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Jesus' Second Coming

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Jesus' Second Coming


Jesus had both bones and flesh. Right, please?

if he was fully human, then yes.


He was not just a spirit, like every other human being he had a physical body and a soul. His teachings were from G-d and he followed them whole-heartedly and in this sense he was with G-d and from G-d like any other Jewish or non-Jewish prophet-messenger of G-d.
Jesus' Second Coming, I believe, has already taken place in the spiritual or attributive/symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, it is not a reincarnation.
Does it help, please?
Regards
incarnation from one form to another is re-incarnation. elijah was one form and john the baptist was another.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
If Jesus comes again in the flesh, is that not reincarnation?

Reincarnation is caused by remaining vasanas
Incarnation is not caused by remaining vasanas
[from the indian scriptures]
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
When Jesus returns, Jesus will not be of flesh and blood. But in the Spirit
Really ? Please cite chapter and verse. If he was resurrected as a spirit, why didn´t the women on resurrection morning find his body ? If he ascended in a glorified body and he told those watching he would return in like manner, what does he do with his body ?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
If Jesus comes again in the flesh, is that not reincarnation? And did he claim he would come as Jesus again, or did he claim to come as the Spirit of Truth? if he was before abraham, was he not the personality melchizedek then?
He was the Word (Logos), Melchizedek, I AM and Christ.
By the spirit of God, by which God acts, etc., he is that comforter spoken of -but "another" because he no longer acts in the flesh. The spirit of God -which is not a separate person -is another comforter, but it is he that comforts, etc., by it.
He will return in power and glory -not in the flesh.
Moses saw the back parts of his "glorious" body.
He will also eventually change the "vile" bodies of men (of all nations) to be like his glorious body -"according to the working thereby he is able to subdue all things unto himself"

Resurrection is different than reincarnation in that he was/we are not many different types of life forms, etc.
When he was flesh, it is said that he did not always know who he was, but otherwise, he was not a succession of different life forms -onlynamdifferentmrepresentation of the same person/personality.
 

Furchizedek

Member
If Jesus comes again in the flesh, is that not reincarnation?

Would be, but he's not coming again in the flesh.

And did he claim he would come as Jesus again, or did he claim to come as the Spirit of Truth?

Jesus is not the Spirit of Truth.

if he was before abraham, was he not the personality melchizedek then?

No. Melchizedek works for Jesus, as does Gabriel the Archangel who appeared to Mary. Melchizedek came here 2000 years before Jesus on an emergency mission to keep alive the one God idea so that Jesus could appear in a culture that at least had that idea down pat.

Also, while Jesus is certain to come back some day, it's probably not going to be anytime soon, much to the disappointment of some Christians who are hoping the next wars will force him to return. He's only been gone for 2 Paradise days. I'm sure he wants more rest after his ordeal here. Why would he come back in 2 days after what happened? If he takes a year of his time off, he'll be back in 365,000 years, and maybe by then, we'll be spiritual enough so that "every eye" can see him in the spirit. (Rev 1:7)
 

Furchizedek

Member
Really ? Please cite chapter and verse. If he was resurrected as a spirit, why didn´t the women on resurrection morning find his body ? If he ascended in a glorified body and he told those watching he would return in like manner, what does he do with his body ?

The answer to that is that after Jesus ascended in spirit, the attending angels asked the higher-ups for permission to accelerate time in the local area around Jesus' dead body so that it would disappear in a flash instead of taking years or decades to decompose, and the energies released from this high speed disolution process are probably/possibly, what caused the photographic type image in the chemicals in the Shroud of Turin.

No, seriously. You can read all about it in The Urantia Book. Here's a clip:

THE MATERIAL BODY OF JESUS

189:2.1 At ten minutes past three o’clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels—the angels of the resurrection—approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: “We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution.”

189:2.2 And when Gabriel had conferred with the senior Most High of Edentia, the archangel spokesman for the celestial hosts was given permission to make such disposition of the physical remains of Jesus as he might determine.

