Why Does God Permit Evil?

[nPeace]

NPeace, I do not think God is above us and creates our reality. That would be predestination. Instead God is by our side and has his own experience of reality. When I pray and ask for something I usually do not get much or anything at all. But when I pray to communicate with the God who is besides me and who also wants to communicate, then things get in motion. Making God too big leads to disappointment. God is more like a little bird than a powerful giant. Of course that's just my perspective.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

[nPeace]

Why are you blaming this on God?
I don't.

The Father in my story never even came out of the room. He never said anything. He certainly didn't express any favoritism.
The favoritism was entirely a (not too credible) claim from the siblings. Nothing to do with Father.
Tom

I haven't said anything to you about God.
The father in your story has a favoritism problem.
If the father of your story opens the door to his other children, but closes it to one of his children, he is showing favoritism... unless I am missing some facts - like, is the son being punished, are there particular rules the father set, that the other children followed, but the son did not.

I get the feeling you are drawing a comparison.
Do you have in mind God choosing the Jews as his people, and people of the nations coming in through them?
Do you have in mind Jesus and his disciples being the means of imparting knowledge that leads to the Father?
Are you making a comparison of God being in heaven, unseen to his subjects?

Right now there are too many possible comparisons for me to guess which you have in mind.
If you have given the full story, go ahead and state the comparison - let's see if it fits.

 

[nPeace]

Of course, that is a theological question at it doesn't specifically say why. Here is my two cents worth...

1) Love must have a choice for one to be able to make a decision. On a very simplistic view... how can one say "I love pizza" if pizza is the only thing one has ever tasted? Thus, a choice was given to man. Tree of Life - love God, Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - love another.
2) In as much as God gave dominion to man, to not be a liar, by His own decree gave the authority to man as to what happens. \ He allowed man to have self determination, to choose good or evil. In essence if He didn't allow it, we would basically be puppets on a string and He would also be a liar since He had already said that Mankind had the dominion.

At least that is my perspective at this time.

Thanks for the two cents. To me, it's like the widow's mite - of high value.
Looking at your post it seems to me, you have made a very good point that from a Biblical perspective, seems useful to the discussion (Not saying that the others aren't useful - they all are, and very much appreciated), but this seems a valid point from the scriptures.

So, basically, what I understand from this - in a nutshell - is that man was given free choice, and the consequences of his choice(s), would be allowed to run the course.
If I got you wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

So basically, God allowed what would develop (sorry to repeat, but this is exciting ) through his creation - not that he wanted it, but at the same time, neither did he want robots that he could control their every step (Move an arm here - "No don't touch that!" Move a foot here - "No you ain't stepping there.") He told them what to do, but allowed them to decide if they would do it.

Man, this is fascinating stuff! That makes so much sense!
Thanks man.

So that tells us that God did not bring about the evil. He didn't start it. He allowed it... but wait, what about now? What is he doing about it now? All these centuries have gone by with miserable suffering and atrocities... Why doesn't he end it already?

Don't mind me. He He.
I'm just speaking from the perspective of the billions that want it to end - like yesterday.

 

[columbus]

I haven't said anything to you about God.

Seriously?
You said all that you have, and none of it was about God?


Seriously?!?

How Christian of you.

Tom

 

[nPeace]

Seriously?
You said all that you have, and none of it was about God?


Seriously?!?

How Christian of you.

Tom

I mean in the post B... In the post.

 

[InChrist]

What does the Bible have to say on this subject?

Some say if God existed, he would put an end to the suffering we see in the world.
Others say that there is evidence God exists, and there is a reason why God permits suffering.
I want to get some input on the Biblical view on why the God of the Bible would allow evil and suffering.
Please try to provide scripture to support what you say, since this is supposed to present what the Bible says on the topic.

