Ask me any bible related question!

[Hockeycowboy]

Thank you. Very interesting. 30 years ago I read the Bible. Now I read Noah part again and I'm surprised that I didn't use my brains that time "Whole earth flooded with water and covered 150 days". Very strange raindrops when temperature is -90 degrees Celsius and 2 km thick ice in antarctic. Even if God poured boiling water all the ice would not melt I think.

So Noah story not accurate makes it easy to believe all other prophecies probably also just stories. Anyway many people believed in flat earth at that time. They had no clue at all. So "all earth flooded" just meant maybe "as far as they could see it was raining". I also used to exaggerate when I was young and gullible. So would not surprise me others were as well, esp. 2000 years ago.

If Bible is so far away from the truth, then Koran probably also [maybe 10% less off-track; being younger]. And Hindu scriptures also. All scriptures probable. Even science still not 100% sure about all stuff, and keeps big margins. Internet for sure is full of "fake data". So I better stick to Advaita Self-Enquiry. "Who Am I" and stop gathering all Data about scriptures that is proven false some time later.

Thanks @Subduction Zone: for making it so obvious, with the links you gave. Very enlightening about "The False", not yet about "The Truth". But staying clear from "The False" is a good first step I believe. I loved your little clip with all the "contradicting verses". Now I will see the Noah-clip.

Thanks a lot for sharing all your hard google-work/study. Very useful. I better just remember the essence in a few words. Very nice you gave this on "Whit Monday". Solves ALL my questions regarding the Bible.

Don't be so quick to disregard the account, without examining all the evidence and reasoning.

Let me ask you some questions: Who or what was the cause of the Biblical Flood? Does the Bible say it was a natural event? Or does it claim God was behind it? God, right? Then why think that He would just stop there, and not continue to protect the ark through the upheaval and extreme stresses surrounding it? Does that make sense, that God wouldn't continue protecting it?

And the dimensions of the ark that God gave to Noah, as the OP has pointed out repeatedly, are ideal for just such a vessel with no power or rudder, whose only purpose was to float. Modern shipbuilders have only discovered within the last 300 years that the dimension ratios of the Ark -- the width (or beam) being 1/6th the length, and the height being 1/10 the length -- the benefits these proportions provide for ships were not known in ancient times. How did Noah or Moses (who wrote the account) know?

Here's a shipbuilders assessment:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102007008#h=11

A study performed by University of Leicester physics students:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/s...l/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479

There's also much geologic and other related evidences, supporting a Global Flood.

Take care.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How did Noah or Moses (who wrote the account) know?

 

[Trackdayguy]

He didn't know and the reason I know, is he like King David never existed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He didn't know and the reason I know, is he like King David never existed.

^ dumb

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why do non-believing trolls hover at ReligiousForums (and religious forums) like flies on rotted meat?

I take it you feel this is one of "life's biggest questions?"

 

[stvdv]

Don't be so quick to disregard the account, without examining all the evidence and reasoning.
Let me ask you some questions: Who or what was the cause of the Biblical Flood? Does the Bible say it was a natural event? Or does it claim God was behind it? God, right? Then why think that He would just stop there, and not continue to protect the ark through the upheaval and extreme stresses surrounding it? Does that make sense, that God wouldn't continue protecting it?

And the dimensions of the ark that God gave to Noah, as the OP has pointed out repeatedly, are ideal for just such a vessel with no power or rudder, whose only purpose was to float. Modern shipbuilders have only discovered within the last 300 years that the dimension ratios of the Ark -- the width (or beam) being 1/6th the length, and the height being 1/10 the length -- the benefits these proportions provide for ships were not known in ancient times. How did Noah or Moses (who wrote the account) know?

Here's a shipbuilders assessment:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102007008#h=11
A study performed by University of Leicester physics students:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/s...l/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479
There's also much geologic and other related evidences, supporting a Global Flood.
Take care.