189:2.3 After the chief of archangels had been granted this request, he summoned to his assistance many of his fellows, together with a numerous host of the representatives of all orders of celestial personalities, and then, with the aid of the Urantia midwayers, proceeded to take possession of Jesus’ physical body. This body of death was a purely material creation; it was physical and literal; it could not be removed from the tomb as the morontia form of the resurrection had been able to escape the sealed sepulchre. By the aid of certain morontia auxiliary personalities, the morontia form can be made at one time as of the spirit so that it can become indifferent to ordinary matter, while at another time it can become discernible and contactable to material beings, such as the mortals of the realm.

189:2.4 As they made ready to remove the body of Jesus from the tomb preparatory to according it the dignified and reverent disposal of near-instantaneous dissolution, it was assigned the secondary Urantia midwayers to roll away the stones from the entrance of the tomb. The larger of these two stones was a huge circular affair, much like a millstone, and it moved in a groove chiseled out of the rock, so that it could be rolled back and forth to open or close the tomb. When the watching Jewish guards and the Roman soldiers, in the dim light of the morning, saw this huge stone begin to roll away from the entrance of the tomb, apparently of its own accord—without any visible means to account for such motion—they were seized with fear and panic, and they fled in haste from the scene. The Jews fled to their homes, afterward going back to report these doings to their captain at the temple. The Romans fled to the fortress of Antonia and reported what they had seen to the centurion as soon as he arrived on duty.

189:2.5 The Jewish leaders began the sordid business of supposedly getting rid of Jesus by offering bribes to the traitorous Judas, and now, when confronted with this embarrassing situation, instead of thinking of punishing the guards who deserted their post, they resorted to bribing these guards and the Roman soldiers. They paid each of these twenty men a sum of money and instructed them to say to all: “While we slept during the nighttime, his disciples came upon us and took away the body.” And the Jewish leaders made solemn promises to the soldiers to defend them before Pilate in case it should ever come to the governor’s knowledge that they had accepted a bribe.


189:2.6 The Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus has been based on the fact of the “empty tomb.” It was indeed a fact that the tomb was empty, but this is not the truth of the resurrection. The tomb was truly empty when the first believers arrived, and this fact, associated with that of the undoubted resurrection of the Master, led to the formulation of a belief which was not true: the teaching that the material and mortal body of Jesus was raised from the grave. Truth having to do with spiritual realities and eternal values cannot always be built up by a combination of apparent facts. Although individual facts may be materially true, it does not follow that the association of a group of facts must necessarily lead to truthful spiritual conclusions.

189:2.7 The tomb of Joseph was empty, not because the body of Jesus had been rehabilitated or resurrected, but because the celestial hosts had been granted their request to afford it a special and unique dissolution, a return of the “dust to dust,” without the intervention of the delays of time and without the operation of the ordinary and visible processes of mortal decay and material corruption.

189:2.8 The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Would be, but he's not coming again in the flesh

So you are the one who commands Jesus [kind of God] "He my friend, you are invited BUT not in the flesh"
[My biggest lesson learnt was "I better don't fill in God's plans"]
 

Furchizedek

Member
So you are the one who commands Jesus [kind of God] "He my friend, you are invited BUT not in the flesh"
[My biggest lesson learnt was "I better don't fill in God's plans"]

I never said I was the one who commands Jesus. Are you a twister? Twisting what people say is a dumb, dishonest game. I said that (in my opinion, which goes without saying that it's my opinion, in my opinion) Jesus is not coming back any time soon. He's only been gone for 2 of his days. Perhaps Melchizedek will stop in after the coming wars and help us put the pieces back together, but if you're a Christian hyped up on the idea that Jesus is returning as soon as Trump can get the next war started, I think you're in for a disappointment. He clearly said that no one knows when he's coming back, but nevertheless, Christians can't seem to stop trying to second guess what Jesus is going to do next, and I know there are a lot of them who think they can force Jesus' hand in the matter if only they can get the proper end times wars going.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I never said I was the one who commands Jesus. Are you a twister? Twisting what people say is a dumb, dishonest game. I said that (in my opinion, which goes without saying that it's my opinion, in my opinion)

I am not a twister. I am very new here, and read the rules, and remembered the below rule. I myself try to not forget IMHO when stating my opinion as a definitive matter of fact. And it really feels different when reading [with IMHO]. How you write it above makes all the difference; I would never have replied the way I did. I must admit I used to forget it myself, and after being 40days on the forum I really think this is the best lesson I learnt here.