God allows evil, for the time being, because God is Love (1 John 4:8) and He created humans in His image to freely participate with Himself in a loving relationship. The ability to truly love requires freedom to respond to God's love and goodness or reject and follow one's own self-centered evil desires. At present God allows wrong and evil choices to occur because He is patient with us and so that we can see the negative consequences and hopefully choose to seek Him for change. At the end of the age evil will be dealt with. (Matthew 13:37-43).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!
Why does God allow evil?

 

[Etritonakin]

Thanks. That interesting. When you say God what do you mean exactly?

God did not accidentally allow Satan to interact with man in Eden -and since.

God brought up the subject of Job's righteousness to Satan -making a point to Satan even as he allowed him to do things to Job to make a point to him.

God said he would "plead with all flesh by the sword".

Many other examples show that God is not struggling to keep evil from everyone, but to allow them to experience evil in order to eventually utterly reject it.

From Adam until the return of Christ will be roughly six thousand years (not the age of the earth), and there will only be one more attempt at war after the seventh thousand years.

So -apart from a few exceptions -each person experiences this life for about 120 years or less -and mankind experiences it as a whole for about 6,000 years.
After that, those who are willing to refrain from evil will go on -and those unwilling will be separated and made willing if possible -potentially destroyed if not.

Then it will be finished -things will be very different -and we can inherit the earth and the whole creation -even "the heavens" which were "formed to be inhabited"

The following describes essentially WWIII/"great tribulation" and the following "great and terrible day of the Lord" -and explains the purpose for it all....
Isaiah 13:

4The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

 

[nPeace]

God allows evil, for the time being, because God is Love (1 John 4:8) and He created humans in His image to freely participate with Himself in a loving relationship. The ability to truly love requires freedom to respond to God's love and goodness or reject and follow one's own self-centered evil desires. At present God allows wrong and evil choices to occur because He is patient with us and so that we can see the negative consequences and hopefully choose to seek Him for change. At the end of the age evil will be dealt with. (Matthew 13:37-43).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!
Why does God allow evil?

I love this.
Thank you very much.
This actually cements the previous point made by KenS, about man given free choice.
So basically it boils down to choice - the choice to love the creator and the laws and standards he set - based on unhindered free will.

So deliberately taking fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, they made their choice to not obey God - to do their own thing.... sort of like what many do today.

I read the info in the link.
I find these points quite reasonable, fair and logical.
Just one problem with number three though. why would God need to destroy all when he could simply.... Uh. Never mind. I see your point - that is if he acted before the time he allows man opportunity to mend his ways, and seek righteousness.
Ahhh. That explains the love and patient part...

Hmmm Nice. Very nice, Makes absolute sense. It does highlight the great wisdom of God too. ...and they say primatives wrote this. Ha!
Even if they were though, a brilliant mind was obviously behind. In fact the harmony of scripture testifies to that.

Thanks very much for this post.
I think I am satifsied with the answer given. Obviously additions are welcomed.

Summary.
Why does God Permit Suffering?
The Bible answers:
Why Does God Permit Evil?
Why Does God Permit Evil?

 

[nPeace]

God did not accidentally allow Satan to interact with man in Eden -and since.

God brought up the subject of Job's righteousness to Satan -making a point to Satan even as he allowed him to do things to Job to make a point to him.

God said he would "plead with all flesh by the sword".

Many other examples show that God is not struggling to keep evil from everyone, but to allow them to experience evil in order to eventually utterly reject it.

From Adam until the return of Christ will be roughly six thousand years (not the age of the earth), and there will only be one more attempt at war after the seventh thousand years.

So -apart from a few exceptions -each person experiences this life for about 120 years or less -and mankind experiences it as a whole for about 6,000 years.
After that, those who are willing to refrain from evil will go on -and those unwilling will be separated and made willing if possible -potentially destroyed if not.

Then it will be finished -things will be very different -and we can inherit the earth and the whole creation -even "the heavens" which were "formed to be inhabited"

The following describes essentially WWIII/"great tribulation" and the following "great and terrible day of the Lord" -and explains the purpose for it all....
Isaiah 13:

4The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[74x12]

Glad you could share.
It is a fact that suffering or difficult challenges can help us build fine qualities. That in itself doesn't tell us how God feels about suffering.
It is noteworthy though, that suffering has affected people negatively - even breaking them.