For me it's totally not important if the stories happened or not. I only care for the "lessons" I can learn from them. Maybe Noah existed, maybe not. Both are fine with me. But it's a wonderful story with many spiritual lessons in it. Being scientific it's just a little too much to tell "ALL earth" was flooded. If it would say "ALL earth except Antartic" I would not discard. Artic only has around 2 m ice and -20 degree or so. God can make that vanish. But Antarctic has like 2 km ice, that would even be too much for God to make it vanish IMHO. And then God created rain, snow, ice and all. Kind of tough to make it rain in a place with temperature -90 degree celsius. I don't know much about all this stuff, but sounds strange to me. If it freezes in Holland -5 degrees the raindrops change in hail. Imagine -90.

How did Noah or Moses (who wrote the account) know?
I know Noah brought in male/female, but not sure if God told him to bring paper and pen. I find it more plausible the story was written after the horror, although they had plenty of time to write, that I must admit. That God told Noah the perfect dimensions for the boat this I can totally believe. God can be very accurate when Data is important. This Data was important. The Data "All earth was flooded was not told by God, that was mixed up by people, who did not wear glasses to see all earth. So natural this data is not correct. Even I can't see all earth from Holland, and living in 2018. Many even believed in flat earth. So "All earth" picture was even more probably wrong anyway".

If you give good reason of "All earth including antarctic with -90 degrees celsius + 2000 meters of ice [not horizontal, but vertical] was flooded with water then I might reconsider my view [even if I put water in my fridge it gets frozen pretty fast, and that's only -15 degrees and no extra cold storms in my fridge]". Anyway whatever people find out, still I only really care in the "lessons". All the other things are just DATA for me. Not really important IMHO.

I don't discard God, Bible, Koran and all other scriptures. Just I don't believe blind all the factual data in them.

 

[Woberts]

Wow. A thread like this is going to be ripped apart by non-Christians/Jews/Muslims.

 

[stvdv]

I take it you feel this is one of "life's biggest questions?"

But it is a little interesting. Non-believers trying to proof believers wrong. Believers trying to proof non-believers wrong. And doing so for decades already. Maybe deep down the non-believer does believe, or does want to believe, or hopes there is a God. At least he cares a lot, so much that he spends years disproving something he didn't belief in, in the first place.

 

[Trackdayguy]

But it is a little interesting. Non-believers trying to proof believers wrong. Believers trying to proof non-believers wrong. And doing so for decades already. Maybe deep down the non-believer does believe, or does want to believe, or hopes there is a God. At least he cares a lot, so much that he spends years to find proof of something he didn't belief in in the first place.

I for one have no issue with what people believe, none what so ever. I do take issue when people start telling their right and have the truth and everyone who doesn't believe is wrong.

 

[stvdv]

I for one have no issue with what people believe, none what so ever. I do take issue when people start telling their right and have the truth and everyone who doesn't believe is wrong.

I totally agree. For many years I tried to debate Christians when they tried to convert me, because I don't like proselytizing.
But slowly I discover that if I don't talk to Christians anymore then the Christian can not proselytize anymore.
Much easier, more effective [and definitely extra time saving] solution to stop Christians from proselytizing.

 

[David1967]

Feel free to ask me about the theology of scripture, manuscripts, life biggest questions, alleged contradictions, context of passages etc... I dont know everything but I like to hear the objections and the difficult questions and problems people have with scripture. Please provide the references if possible, and any relevant evidence.

What happens if the missionary gets a flat tire and one dies before hearing him speak?

 

[David1967]

I dont know everything

Well, that's a step in the right direction anyway.

 

[stvdv]

What happens if the missionary gets a flat tire and one dies before hearing him speak?

God is Omniscient + Omnipresent, so He already took care by sending another missionary
Or even better "God whispered the message personally into his ear; no need for missionary"

 

[Trackdayguy]

What happens if the missionary gets a flat tire and one dies before hearing him speak?