You are very new here I see now. So I should not have done it this way. My mistake.

RF Rules
8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Really ? Please cite chapter and verse. If he was resurrected as a spirit, why didn´t the women on resurrection morning find his body ? If he ascended in a glorified body and he told those watching he would return in like manner, what does he do with his body ?


Seeing you have very little understanding.

Not talking about the resurrection of Jesus, But about Jesus second coming.

As to where do you get Jesus ascended in a glorified body at ?

There is no where the bible thats written about Jesus has having a glorified body as you say.
Which is nothing more than man's teachings.
When the body dies, the flesh body returns back to the earth. And the spirit comes forth out the body and returns back to God who gave it.

As for the body of Jesus, which has substance of flesh and bone, but without blood.
As for our body of flesh and bone and blood.
The body of Jesus has substance to it, as flesh and bone. But without the blood.

Therefore Jesus can appear and disappear

As it is written in Luke 24:30,31
"And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them,
And their eyes were opened, and they knew him, and he vanished out of their sight"

Therefore the body of Jesus has substance, As flesh and bone, which Jesus can appear and disappear out of sight.

Luke 24:39--"Behold my hands and my feet,
That it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have"
But if you have notice Jesus never made mention of having blood, Only flesh and bones.
But yet Jesus can appear and disappear out of sight, As Jesus did with the disciples.
But as we can see that a spirit does not have flesh and bones, As Jesus stated above in Verse 39.

Therefore when Jesus comes at his second coming, Jesus will have flesh and bones, But not of blood nor like our body's of flesh and bones and blood.
Which with the body of Jesus, Jesus can appear to many and disappear before many.
So I guess I should haved made myself more clear about the body of Jesus.
Not realizing, That the body of Christ Jesus, which has flesh bones, But not to be taken like our body of flesh and bones and blood bodies.
Jesus having flesh and bones, But not like what we know flesh and bones to be.

The body of Jesus which has substance of flesh and bones, which Jesus can appear and disappear.
Thereby not being of flesh and bones,
As we know flesh and bones to be.

Until which you call the body of Jesus as being a glorified body. Which there is nothing written stating anything of the such, Nor does Jesus say anything about having a glorified body.
Jesus in having an Immortal body of flesh and bones which can not die, and our bodies of flesh and blood and bones are Mortals. Can and will die.

Now seeing the body of Jesus was not created from the dust of the earth. But was made by God Himself.
Therefore when the body of Christ Jesus died, It didn't return back to the earth, For the body of Christ Jesus was not made from the earth, As our bodies were.

This is why in the tomb of Jesus, there was no died body to be found.
For when the disciples of Christ Jesus went to the tomb and found not the body of Christ Jesus.
All because the body of Christ Jesus does not decay, like our bodies does decay to a corps and soon back to nothing but dust.
 

outlawState

Deism is dead
Do you have any idea or clue, As to how people will be able to see Jesus at his return.

Had you not read in
1st Corinthians 15:52-That in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed"

Seeing at the last trump, This being the last trumpet in the book of Revelation,

We all shall be changed from this body of flesh and blood, To the spirit, This is how people will see Jesus as he is, in the Spirit, So we also be in the Spirit to see Jesus as he is in the Spirit.

Therefore Matthew 24:27, Jesus is speaking about his return in the Spirit, and we shall also be changed from this body of flesh and blood to that of the Spirit, to see Jesus as he is in the Spirit.
I believe that you are not respecting the order of events in Mat. 24:29-31.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So the elect are gathered after they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Had you not read in
1st Corinthians 15:52-That in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed"

"at the last trump" = with Donald Trump [IMHI]
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I believe that you are not respecting the order of events in Mat. 24:29-31.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So the elect are gathered after they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Nope not at all, Seeing how
1st Corinthians 15:52 and
Matthew 24:29,30 both stand together.

As to which tribulation do you suppose Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:29--"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Seeing how in the book of Revelation there are two tribulations, So which tribulation do you suppose Jesus is referring to in
Matthew 24:29,30 ?