That's true. But I'm not sure by what you mean that it breaks them. Do you mean physically or spiritually? The battle is real. Not just God is real but satan is real and wars have real casualties. There is hope in the resurrection if someone is physically/mentally broken or destroyed.

Do you believe then that suffering is of God - It was here from the beginning, and will always be?
If God allows evil in order that we would be good, why is there more evil than good, and why does evil get worst each generation? As is prophecy in scriptures - things go from bad to worst.

You melt gold with heat to purify it and then you make something out of it. In other words, evil has a purpose in the creation phase, but not in the finished creation. God is not finished with creation yet. God rested on the 7th day from all His work. God's rest is yet to come which will be in a finished creation. The new Jerusalem. There will be no more suffering in it.

However the good deeds that people (who are resurrected into new life) have done will last with them and with everyone forever. Goodness will be eternally exalted because evil once existed. But evil has an appointed end.

 

[nPeace]

That's true. But I'm not sure by what you mean that it breaks them. Do you mean physically or spiritually? The battle is real. Not just God is real but satan is real and wars have real casualties. There is hope in the resurrection if someone is physically/mentally broken or destroyed.

You melt gold with heat to purify it and then you make something out of it. In other words, evil has a purpose in the creation phase, but not in the finished creation. God is not finished with creation yet. God rested on the 7th day from all His work. God's rest is yet to come which will be in a finished creation. The new Jerusalem. There will be no more suffering in it.

However the good deeds that people (who are resurrected into new life) have done will last with them and with everyone forever. Goodness will be eternally exalted because evil once existed. But evil has an appointed end.

I meant for example, you know that many children face bullying at an early age - mostly at school. Some suffer so greatly - it affected their mental and physical health. Some felt the need to end their life. The same in the case of those who face sexual abuse.
We know children are vulnerable, and some perhaps hadn't developed inner strength to deal with their suffering. So it broke them, both mentally, and physically.

Yes. The illustration of refined gold nicely put in scripture - in reference to God's people. They received discipline from their father that would benefit them in the long run, if they accepted the discipline and were molded by it.
For people of the nations, it's much more difficult.

It is comforting to know that suffering will end, and never ever recur again.
As you guys rightly indicated,

Goodness will be eternally exalted because evil once existed.

God would have once and for all time shown that he alone has the right to rule, and decide what is good and bad. Choosing to live independent of God only leads to disaster.
So after all comes to a completion after the millennium, there will be eternal peace and

the good deeds that people (who are resurrected into new life) have done will last with them and with everyone forever.

Thanks for adding.

 

[columbus]

The father in your story has a favoritism problem.

No He doesn't. He doesn't do anything at all.
It's the siblings who have a favoritism problem. They believe that they are The Father's favorites, and claim to speak for Him.

If the father of your story opens the door to his other children, but closes it to one of his children, he is showing favoritism... unless I am missing some facts - like, is the son being punished, are there particular rules the father set, that the other children followed, but the son did not.

The Father never says or does anything in the story. It's only siblings, self appointed spokesmen for God, who say and do anything.
In my story, "siblings" represent prophets. I am using the term prophet very loosely here, I mean everyone who claims to speak for God. From Samuel and Saul of Tarsus, Muhammad and the Popes, to Billy Graham and several RF members.
Lots of people claim to know more about the ineffable Creator than I do. That's the favoritism problem. Not The Father playing favorites, rather, it's limited humans claiming to be His favorites.

Are you making a comparison of God being in heaven, unseen to his subjects?

I am making a comparison between the Omnimax Creator that Abrahamic religionists often describe out of one side of their mouths, and the limited creature that they usually describe out of the other side.
Tom

 

[74x12]

I meant for example, you know that many children face bullying at an early age - mostly at school. Some suffer so greatly - it affected their mental and physical health. Some felt the need to end their life. The same in the case of those who face sexual abuse.
We know children are vulnerable, and some perhaps hadn't developed inner strength to deal with their suffering. So it broke them, both mentally, and physically.

