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Contradictions Challenge

Earthling

David Henson
I will answer your claims of Biblical contradictions. One at a time per poster, please. Once I address your contradiction you can add another, but I'm only one person so please. 1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I will answer your claims of Biblical contradictions. One at a time per poster, please. Once I address your contradiction you can add another, but I'm only one person so please. 1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!

In Exodus 9:3 God set a plague killing all of Egypt's horses.
Exodus 14:9 The Egyptians overtook Moses on horseback.

So where did these horses come from?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I will answer your claims of Biblical contradictions. One at a time per poster, please. Once I address your contradiction you can add another, but I'm only one person so please. 1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!

Works and deeds vs faith and grace

1. Works

Romans 2:6

5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each oneaccording to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.…

Ecc 12:14

…13When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. 14For God will bring everydeed into judgment, along with every hidden thing,whether good or evil.


Isaiah 57:12 (deeds-rightous works) compared to deeds as a means of fsith @BilliardsBall

Matthew 16:27 and more: Scripture on deeds

2. Faith and grace

through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake, Romans 1:5
Obedience to god (which is contrary to the idea of saving grace without ones works [how I read it is works for god isnt rightous works and because its for god, through them be saved)

But

Luke 7:50 says:
And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace

(So does this mean faith only, no doing anything for god from self?)

John 5:24 it says
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

(Yet, one is judged based on one's deeds not by ones faith (above))

3. I know all the answers based on my experience, study, and reasing scripture but because its not aola scriptura, Id like to hear another point of view.


A. If god says he will judge by ones deeds, what does it mean to be saved by faith only when deeds are weighed for salvation while faith is weighed by one's decision to follow and act that salvation? (Are you judged by faith or deeds? )

B. Grace is unmerited favor

Epphesians 2:8-9; romans 11:6

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast

Righteous works (ego) or works for god (devotion)?

Mathew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

(But then one still must do something?) What exactly can be done without call it works?

James 1:22 here is a good one (@BilliardsBall )
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

(This is the works I mean)

Contradiction? Yet, it says faith only to savs

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. (Romans 3:28)

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone

But

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I honestly think all this is in context

Works for self: righteous and of the law which is not the same as works for god

Anyway,

3. Can you simplify in your view OP works in relation to god and man? Or is it just the word that gives conflicting messages?

4. If god saved the word, and whomever believes in christ is saved, then christ didnt die for all but a selective few. If he is the savior of jew ans gentil why would he have stipulations over his own creation and then say he loves all? Romans 5:8 (or all just means who believes?)

Proverbs 8:13 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Children and infant cant love god until they are aware of him i their heart not by knowledge. All have sined.

5. How does infant gets a way out when they are born of inherited sin?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Here's one I plucked out of hundreds portrayed visually on this (really cool) site: CLICK HERE

Ezekiel 39:10
So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down [any] out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Exodus 20:15
Thou shalt not steal.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
In Exodus 9:3 God set a plague killing all of Egypt's horses.
Exodus 14:9 The Egyptians overtook Moses on horseback.

So where did these horses come from?

Sorry @RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha if I am stealing your thunder, but I too am a bit of a detective when it comes to apparent contradictions. :D

Just a guess.....but Pharaoh had the resources to aquire horses from neighbouring nations...? This was the first of the 10 plagues, and there is no timeframe that I am aware of, so there was plenty of time for him to restock his horses.

If the Bible doesn't tell us specifically, all we can do is deduce how the situation may have played out. Horses were the mainstay of the Egyptian army as their chariots were useless without them, so was anything preventing Pharaoh from getting horses from outside of Egyptian territory? They had to come from somewhere.....:shrug:
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I will answer your claims of Biblical contradictions. One at a time per poster, please. Once I address your contradiction you can add another, but I'm only one person so please. 1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!
And you know... the way your OP reads is kind of strange. You end with this:
1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!
So... we should post one at a time... unless we're afraid of the truth? Meaning... if we're afraid of the truth, we should post multiples at a time?
 

Earthling

David Henson
And you know... the way your OP reads is kind of strange. You end with this:

So... we should post one at a time... unless we're afraid of the truth? Meaning... if we're afraid of the truth, we should post multiples at a time?

I'm sorry. I meant to say pedantic.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. I meant to say pedantic.
Right. So... any answer to my actual on-topic post of a contradiction? I've included it below again (you know, just for easy reference):
Ezekiel 39:10
So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down [any] out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Exodus 20:15
Thou shalt not steal.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Here's one I plucked out of hundreds portrayed visually on this (really cool) site: CLICK HERE

Ezekiel 39:10
So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down [any] out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Exodus 20:15
Thou shalt not steal.

