How to End Poverty

[rrobs]

Deut 15:4-5,

4 Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance to possess it:
5 Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day.​

Incredibly simplistic, especially to economists I suppose, but the words are nonetheless as straight forward as words ever get.

I of course understand that such a revival in believing God will never occur. Jesus knew that, and that is why he said we will always have the poor (John 12:8). Still, it's interesting to see how poverty could be eliminated.

 

[tayla]

such a revival in believing God will never occur.

Are you suggesting that such a revival will cause people to assist those in need so there is no more poverty, or rather, that God will miraculously intervene somehow, perhaps removing the curse of limited resources or of competition for resources?

 

[rrobs]

Are you suggesting that such a revival will cause people to assist those in need so there is no more poverty, or rather, that God will miraculously intervene somehow, perhaps removing the curse of limited resources or of competition for resources?

Forget what, if anything, I'm suggesting. Just read the verses in Deuteronomy and draw your own conclusion. To me, they don't require any explanation. They just say what they mean. No interpretation required. No more complicated than saying, "The man crossed the street," for example.

As to how He would do it; I don't know. Maybe what you suggested, but maybe some other way.

Like I said, I totally understand that economists would have trouble with the simplicity of those verses. They would come up with all sorts of other ways to end poverty. But that is man and his wisdom. God's ways are much simpler than man's ways. He made it quite clear that poverty would end if we all learned to understand and obey the scriptures.

Mal 3:10,

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
​

Again, I don't know how to see this verse any other way than that God will give us all we need, more than we have room for even, if we follow His words. The Bible needs no approval or affirmation from man or man's ideas. God speaks and we either believe Him or not.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I don't know how to see this verse any other way than that God will give us all we need, more than we have room for even, if we follow His words.

Then why do churches go to their parishioners for money instead of God?

 

[rrobs]

Then why do churches go to their parishioners for money instead of God?

Well, you have to answer that in light of the verses I quoted. Or you could just say the Bible is wrong because it doesn't fit with experience.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Well, you have to answer that in light of the verses I quoted. Or you could just say the Bible is wrong because it doesn't fit with experience.

The bible is wrong on many counts, precisely because it doesn't fit with experience.

 

[rrobs]

The bible is wrong on many counts, precisely because it doesn't fit with experience.

Experience shows we all die and that's the end of it. There is no hope if experience is the final judge. Heck of a way to go through life by my estimation. What's the point of doing anything at all in this life? For the vast majority of people, their memory will be forgotten by the rest of humanity in short order. They may as well have never lived at all.

 

[danieldemol]

Unfortunately the one problem the Bible seems not equipped to deal with is the problem of overpopulation.

Thanks God we humans have invented effective means of birth control to prevent overpopulation.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Experience shows we all die and that's the end of it. There is no hope if experience is the final judge. Heck of a way to go through life by my estimation. What's the point of doing anything at all in this life? For the vast majority of people, their memory will be forgotten by the rest of humanity in short order. They may as well have never lived at all.

On the contrary, the fact that death is most likely the end of existence should be a reason to live life to the fullest. Your belief that everyone has an immortal soul leads to cowardice, and the fear of living the life you truly want to live, since you mistakenly think that everyone will always exist forever. In contrast to this, people who recognize their own mortality and realize that life is temporary have a greater reason to accomplish as much as they can in their short lifespan.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Deut 15:4-5,

4 Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance to possess it:
5 Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day.​

Incredibly simplistic, especially to economists I suppose, but the words are nonetheless as straight forward as words ever get.

I of course understand that such a revival in believing God will never occur. Jesus knew that, and that is why he said we will always have the poor (John 12:8). Still, it's interesting to see how poverty could be eliminated.

I'm not so sure I agree. When you look at WHY people are poor it has little to do with money, eg. One of the major causes of poverty in Africa is tribal & land locked countries. I'm not so sure that an over simplified strategy like quoting Bible verses will even scratch the surface.

Could I suggest a great book: "Walking with the poor". The book takes an in depth look at why the poor are poor and suggests strategies for Transformational Development.

https://www.amazon.ca/Walking-Poor-...6771997&sr=8-1&keywords=walking+with+the+poor

 

[rrobs]

On the contrary, the fact that death is most likely the end of existence should be a reason to live life to the fullest. Your belief that everyone has an immortal soul leads to cowardice, and the fear of living the life you truly want to live, since you mistakenly think that everyone will always exist forever. In contrast to this, people who recognize their own mortality and realize that life is temporary have a greater reason to accomplish as much as they can in their short lifespan.