Good point. In the case of child abuse we don't have to wonder. Jesus said in so many words that it's impossible to completely stop this from happening. (Luke 17:1) And we can surmise it's not God's perfect will that it does happen from Matthew 18:10-14. God hates it.

It is satan's will; he can destroy their whole lives from an early age. They'll be messed up for life. This includes some children experiencing extreme abuse who create split personalities to deal with the trauma. But God is able to intervene and fix them. I suggest that prayer is good to do on their behalf. Not just the current victims but people who were victimized and are now grown but still messed up inside.

God would have once and for all time shown that he alone has the right to rule, and decide what is good and bad. Choosing to live independent of God only leads to disaster.
So after all comes to a completion after the millennium, there will be eternal peace and

Yes, God will not just decide I think, but actually prove what is good and bad. The evil that currently exists is serving that purpose so that every argument can be countered. God has basically put His own ways on trial and satan as a kind of prosecuting attorney is trying to find out all it's flaws but he cannot find any. (Job 1:9)

 

[Etritonakin]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

It sounds harsh, but if you compare it to what would happen if we were allowed to continue on our own, it is very merciful.
The best part is that once we have learned, all harm will be healed -and it says the former things will not be remembered or be brought to mind.

Isaiah 65:17For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. 18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create.......

 

[Kenny]

Thanks for the two cents. To me, it's like the widow's mite - of high value.
Looking at your post it seems to me, you have made a very good point that from a Biblical perspective, seems useful to the discussion (Not saying that the others aren't useful - they all are, and very much appreciated), but this seems a valid point from the scriptures.

So, basically, what I understand from this - in a nutshell - is that man was given free choice, and the consequences of his choice(s), would be allowed to run the course.
If I got you wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.

So basically, God allowed what would develop (sorry to repeat, but this is exciting ) through his creation - not that he wanted it, but at the same time, neither did he want robots that he could control their every step (Move an arm here - "No don't touch that!" Move a foot here - "No you ain't stepping there.") He told them what to do, but allowed them to decide if they would do it.

Man, this is fascinating stuff! That makes so much sense!
Thanks man.

Thanks for the compliment... yes, you said it well

So that tells us that God did not bring about the evil. He didn't start it. He allowed it... but wait, what about now? What is he doing about it now? All these centuries have gone by with miserable suffering and atrocities... Why doesn't he end it already?

That's a great question and not sure I have the answer. Of course, I'm not God so I don't have all the answers!

I know there comes a time, when Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire, when it will cease. But why not now? There certainly are other questions I have that I just might have to wait till I get to Heaven to ask Jesus. I also remember that even after the thousand years of peace spoken of in Revelation, it is said that Satan is released again for a season. Is it back to choice and "who do you really love when there is a choice"?

In my view, we have different perspectives than God. (Obviously). Take time, for an instant. Is our chronological time the same as God's? Or in the light of "a day is as a thousand years", is that the time difference between God's eternity and man's mortality? So, perhaps, for God it is only a few days and not so long? Who knows.

But I think we are still back to the basics of love and choice. In the Christian perspective, Jesus gave back to mankind the authority that Adam had and then He said "Go and preach this good news of forgiveness and restoration to God's gift of dominion" (The Kingdom).

So, in my limited view, God is still seeking those who will love Him is spirit and in truth.

Don't mind me. He He.
I'm just speaking from the perspective of the billions that want it to end - like yesterday.

And I'm with you!!

 

[loverofhumanity]

What does the Bible have to say on this subject?

Some say if God existed, he would put an end to the suffering we see in the world.
Others say that there is evidence God exists, and there is a reason why God permits suffering.
I want to get some input on the Biblical view on why the God of the Bible would allow evil and suffering.
Please try to provide scripture to support what you say, since this is supposed to present what the Bible says on the topic.