Then I'd say he's been lucky not to have had the missionary put shame, fear and guilt on him as well as saving him for having any understanding about the no existent place called hell.

So I'd say he'd be much better off

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

At least he cares a lot, so much that he spends years disproving something he didn't belief in, in the first place.

For me, personally, I care to make sure that everyone's crazy idea's are kept in check. I know perhaps I am an extremely small, to even non-effectual part of that. But that is sincerely what I hope comes out of non-believers' fervency. That it remains that no single belief system or spiritual philosophy gains some undue amount of power. I'll stay vocal in my non-belief if even only for that one thing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Of course, as you set your own standard for "irrefutable" nothing will ever
do that if you so choose.

However, the presence of well over a hundred thousand years of ice in antarctica does show that there was no world wide flood. Perhaps if you
had seen it, you'd see there is something wonky in t he flood story.

It is irrefutably present.

"....well over a hundred thousand years of ice in antarctica..."
Have you seen it? Do you know every climactic change that has occurred?

There isn't a consensus among scientists on this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"....well over a hundred thousand years of ice in antarctica..."
Have you seen it? Do you know every climactic change that has occurred?

There isn't a consensus among scientists on this.

There is a clear consensus on scientists with regards to the ice sheets. You won't find any scientist that has not disqualified himself that disagrees that I know of.

 

[Audie]

"....well over a hundred thousand years of ice in antarctica..."
Have you seen it? Do you know every climactic change that has occurred?

There isn't a consensus among scientists on this.

Seriously?

But lets play that. have you seen the Old Testament being written?
Seen "god"? Any means of verification,at all?

Seen repeatable test results that show that Moscow, Russia or Idaho
actually exist? As with the ice, you could if you cared to.

Let us know when you can be specific about "scientists" who do not
agree with the great age of said ice, and their solid data.

 

[Audie]

For me, personally, I care to make sure that everyone's crazy idea's are kept in check. I know perhaps I am an extremely small, to even non-effectual part of that. But that is sincerely what I hope comes out of non-believers' fervency. That it remains that no single belief system or spiritual philosophy gains some undue amount of power. I'll stay vocal in my non-belief if even only for that one thing.

'fervent unbelief"?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....does The Bible affirm the existence of hell as a place of eternal torture?

No.

Jesus was "in Hell" for 3 days (Psalms 16:10; Luke 24:5-7), so what do you think?

He was in the grave, which is what hell is...."Sheol " in Hebrew, "Hades" in Greek.

Hell as a place of burning and torment, has no legitimate foundation in the Bible.

The Bible itself clearly states, “the dead are aware of nothing / conscious of nothing / know nothing at all.” — Ecclesiastes 9:5; the dead go “back to the ground.....(their) thoughts perish.” — Psalms 146:3-4; compare Genesis 3:19.

The Bible further states that everyone (reading Ecclesiastes 9:10), goes to hell when they die.....
“Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell, whither thou art hastening.” It applies to all. (So don’t read it! LOL!!)
Please note the different renderings on the Biblehub website:
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Notice, Hell is rendered the grave in most versions.

Again, regarding Jesus, Peter said that even Jesus, at his death, went to “hell”, ie., the grave, for 3 days before his resurrection. (Jesus was in Hell, He just wasn’t “left” there.) — Acts of the Apostles 2:30-31; compare the prophecy at Psalms 16:10).

Christendom has been scaring people for centuries with this nonsense, trying to control the masses with fear!

Any future life prospects only come in the Resurrection (John 5:28-29), which happens “in the Last Day.” — John 6:44

And that is going to be the outcome for most of dead mankind... they will be given a chance for life again...whether they accept God's rule, will be another question.

BTW, the fire mentioned in Revelation 20:13-14 is symbolic, because death is thrown into it. (You can't 'burn' death!) It just means Adamic death, i.e., death due to inherited sin, will be "no more"-- Revelation 21:4

And hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire....if there's no more death, there'll be no more graves.