Makes me wonder if some people have nothing better to do than scour scripture searching for "contradictions". :rolleyes:

Context is of course, a very important aspect of any interpretation of scripture. Taken out of context, they can be given a completely different, and incorrect slant.

This is a classic example.....

Ezekiel 39:7-10....
And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is coming and it will be brought about, declares the Lord God. That is the day of which I have spoken. “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and make fires of the weapons and burn them, shields and bucklers, bow and arrows, clubs and spears; and they will make fires of them for seven years, so that they will not need to take wood out of the field or cut down any out of the forests, for they will make their fires of the weapons. They will seize the spoil of those who despoiled them, and plunder those who plundered them, declares the Lord God."

Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 39:7-10 - English Standard Version

This was a warning to the enemies of God's people and the actions of Israel were a direct command from God. To take plunder or spoil, was a right of conquest. They had God's permission, so there was no violation of the law.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder if some people have nothing better to do than scour scripture searching for "contradictions". :rolleyes:

Context is of course, a very important aspect of any interpretation of scripture. Taken out of context, they can be given a completely different, and incorrect slant.

This is a classic example.....

Ezekiel 39:7-10....
And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is coming and it will be brought about, declares the Lord God. That is the day of which I have spoken. “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and make fires of the weapons and burn them, shields and bucklers, bow and arrows, clubs and spears; and they will make fires of them for seven years, so that they will not need to take wood out of the field or cut down any out of the forests, for they will make their fires of the weapons. They will seize the spoil of those who despoiled them, and plunder those who plundered them, declares the Lord God."

Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 39:7-10 - English Standard Version

This was a warning to the enemies of God's people and the actions of Israel were a direct command from God. To take plunder or spoil, was a right of conquest. They had God's permission, so there was no violation of the law.

I figured the response would be something like that. If God were to speak clearly in your mind tomorrow and tell you that it was okay to steal from someone who had stolen from you, would you go do it without thinking twice?
 

Earthling

David Henson
Right. So... any answer to my actual on-topic post of a contradiction? I've included it below again (you know, just for easy reference):

Always check various translations. Ezekiel 39:10 in my favorite translation reads: "And they will not carry sticks of wood from the field, nor will they gather firewood out of the forests, for with the armor they will light fires.’ “‘And they will certainly make spoil of those who had been making spoil of them, and plunder those who had been plundering them,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."

This prophecy is talking about the time when God brings about his kingdom by destroying the world, i.e. the current system of things where Satan and mankind rule. The evil will be destroyed and the meek who inherit the earth will have their mess to clean up, in effect. Those people, the evildoers, will be destroyed. (Ezekiel 39:11-13) In the aforementioned translation: "And it must occur in that day that I shall give to Gog a place there, a burial place in Israel, the valley of those passing through on the east of the sea, and it will be stopping up those passing through. And there they will have to bury Gog and all his crowd, and they will be certain to call [it] the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 12 And those of the house of Israel will have to bury them for the purpose of cleansing the land, for seven months. 13 And all the people of the land will have to do the burying, and it will certainly become for them a matter of fame in the day that I glorify myself,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."

Exodus 20:15 applies to another time and place, and simply telling the people of ancient Israel not to steal.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I will answer your claims of Biblical contradictions. One at a time per poster, please. Once I address your contradiction you can add another, but I'm only one person so please. 1 at a time. Unless, of course, you are afraid of the truth!
The contradictions of Matthew and Luke regarding the genealogy of Jesus.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Always check various translations. Ezekiel 39:10 in my favorite translation reads: "And they will not carry sticks of wood from the field, nor will they gather firewood out of the forests, for with the armor they will light fires.’ “‘And they will certainly make spoil of those who had been making spoil of them, and plunder those who had been plundering them,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."

This prophecy is talking about the time when God brings about his kingdom by destroying the world, i.e. the current system of things where Satan and mankind rule. The evil will be destroyed and the meek who inherit the earth will have their mess to clean up, in effect. Those people, the evildoers, will be destroyed. (Ezekiel 39:11-13) In the aforementioned translation: "And it must occur in that day that I shall give to Gog a place there, a burial place in Israel, the valley of those passing through on the east of the sea, and it will be stopping up those passing through. And there they will have to bury Gog and all his crowd, and they will be certain to call [it] the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 12 And those of the house of Israel will have to bury them for the purpose of cleansing the land, for seven months. 13 And all the people of the land will have to do the burying, and it will certainly become for them a matter of fame in the day that I glorify myself,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."