Why would you equate understanding life and death with cowardice? You have no idea of the life I've lead. Definitely fuller than the average guy, I can tell you. I still do. But that doesn't change the fact that it will someday come to an end and my name and life accomplishments will fade into nothingness along with my body. I sure won't be thinking about me and all the thinks I did while alive! Dead is dead. No thoughts, no nothing.

I never mentioned an immortal soul. The immortality of soul is yet another church invention that keeps people away from taking an honest look at the scriptures.

For your enlightenment, the Bible defines soul as nothing more than breath life. All animals, including humans, breath and therefore have soul. When a person dies their breath stops and the soul is simply gone. It's like fire that leaves once the fuel is consumed. Soul doesn't go anywhere for any amount of time, let alone eternity. I could give you verses on all of that in case you are not totally and inescapably turned off by man made religion, a.k.a the churches. If so, I understand. Anyway, you've heard an alternative to church doctrine as to the nature of soul.

Spirit is something altogether different than soul. Spirit is a gift from God to those born again. That spirit is what gives the born again son of God eternal life. The new birth is God creating a whole new creature. He doesn't work with the flesh to somehow make it better. That can't be done, yet the churches tell us to do just that, "stop smoking, stop swearing, go to church, give money, etc. etc.

The churches should be teaching Christians who they are and what they in Christ Jesus. That alone will change one's behavior in a way no mere resolutions could ever do. The average Christian is full of guilt because they know darn well they can't stop sinning no matter how hard they try. A child of God needs to keep their mind on the things of God, i.e. the Bible, and off of their stupid flesh's behavior.

Well, that's probably more than you wanted to hear! Take care.......

 

[Trackdayguy]

Why would you equate understanding life and death with cowardice? You have no idea of the life I've lead. Definitely fuller than the average guy, I can tell you. I still do. But that doesn't change the fact that it will someday come to an end and my name and life accomplishments will fade into nothingness along with my body. I sure won't be thinking about me and all the thinks I did while alive! Dead is dead. No thoughts, no nothing.

I never mentioned an immortal soul. The immortality of soul is yet another church invention that keeps people away from taking an honest look at the scriptures.

For your enlightenment, the Bible defines soul as nothing more than breath life. All animals, including humans, breath and therefore have soul. When a person dies their breath stops and the soul is simply gone. It's like fire that leaves once the fuel is consumed. Soul doesn't go anywhere for any amount of time, let alone eternity. I could give you verses on all of that in case you are not totally and inescapably turned off by man made religion, a.k.a the churches. If so, I understand. Anyway, you've heard an alternative to church doctrine as to the nature of soul.

Spirit is something altogether different than soul. Spirit is a gift from God to those born again. That spirit is what gives the born again son of God eternal life. The new birth is God creating a whole new creature. He doesn't work with the flesh to somehow make it better. That can't be done, yet the churches tell us to do just that, "stop smoking, stop swearing, go to church, give money, etc. etc.

The churches should be teaching Christians who they are and what they in Christ Jesus. That alone will change one's behavior in a way no mere resolutions could ever do. The average Christian is full of guilt because they know darn well they can't stop sinning no matter how hard they try. A child of God needs to keep their mind on the things of God, i.e. the Bible, and off of their stupid flesh's behavior.

Well, that's probably more than you wanted to hear! Take care.......

I'm sorry sir but your over simplistic and christian fundamentalist views bares little resemblance to reality.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Why would you equate understanding life and death with cowardice? You have no idea of the life I've lead. Definitely fuller than the average guy, I can tell you. I still do. But that doesn't change the fact that it will someday come to an end and my name and life accomplishments will fade into nothingness along with my body. I sure won't be thinking about me and all the thinks I did while alive! Dead is dead. No thoughts, no nothing.

I never mentioned an immortal soul. The immortality of soul is yet another church invention that keeps people away from taking an honest look at the scriptures.

For your enlightenment, the Bible defines soul as nothing more than breath life. All animals, including humans, breath and therefore have soul. When a person dies their breath stops and the soul is simply gone. It's like fire that leaves once the fuel is consumed. Soul doesn't go anywhere for any amount of time, let alone eternity. I could give you verses on all of that in case you are not totally and inescapably turned off by man made religion, a.k.a the churches. If so, I understand. Anyway, you've heard an alternative to church doctrine as to the nature of soul.

Spirit is something altogether different than soul. Spirit is a gift from God to those born again. That spirit is what gives the born again son of God eternal life. The new birth is God creating a whole new creature. He doesn't work with the flesh to somehow make it better. That can't be done, yet the churches tell us to do just that, "stop smoking, stop swearing, go to church, give money, etc. etc.

The churches should be teaching Christians who they are and what they in Christ Jesus. That alone will change one's behavior in a way no mere resolutions could ever do. The average Christian is full of guilt because they know darn well they can't stop sinning no matter how hard they try. A child of God needs to keep their mind on the things of God, i.e. the Bible, and off of their stupid flesh's behavior.