And according to the book of Revelation, when does the stars fall from heaven, What's taking place for the stars to fall from heaven.

Also take note, That Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy of Revelation happens first, That when this Prophecy happens brings about Christ Jesus second coming.
That at the time when this Prophecy happens, the tribulation is over and then Christ Jesus returns.

There are alot of Christians that are being taught, that Christ Jesus will come to Rapture them out before the tribulation.

But however Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy of Revelation happens first, which brings about Jesus return and the end of the tribulation.

Unto which by the time the Rapture is to happen, The tribulation is over, So what good is the Rapture going to do ?
 
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shmogie

Well-Known Member
Be ver
Seeing you have very little understanding.

Not talking about the resurrection of Jesus, But about Jesus second coming.

As to where do you get Jesus ascended in a glorified body at ?

There is no where the bible thats written about Jesus has having a glorified body as you say.
Which is nothing more than man's teachings.
When the body dies, the flesh body returns back to the earth. And the spirit comes forth out the body and returns back to God who gave it.

As for the body of Jesus, which has substance of flesh and bone, but without blood.
As for our body of flesh and bone and blood.
The body of Jesus has substance to it, as flesh and bone. But without the blood.

Therefore Jesus can appear and disappear

As it is written in Luke 24:30,31
"And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them,
And their eyes were opened, and they knew him, and he vanished out of their sight"

Therefore the body of Jesus has substance, As flesh and bone, which Jesus can appear and disappear out of sight.

Luke 24:39--"Behold my hands and my feet,
That it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have"
But if you have notice Jesus never made mention of having blood, Only flesh and bones.
But yet Jesus can appear and disappear out of sight, As Jesus did with the disciples.
But as we can see that a spirit does not have flesh and bones, As Jesus stated above in Verse 39.

Therefore when Jesus comes at his second coming, Jesus will have flesh and bones, But not of blood nor like our body's of flesh and bones and blood.
Which with the body of Jesus, Jesus can appear to many and disappear before many.
So I guess I should haved made myself more clear about the body of Jesus.
Not realizing, That the body of Christ Jesus, which has flesh bones, But not to be taken like our body of flesh and bones and blood bodies.
Jesus having flesh and bones, But not like what we know flesh and bones to be.

The body of Jesus which has substance of flesh and bones, which Jesus can appear and disappear.
Thereby not being of flesh and bones,
As we know flesh and bones to be.

Until which you call the body of Jesus as being a glorified body. Which there is nothing written stating anything of the such, Nor does Jesus say anything about having a glorified body.
Jesus in having an Immortal body of flesh and bones which can not die, and our bodies of flesh and blood and bones are Mortals. Can and will die.

Now seeing the body of Jesus was not created from the dust of the earth. But was made by God Himself.
Therefore when the body of Christ Jesus died, It didn't return back to the earth, For the body of Christ Jesus was not made from the earth, As our bodies were.

This is why in the tomb of Jesus, there was no died body to be found.
For when the disciples of Christ Jesus went to the tomb and found not the body of Christ Jesus.
All because the body of Christ Jesus does not decay, like our bodies does decay to a corps and soon back to nothing but dust.
Be careful about statements like "seeing you have very little understanding", YOU statements like this are simply small ad hominems.

"I wasn't clear in what I said" is much more civil.

After all your circumlocution here is what you said. Christ has a physical body. Christ as the Son of God has powers over physical laws that he created. A resurrected body is inherently glorified, as ours will be at our resurrection, not to the extent of the Son of God, but still glorified.

You answered my question, Christ will return in a physical body, not as a spirit being.
 

outlawState

Deism is dead
Nope not at all, Seeing how
1st Corinthians 15:52 and
Matthew 24:29,30 both stand together.
1 Corinthians 15:52 does not exclude believers seeing the return of Christ along with everyone else.

Nope not at all,
As to which tribulation do you suppose Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:29--"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Seeing how in the book of Revelation there are two tribulations, So which tribulation do you suppose Jesus is referring to in
Matthew 24:29,30 ?