God doesn’t permit evil, we permit it through our own choices.

Read the Bible and you can see we are encouraged to be virtuous and good but we choose to act otherwise. We are responsible for our own choices/deeds and their consequences not God.

That’s why someone who commits a crime and blames it on God is never upheld by a court of law because it’s a choice.

Humanity must choose good if it is to overcome evil. Choosing God’s ways would never have brought upon us the society we have now.

We’ve made our bed and we are the ones who now have to sleep in it"

It’s a cop out and a cowards way to blame someone else for what is clearly our own misdeeds. It’s like I commit a crime then try to blame it on someone else.

Where are the people clamoring for virtue? For world peace? People unitedly have the power to change the world why don’t they instead of just complaining and blaming someone else?

All over the world people marched for same sex marriage and got it. But where are the people marching for an rend to the war in Syria or an end to world poverty?

Just being passive and complaining won’t make evil go away. We have to work for peace all of us and educate all humanity in virtues and then we will see evil disappear.

But doing nothing and just wringing our hands and complaining won’t change anything.

Just wishing won’t bring world peace. We have to be proactive and work hard for reconciliation and to break down barriers between religions, races and nations.

If we just do nothing but complain evil won’t go away because God endowed us with the ability to create a beautiful world and we are doing nothing but sitting on our hands complaining that God won’t do it for us.

It’s all up to us all.

 

[Michael1981]

God doesn’t permit evil, we permit it through our own choices.

Read the Bible and you can see we are encouraged to be virtuous and good but we choose to act otherwise. We are responsible for our own choices/deeds and their consequences not God.

You say several incorrect things, according to the Scriptures you are referring to. God doesn't just permit evil, He created evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7 AKJV)

Look at the book of Job, where God specifically permits Satan to bring calamity upon Job. The buck stops with Him.

It’s a cop out and a cowards way to blame someone else for what is clearly our own misdeeds. It’s like I commit a crime then try to blame it on someone else.

Where are the people clamoring for virtue? For world peace? People unitedly have the power to change the world why don’t they instead of just complaining and blaming someone else?

All over the world people marched for same sex marriage and got it. But where are the people marching for an rend to the war in Syria or an end to world poverty

You say some true things here, and you would sound reasonable if not for the fact that there are plenty of people clamoring for things like virtue, world peace, and an end to conflicts all over the world.

Yes, we all need to take responsibility for our actions, but the only way to do that is to turn to Jesus Christ in repentance. Nothing else will work; your wishful thinking and reliance on corrupt men (that being all of us) won't help at all. Humanism is worthless, and has proven itself to be so over and over again.

It’s all up to us all.

Your folly is encapsulated completely in this one sentence. God is omnipotent, but you make him impotent. He is fully in control, and always has been. Evil is serving a purpose, and when that purpose has been fulfilled, the Lord will put an end to evil:

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4)

This paper covers the purpose of evil:

https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/purpose-of-evil.htm

 

[nPeace]

No He doesn't. He doesn't do anything at all.
It's the siblings who have a favoritism problem. They believe that they are The Father's favorites, and claim to speak for Him.


The Father never says or does anything in the story. It's only siblings, self appointed spokesmen for God, who say and do anything.
In my story, "siblings" represent prophets. I am using the term prophet very loosely here, I mean everyone who claims to speak for God. From Samuel and Saul of Tarsus, Muhammad and the Popes, to Billy Graham and several RF members.
Lots of people claim to know more about the ineffable Creator than I do. That's the favoritism problem. Not The Father playing favorites, rather, it's limited humans claiming to be His favorites.


I am making a comparison between the Omnimax Creator that Abrahamic religionists often describe out of one side of their mouths, and the limited creature that they usually describe out of the other side.
Tom

Thanks for making this clear.
It makes such a big difference now.

So let me start from the beginning.
Tom, asks an important question, through what appears to be a closed that his father has seemingly chose to barricade himself behind.