Well, that's probably more than you wanted to hear! Take care.......

Well, I appreciate the reply, and I understand that you believe all of that. I don't.

 

[rrobs]

I'm not so sure I agree. When you look at WHY people are poor it has little to do with money, eg. One of the major causes of poverty in Africa is tribal & land locked countries. I'm not so sure that an over simplified strategy like quoting Bible verses will even scratch the surface.

Could I suggest a great book: "Walking with the poor". The book takes an in depth look at why the poor are poor and suggests strategies for Transformational Development.

https://www.amazon.ca/Walking-Poor-...6771997&sr=8-1&keywords=walking+with+the+poor

It sounds as if you are saying that God needs our help in fulfilling His clear promise to eliminate poverty if we followed His word, i.e. the scriptures. That's the problem with man's thinking. They always think they have ideas that are better than God's.

1Cor 1:25,

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
​

The verses on poverty are clear as a bell. There is little need for analysis, interpretation, and certainly no need for improvement. It's like calling the bank to get your balance. They give you a figure and you either believe it or not. God is pretty easy. He says He'll do certain things but admittedly not always how He'll do them. If He doesn't tell us, it doesn't matter. He'll see that it gets done. We can stop figuring out the details and have a good time watching God work.

​

 

[Trackdayguy]

It sounds as if you are saying that God needs our help in fulfilling His clear promise to eliminate poverty if we followed His word, i.e. the scriptures. That's the problem with man's thinking. They always think they have ideas that are better than God's.

1Cor 1:25,

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
​

The verses on poverty are clear as a bell. There is little need for analysis, interpretation, and certainly no need for improvement. It's like calling the bank to get your balance. They give you a figure and you either believe it or not. God is pretty easy. He says He'll do certain things but admittedly not always how He'll do them. If He doesn't tell us, it doesn't matter. He'll see that it gets done. We can stop figuring out the details and have a good time watching God work.

​

I respect your opinion sir, I was once a christian fundamentalist myself, but I have since had my eyes opened to the blindness and naivety of such views.

"I dont believe the Bible is the word of God, I believe the word of God is what I hear through the words of the Bible"

 

[rrobs]

I'm sorry sir but your over simplistic and christian fundamentalist views bares little resemblance to reality.

You don't have to apologize. I'm not sure what reality you are speaking of. Reality is a pretty slippery thing. Quantum mechanics says exactly that and quantum mechanics is as scientific as you can get. I just say that because I understand that people without simplistic views put great faith in science. Not that I disagree with science. True science should agree with the Bible.

The Bible claims to contain the truth (John 17:17), to have everything that pertains to life (2 Peter 1:3). Bold claims to be sure, but it does say that. What I don't understand is how so many people that have spent 5 minutes or less in the scriptures know all about them. Most people's ideas come from our so called Judo-Christian ethics system which bares little resemblance to the Bible.

 

[rrobs]

"I dont believe the Bible is the word of God, I believe the word of God is what I hear through the words of the Bible"

It sound to me like we're on the same page. Saying it in different ways, I guess, but saying the same thing. I gather you don't trust the church. I'm definitely with you on that. I think they've kept untold numbers of people away from those words of God by the illogical and mystical things they teach, beginning with their "foundation of faith" that Jesus is some kind of god-man, and God is 3 in 1 oil. If the two main characters of the book are so grossly misunderstood, there is no making sense of the story.

 

[Trackdayguy]

You don't have to apologize. I'm not sure what reality you are speaking of. Reality is a pretty slippery thing. Quantum mechanics says exactly that and quantum mechanics is as scientific as you can get. I just say that because I understand that people without simplistic views put great faith in science. Not that I disagree with science. True science should agree with the Bible.

The Bible claims to contain the truth (John 17:17), to have everything that pertains to life (2 Peter 1:3). Bold claims to be sure, but it does say that. What I don't understand is how so many people that have spent 5 minutes or less in the scriptures know all about them. Most people's ideas come from our so called Judo-Christian ethics system which bares little resemblance to the Bible.

Well I spent a little more than 5 minutes in the system, 25 years in fact and 10 years in an international leadership role with YWAM.

Could I suggest a good book:
https://bookoutlet.ca/Store/Details...twVElC_6n7dwPWMEXjOquBCwm1Su791IaAmzLEALw_wcB

 

[rrobs]

Well, I appreciate the reply, and I understand that you believe all of that. I don't.

OK then! Which one of us is better than the other? Just kidding...Don't get mad at me.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

OK then! Which one of us is better than the other? Just kidding...Don't get mad at me.

Lol