And according to the book of Revelation, when does the stars fall from heaven, What's taking place for the stars to fall from heaven.
There are a whole series of tribulations in the book of Revelation. I tend to follow Barnes Notes on Revelation (amillennial view) but I am open to alternative meanings. Stars falling from heaven usually means the end of a nation or empire, or the end of the world. It is a common symbol, and was used to denote the end of Judaism as the world knew it in AD 70 in Mat 24; in Rev 6;13 probably the end of the Western Roman Empire by the Goths and Vandals, and in Mat 24 again (a dual prophecy) also to denote the second coming when worldly kingdoms and rulers will all fall.

Also take note, That Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy of Revelation happens first, That when this Prophecy happens brings about Christ Jesus second coming.
That at the time when this Prophecy happens, the tribulation is over and then Christ Jesus returns.

There are alot of Christians that are being taught, that Christ Jesus will come to Rapture them out before the tribulation.

But however Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy of Revelation happens first, which brings about Jesus return and the end of the tribulation.

Unto which by the time the Rapture is to happen, The tribulation is over, So what good is the Rapture going to do ?
I am not a premillennialist, if that is what you are inferring. I am an amillennialist and concur the "rapture" so-termed immediately precedes the end of the world and the last judgement, and so post-dates all tribulation of Revelation.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
He was the Word (Logos), Melchizedek, I AM and Christ.
By the spirit of God, by which God acts, etc., he is that comforter spoken of -but "another" because he no longer acts in the flesh. The spirit of God -which is not a separate person -is another comforter, but it is he that comforts, etc., by it.
He will return in power and glory -not in the flesh.
Moses saw the back parts of his "glorious" body.
He will also eventually change the "vile" bodies of men (of all nations) to be like his glorious body -"according to the working thereby he is able to subdue all things unto himself"

Resurrection is different than reincarnation in that he was/we are not many different types of life forms, etc.
When he was flesh, it is said that he did not always know who he was, but otherwise, he was not a succession of different life forms -onlynamdifferentmrepresentation of the same person/personality.
so as melchizedek and jesus, you don't believe he reincarnated?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Would be, but he's not coming again in the flesh.
then why bother coming the first time as Jesus in the flesh?



Jesus is not the Spirit of Truth.
jesus was begotten by the Spirit, as the bible claims everyone is. genesis 1:3 and john 1:3



No. Melchizedek works for Jesus, as does Gabriel the Archangel who appeared to Mary. Melchizedek came here 2000 years before Jesus on an emergency mission to keep alive the one God idea so that Jesus could appear in a culture that at least had that idea down pat.

Also, while Jesus is certain to come back some day, it's probably not going to be anytime soon, much to the disappointment of some Christians who are hoping the next wars will force him to return. He's only been gone for 2 Paradise days. I'm sure he wants more rest after his ordeal here. Why would he come back in 2 days after what happened? If he takes a year of his time off, he'll be back in 365,000 years, and maybe by then, we'll be spiritual enough so that "every eye" can see him in the spirit. (Rev 1:7)

jesus is made after, not before, the order of melchizedek. the order is not jesus. the pattern is melchizedek.


every eye that is born of the Spirit recognizes itself.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Be ver

Be careful about statements like "seeing you have very little understanding", YOU statements like this are simply small ad hominems.

"I wasn't clear in what I said" is much more civil.

After all your circumlocution here is what you said. Christ has a physical body. Christ as the Son of God has powers over physical laws that he created. A resurrected body is inherently glorified, as ours will be at our resurrection, not to the extent of the Son of God, but still glorified.

You answered my question, Christ will return in a physical body, not as a spirit being.

While Christ was here on earth, Yes Christ had a physical body while here on earth.

After the death and Resurrection of
Christ has a spiritual body and physical body as well.
What this means is, That Christ has a physical body, but not like our physical body.
Christ Jesus can appear and disappear
So the physical body of Christ Jesus, is not totally a physical body as we know a physical body to be.

As Christ Jesus sat with the disciple in the book of Luke 24:30,31,
As Christ Jesus sat with the disciple eating. Then all of sudden Christ vanished right before their eyes.
Therefore Christ Jesus does not have a physical body as we know a physical body to be. Which Christ Jesus can appear and then disappear in the spirit.
 
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