He seems to get no answer, but then he hears his siblings talking a lot about thing he wants to know and has been trying to ask his father from behind the closed door.

Tom realizes that his siblings seems to have a huge array of answers, many of which are mutually exclusive. They all claim to know father better than he does, usually better than anyone else does.

However, Tom feels that his father never gave him answers as clear as the ones that his siblings claim to have gotten.

Tom seems to feel that his siblings, including those younger than him, wants to play the prince over him, by being an authority on what dad is like, and what dad wants etc.

When Tom try to tell his siblings that some of the things they are saying doesn't make sense, and that he don't think dad really said those things, his siblings give him stern reproof, and tell him what dad's plan of action is, if any fail to be good children - locked in a dark basement, where the rats and centipedes can get in.
They claim that dad gave them the authority to tell him these things, and that if he didn't listen, that would be his punishment.

Man this is deep.
I sincerely apologize for not giving it close attention in the first place. I actually just focused on the dad's action without giving much thought to the reason for the scenario.

However, I'll try to see if I can to the best of my ability get the proper scriptural perspective.
__________________________________________________
Since all the children faces the same situation - having to communicate with dad from behind a closed door, then it means that all were on the same level turf - which is fair.
Since some of Tom's younger siblings knew things that he didn't, and were saying some of the same things some of the older siblings were saying, then a question, or questions arises.
Why does Tom not know or believe the thing his older any younger siblings do?

Possible conclusions -
a) His older siblings would have had information previous to him, which as time went by, could have been (1} forgotten, (2) mixed up with their own ideas, and understanding (since what their father told them may have been things that needed careful thought, and construction - not to be taken lightly - "Okay, daddy said, A B C D. Fine. Let's go play cricket now.")
So now what his sibling know, isn't exactly what daddy said, and may even be mixed with their own ideas and understanding. That may explain why to Tom, some of it sounded a bit... uh... not too right.

b) When Tom came along, after he's now grown, he asks his dad questions, but consider:
What if at that period his father had made a decision that was slightly different to when Tom's older siblings were asking?
(1) What if dad had instructed Tom's older siblings to convey information to Tom, that would answer his questions - and Tom's siblings were a bit careless.
(2) What if dad was trying to communicate this to Tom, but he wasn't listening.
Perhaps he thought his brothers were good-for-nothing annoying brats, so he paid littlecattention to them?
Perhaps he closed his mind to what his father was saying, for one reason or other - maybe thinking that his father wasn't being fair to have a door between them, or that his father was too tolerant, and should punish his older siblings for being so disgusting. Or many other reasons.

c} Tom could have reached a point of dissatisfaction, and perhaps even bitterness - having a little resentment towards his older siblings, and even his father, so that as his younger siblings came along, and was asking daddy questions, and listening to their older siblings, Tom's interest had waned, and he probably had given up trying. Everything seemed confusing.
By then the situation may have changed again, the father may have noticed that of all the children there was this one that would usually keep returning and asking, even when the others just wanted to play. This one, the father noticed would not only ask, but try their best to do, what the father wanted.
So the father was happy to tell the others that, let call him Jack, would help them understand what he meant and what he wanted. Not that he stopped communicating with them and answerng them.
So when younger siblings came along, Jack wasted no time in communicating daddy's instructions, and when they asked daddy they found that Jack seemed to be spot on.

What about Tom?
Well at this time, Tom is in total confusion. He sees his siblings bickering about what dad said, and what dad will and will not do. The older siblings, obviously jealous of the younger ones because, it seems they know more than them, and that can't be. They must be the ones that understand it better.
Poor Tom.

Tom though, is not alone. You see, Tom has a sister, one year younger than Tom, and she saw it all. She became a little depressed, and deciding she wanted no part of it, just decided to do her own thing, but she still loved her father, although she felt the family was just a mess.
She keenly observed a difference in Jack, and some of the younger ones who followed his example, and she knew that this is the kind of relationship her father wanted to exist in the family.
This got her attention, and she started associating with Jack, and communicating with her father more.
She found that she really began to understand things better, and she felt happier.

