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Biblical prophesy

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I just saw this video by Aron Ra where he goes over why the prophecies of the Bible fail:


He points out quite correctly that to be valid a prophesy must be clear and have a set date. Given enough time any "prophecy" that is vague enough will be fulfilled. Quite often more than once. Lowering Bible prophecies to the level of "you will see a red car" would make all prophecy worthless.

You can watch the video if you like, but it is not a prerequisite to discuss prophecy here.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I just saw this video by Aron Ra where he goes over why the prophecies of the Bible fail:


He points out quite correctly that to be valid a prophesy must be clear and have a set date. Given enough time any "prophecy" that is vague enough will be fulfilled. Quite often more than once. Lowering Bible prophecies to the level of "you will see a red car" would make all prophecy worthless.

You can watch the video if you like, but it is not a prerequisite to discuss prophecy here.
There is some level of your assertion that I would agree with but I think you take it too far. I don't see that a prophecy has to be literal, for one thing. And there's a problem not only of meaning but of translation. Thinking about taking things too far, it's to read into something that it does not say - projecting one's beliefs and hopes or fears into something that is very general.

My favorite example is not from the Bible but from the Quran. Many Muslims if not most utterly disagree, but some people assert that the founding of the State of Israel is a sign of the end times based on 17:104.

Khalifa And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, "Go live in this land. When the final prophecy comes to pass, we will summon you all in one group."

Yusuf Ali And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

Pickthal And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

Shakir And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

Sher Ali And after him WE said to the Children of Israel, Dwell ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days comes, WE shall bring you together out of various peoples.'

"Progressive Muslims" And We said after him to the Children of Israel: "Dwell in the land, then, when the time of the second promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd."
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There is some level of your assertion that I would agree with but I think you take it too far. I don't see that a prophecy has to be literal, for one thing. And there's a problem not only of meaning but of translation. Thinking about taking things too far, it's to read into something that it does not say - projecting one's beliefs and hopes or fears into something that is very general.

My favorite example is not from the Bible but from the Quran. Many Muslims if not most utterly disagree, but some people assert that the founding of the State of Israel is a sign of the end times based on 17:104.

Khalifa And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, "Go live in this land. When the final prophecy comes to pass, we will summon you all in one group."

Yusuf Ali And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

Pickthal And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

Shakir And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

Sher Ali And after him WE said to the Children of Israel, Dwell ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days comes, WE shall bring you together out of various peoples.'

"Progressive Muslims" And We said after him to the Children of Israel: "Dwell in the land, then, when the time of the second promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd."
Do you have link to that in English?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I just saw this video by Aron Ra where he goes over why the prophecies of the Bible fail:


He points out quite correctly that to be valid a prophesy must be clear and have a set date. Given enough time any "prophecy" that is vague enough will be fulfilled. Quite often more than once. Lowering Bible prophecies to the level of "you will see a red car" would make all prophecy worthless.

You can watch the video if you like, but it is not a prerequisite to discuss prophecy here.

This is a rather biased source ... I would say the evidence is for the opposite
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
This is a rather biased source ... I would say the evidence is for the opposite
The Super Baal face-off with Elijah was true was true
A posited debate - The Super Baal
Screen Shot 2018-05-27 at 5.36.47 PM.png
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This is a rather biased source ... I would say the evidence is for the opposite
What makes you think that he is biased? He has a strong viewpoint but he does not deny reality. What evidence do you have for any successful prophecies? And one thing one needs to keep in mind is that any vague enough prophecy without any dates is bound to be "fulfilled". Specific prophecies in the Bible fail in epic fashion. The Tyre prophesy is one of them. It was a specific prophesy about how a specific king would defeat and destroy Tyre. He failed to do so. At that point the liars for Jesus, also known as apologists, come in and try to change the interpretation of the text.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
What makes you think that he is biased? He has a strong viewpoint but he does not deny reality. What evidence do you have for any successful prophecies? And one thing one needs to keep in mind is that any vague enough prophecy without any dates is bound to be "fulfilled". Specific prophecies in the Bible fail in epic fashion. The Tyre prophesy is one of them. It was a specific prophesy about how a specific king would defeat and destroy Tyre. He failed to do so. At that point the liars for Jesus, also known as apologists, come in and try to change the interpretation of the text.

There is considerable evidence. Faith in Jesus is a leap toward the light.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
probably? like you have a hunch? I think a hunch doesn't meet the standard of saving faith


Not a hunch, an educated guess based upon experience. Which specific Daniel prophecy are you talking about. Please note the one that involves creative reinterpretation fails due to the creative interpretation of weeks of days and other such nonsense. For that reason that prophesy has had quite a few dates attached to it. That one fails without a doubt.
 
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