Exodus 20:15 applies to another time and place, and simply telling the people of ancient Israel not to steal.
Regardless what time, what place, what prophecy, this displays a few things:

1. That God's supposed "objective" view on morality is something He himself can play fast and loose with.
2. That God defines (and can redefine) what is "moral" as He chooses - it is not something "universal", but rather it is what God says it is. In which case we're just expected to dance to His beat, and watch for any changes in tempo.
3. That God is allowed to deem someone (even if only temporarily) as "above the law." Can you imagine if a contemporary authority figure were to designate someone as being 100% above the law, and then fortold and supported that this person go and do something unlawful?

In the end, all you have are excuses. "You have to look at the context." or "My translation says 'plunder' - and plunder isn't the same as stealing, right (hyuk hyuk)?" or "God told them to do it, so it's okay."

Oh, and @Deeje - I would even go so far as to say that the act of stealing from someone who has stolen from you ISN'T EVEN HALF AS BAD as that act of a supposed authority figure (God in this case) telling a people that they should or can go and do so with full immunity.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I figured the response would be something like that. If God were to speak clearly in your mind tomorrow and tell you that it was okay to steal from someone who had stolen from you, would you go do it without thinking twice?

Do you understand the rules of engagement in matters of conquest? "To the victor go the spoils"......it was the time when this was an expectation, not a violation of any law. If God destroys the wicked of this world and then tells me I can help myself to his possessions (as he will never need them again) then yes! I will say thanks very much.
happy0105.gif
I would see that as his gift to me.

Oh, and @Deeje - I would even go so far as to say that the act of stealing from someone who has stolen from you ISN'T EVEN HALF AS BAD as that act of a supposed authority figure (God in this case) telling a people that they should or can go and do so with full immunity.

Rules of engagement.....do you view it as murder when enemies are killed in a war? If not, why not?
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
In the end, all you have are excuses. "You have to look at the context." or "My translation says 'plunder' - and plunder isn't the same as stealing, right (hyuk hyuk)?" or "God told them to do it, so it's okay."

Do you know the difference between excuses and reasons? Apparently not.
God does not need excuses as he can do as he pleases. Your translation says "plunder"....so, what is plunder? It is 'goods acquired as a result of war or civil unrest'. If the law said you could plunder the goods of an enemy, it would not be an illegal act.
If God said you can plunder goods from those who plundered from you....isn't that just taking your own stuff back?...maybe with interest? :shrug:
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There's contradictions in pretty much all books written before our time. We cant expect godly voice makes perfect grammar, translation, and culture based on our logic of gods than theirs. Even The Dharma has contradictions, but unlike christians and online atheists, we dont see many others fuss about it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The contradictions of Matthew and Luke regarding the genealogy of Jesus.

"The difference in nearly all the names in Luke’s genealogy of Jesus as compared with Matthew’s is quickly resolved in the fact that Luke traced the line through David’s son Nathan, instead of Solomon as did Matthew. (Luke 3:31; Mt 1:6, 7)

Luke evidently follows the ancestry of Mary, thus showing Jesus’ natural descent from David, while Matthew shows Jesus’ legal right to the throne of David by descent from Solomon through Joseph, who was legally Jesus’ father.

Both Matthew and Luke signify that Joseph was not Jesus’ actual father but only his adoptive father, giving him legal right. Matthew departs from the style used throughout his genealogy when he comes to Jesus, saying: “Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.” (Matthew 1:16) Notice that he does not say ‘Joseph became father to Jesus’ but that he was “the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born.” Luke is even more pointed when, after showing earlier that Jesus was actually the Son of God by Mary (Luke 1:32-35), he says: “Jesus . . . being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of Heli.”—Luke 3:23.

The lists made by both Matthew and Luke were comprised of names publicly recognized by the Jews of that time as authentic. The scribes and Pharisees as well as the Sadducees were bitter enemies of Christianity, and they would have used any possible argument to discredit Jesus, but it is noteworthy that they never challenged these genealogies. If either Matthew’s or Luke’s genealogy of Jesus had been in error, what an opportunity it would have been for these opponents to prove it then and there! For until 70 C.E. they evidently had ready access to the public genealogical registers and the Scriptures." (italics and color mine)

Genealogy of Jesus Christ — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 
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