228 ]. There exists a serpent, Seshakhya, under the 7th lowest Earth, it has 1000 heads, so it feels no pain and bears the earths one above the other [ al-B. i.237 ]. Other texts say that the Earth is supported on a giant tortoise. Still others hold that this tortoise is in turn on top of a giant snake [ Kovoor 158 ]. Some other texts claim the Earth is held by 4 pillars, held by an elephant seated on a big tortoise [ Panda 69 ]. According to Balabhadra, the earth is in the midst of water, the lower part is immersed in water and the part above the water is round like the back of a tortoise [ al-B i.273 ]." (source:Create Websites with our Website Builder - Yahoo Small Business) ____________________________________________________________________

As we can see, the Bible had all these facts straight long before anything or anyone else ;)

Neither does about 99% of all music....
 

CLee421

Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma
The overall lesson, surely, is that one should not try to read the bible as a science book. In this I think we agree.

It's much more than that. I never said it was a "science" book. It has some knowledge relating to the earth and human body etc but that's nothing compared to the bulk of it.

Mostly it's history. Genealogies. Also poetry and songs written by kings - but even that can be classified under history in a sense.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It's much more than that. I never said it was a "science" book. It has some knowledge relating to the earth and human body etc but that's nothing compared to the bulk of it.

Mostly it's history. Genealogies. Also poetry and songs written by kings - but even that can be classified under history in a sense.
And a good dollop of myth and legend in the best known parts of the OT, notable examples being Genesis and Exodus.
 

CLee421

Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma
And a good dollop of myth and legend in the best known parts of the OT, notable examples being Genesis and Exodus.

Jews history there. They disagree. They have genealogy from Adam and I guarantee many families have kept up with that.

There are many real people named. Real locations. Real battles. Just because God is in the mix you call an entire people's history "myth" ...
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Jews history there. They disagree. They have genealogy from Adam and I guarantee many families have kept up with that.

There are many real people named. Real locations. Real battles. Just because God is in the mix you call an entire people's history "myth" ...
Nope. It's for the reasons we've all discussed ad nauseam re the creation story, the garbled nature of the flood myth and the way it is borrowed from an earlier epic, the fact there is no historical evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, and so on......

Genealogy from Adam is especially absurd. The bible doesn't even explain where Cain got his wife from or how the human race spread if not through incest.

Doubtless there is history in it, but there is a lot that demonstrably isn't.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
To say all these things about the Bible guys you are saying the nation of Israel and their written history is wrong, made up, fantasy.

I disagree. And calling me or anyone who believes the Bible poorly educated is just proof that you can only repeat what you think is right, then attack the intelligence of those who disagree with you. It's probably one of the more disgusting traits I see come out in people when they are behind the allmight my keyboard.

The Bible does contain some metaphors but the Old Testament is largely documented and comfirmed Jewish history. It also contains amazing poetry (based in truth) and yes, these and more facts that are relevant or applicable to life.
When it comes to sciences many creationist and intelligent design proponents are in fact poorly educated in that regard. Can't sugar-coat that kind of assessment. Intentional or unintentional ignorance? It's just there.

You know there are smart people around who believe in amazingly ridiculous things. A mystery of life I suppose as to why but I can get an idea because I used to be a theist. None of it has to do with accuracy in science or even common sense at times.
 

CLee421

Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma
Faith and miracles look like foolishness to those who don't believe. That's just something we will live with.

Educated down a different path than you doesn't mean uneducated.
 

CLee421

Bible believing-Face painting-Musical Momma
Curious. Why doesn't religion change with new information coming to the surface?

What new information that can be added to or change my faith has surfaced?

Also. I'm not religious. I have a relationship with God, and believe things I never thought I would, but nothing I do is done "religiously" but freely.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
But the writers of the Bible may have believed it to be flat. Even though Christians will make the claim it does describe it as a sphere. Luckily the Flat Earth verses are all rather poetic so I would not say that it explicitly says that it is flat either. That the Earth was well know to be spherical along with the fact that a better argument can be made for a Flat Earth is why I get a bit irritated when the claim that the Bible supposedly miraculously claims it was spherical before its time.
I understand that G-d did not author Bible OT and or NT. It is pointless, therefore, to relate it to Science, it cannot legitimately claim it. Right, please?

Regards
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Why reject the lunar landings? Or course a Flat Earth belief is only a small step away from creationism. They are both irrational beliefs where one must reject all sciences.
Disagree. For one thing at least two astronauts, Charlie Duke, and the late Jim Irwin. who who walked on the moon were born again Christians. Both of these Christians wrote books in which they shared their testimonies and their experiences. Here are a couple of link from AIG refuting a flat earth. I can imagine how much you appreciate AIG.

Is the Earth Flat?

Does the Bible Teach that the Earth is Flat?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Disagree. For one thing at least two astronauts, Charlie Duke, and the late Jim Irwin. who who walked on the moon were born again Christians. Both of these Christians wrote books in which they shared their testimonies and their experiences. Here are a couple of link from AIG refuting a flat earth. I can imagine how much you appreciate AIG.

Is the Earth Flat?

Does the Bible Teach that the Earth is Flat?
AiG!? Are the you kidding me? That is the same as you openly admitting that you are wrong.

Try again.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
AiG!? Are the you kidding me? That is the same as you openly admitting that you are wrong.

Try again.
I don't think referencing AIG is an admission of being wrong, they are good articles. But I am kind of kidding in posting them for you, just couldn't resist. What am I wrong about? Are you saying the earth is flat?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't think referencing AIG is an admission of being wrong, they are good articles. But I am kind of kidding in posting them for you, just couldn't resist. What am I wrong about? Are you saying the earth is flat?

That is because you probably have no clue as to how dishonest that site is.

No, I am not saying that the Earth is flat, but a good case can be made that the Bible makes that claim.
 
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