Oh, and she also learned something else. Dad had said nothing about locking anyone in the basement. He spoke about cleaning out the basement, and for the life of this girl - let's call her Jane - she doesn't understand where her other siblings got the idea of dad locking them in a basement forever. Then she thought, maybe they just wanted to scare us.
All dad wants for them is to be united in love, and be one big happy family.

Jane remembers she has something to do. She never forgot Tom. After all, she grew up in the situation and knows what it's like.
So she tries to explain what she knows to Tom.
How will Tom respond.

 

[nPeace]

Thanks for the compliment... yes, you said it well


That's a great question and not sure I have the answer. Of course, I'm not God so I don't have all the answers!

I know there comes a time, when Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire, when it will cease. But why not now? There certainly are other questions I have that I just might have to wait till I get to Heaven to ask Jesus. I also remember that even after the thousand years of peace spoken of in Revelation, it is said that Satan is released again for a season. Is it back to choice and "who do you really love when there is a choice"?

In my view, we have different perspectives than God. (Obviously). Take time, for an instant. Is our chronological time the same as God's? Or in the light of "a day is as a thousand years", is that the time difference between God's eternity and man's mortality? So, perhaps, for God it is only a few days and not so long? Who knows.

But I think we are still back to the basics of love and choice. In the Christian perspective, Jesus gave back to mankind the authority that Adam had and then He said "Go and preach this good news of forgiveness and restoration to God's gift of dominion" (The Kingdom).

So, in my limited view, God is still seeking those who will love Him is spirit and in truth.



And I'm with you!!

I like your honestly.
I'm sure there is someone on these forums that can use the Bible to answer that question.

 

[nPeace]

God doesn’t permit evil, we permit it through our own choices.

Read the Bible and you can see we are encouraged to be virtuous and good but we choose to act otherwise. We are responsible for our own choices/deeds and their consequences not God.

That’s why someone who commits a crime and blames it on God is never upheld by a court of law because it’s a choice.

Humanity must choose good if it is to overcome evil. Choosing God’s ways would never have brought upon us the society we have now.

We’ve made our bed and we are the ones who now have to sleep in it"

It’s a cop out and a cowards way to blame someone else for what is clearly our own misdeeds. It’s like I commit a crime then try to blame it on someone else.

Where are the people clamoring for virtue? For world peace? People unitedly have the power to change the world why don’t they instead of just complaining and blaming someone else?

All over the world people marched for same sex marriage and got it. But where are the people marching for an rend to the war in Syria or an end to world poverty?

Just being passive and complaining won’t make evil go away. We have to work for peace all of us and educate all humanity in virtues and then we will see evil disappear.

But doing nothing and just wringing our hands and complaining won’t change anything.

Just wishing won’t bring world peace. We have to be proactive and work hard for reconciliation and to break down barriers between religions, races and nations.

If we just do nothing but complain evil won’t go away because God endowed us with the ability to create a beautiful world and we are doing nothing but sitting on our hands complaining that God won’t do it for us.

It’s all up to us all.

Thanks for chiming in.
I see how you are viewing the situation.
It's true man has a responsibility to exercise his right of choice, and make decisions for the betterment of his life.
For example, man can decide to puff on a cigar, or pipe, and choke his lungs, and the other persons around him, or he can decide not to.
In fact, he can actually decide
...not to buy the cigar in the first place...
...from the man who sells it,
...who got it from the man who manufactured it,
...because he works for the man that manages the monies made from it,
...in order to satisfy the man who demands it, in order that he can buy it to satisfy his desire to smoke it - thus making the choice to puff on a cigar, or pipe, and choke his lungs, and the other persons around him...
...and the cycle continues.

You seem optimistic about man solving his problems, and that of the whole world.
What do you propose as the solution to the above mentioned small problem?