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Challenge: Should the Koran be taken literally or NOT?

Should the Koran be taken literally or NOT?


  • Total voters
    17

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Perhaps you were yet speaking to @Aamer, so please excuse me if that is the case.

While I greatly anticipate @Aamer 's take on the matter, you are plenty welcome to expose your views as well.

Ideally, I would want a representative sample of Muslim views too. But that may be difficult to attain or even to recognize.


I think that shirk is generally taken to mean, a belief in some entity which can override the will of God, or whose will can contend with his.

A partner that is cooperative (which is why he would be considered a partner in the first place) but not always in full alignment with God, then?

Sounds reasonable. Hard to say whether that is a common or the original interpretation without some evidence, though.

Although, it is my opinion, the concept of shirk was propagated by Muhammad and directed primarily at Christians, whose headstrong belief in the divinity and authority of Jesus presented an obstacle against the directives of Muhammad.

That sounds likely.

I do not think that shirk has much to do with anything – especially for Muhammad and the nascent movement – beyond worship and the bestowing of authority above that of Allah’s, and by extension, Muhammad’s.

Beats me. I stand fairly surprised by the apparent emphasis that many Muslims - even presumably secular ones - put in the idea of shirk. It is not exactly rational from where I stand.


Notice, here, these verses from the Quran. They lump together the notions of God having a child, and God having a partner. In my mind, these verses suggest that Muhammad attempted to tackle the problem of disloyalty, among those individuals who at first pledged allegiance to Muhammad but then conscientiously objected in carrying out his directives, on account of their faith in Jesus’ teachings, as found in the gospels.

(...)

That may well be.
 

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
True mercy, forgiveness and love?

Where in the Quran does it say that God loves you for the sinner that you are? It does not – anywhere. This is the measure by which we deem something truly merciful, forgiving and loving.





Muhammad, a mercy? Please.

Where was the mercy for all those people who were the victims of Muhammad’s violence, whether personally or by his command?


Not every sin is forgiven, only those sins which have not challenged the supreme authority of Muhammad. For example, idolatry is unforgivable; and those who declare Jesus to be God’s Son and the King of Kings are not forgiven. This verse is more double-talk.

“Truly God forgives not that any partner be ascribed unto Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whomsoever He will, for whosoever ascribes partners unto God has surely fabricated a tremendous sin. (Q. 4:48)”


More double-talk. What is justice to one person might not be justice to another. Yet, what is justice to all persons is verily justice.

Those persons who did not find Muhammad’s justice to be just, they were indeed condemned as transgressors.


More double-talk.

I am an apostate; would Muhammad be gentle with me? Or would his gentleness consist of not burning me alive, and instead, merely murdering me?

“Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and so, ‘Ali burned them alive. Ibn ‘Abbas said: ‘If it had been me, I would not have burned them. God’s Messenger [Muhammad] said: ‘No one should be punished with the punishment of God. But, if it had been me, I would have killed them. For whoever changes his religion, kill him.’”
(Sunan an-Nasai)


As we can see in that hadith which I cited above, Muhammad’s sense of mercy and justice is perverted. It is praiseworthy that a person convert to Islam, but it is intolerable that they apostatize. A clear double-standard.


And we are to behave (as much as is possible) as Allah behaves?

“If you love only those who love you, what reward do you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing? Don’t even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore, just as your heavenly Father is complete in showing love to everyone, so also you must be complete.”

Wise words are these. You see? It is precisely that, we must be merciful to those who are NOT merciful to us.

Long live the King of Kings!


I didn't claim anything, I just simply quoted the verses and hadith that are related to God's mercy,love and forgiveness in Islam and that triggered you..

Correction.. that is your measure as a Christian. As a Muslim I don't share the same view as you in regards to God's attributes, and my definiton of true mercy,forgiveness and love is different than yours.

I don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. I did not claim that God forgives all sins, and God's mercy is not linked to this. God is Most Just, He forgives who He wills an punishes who He wills. We believe that we are responsible for our deeds. I'm not saved just because I'm Muslim, I can still be among those who enter Hell.

Does christianity teach that everyone will enter heaven even those that don't accept Jesus as their lord and saviour? If not I can use your argument against you. Have a blessed day.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I didn't claim anything, I just simply quoted the verses and hadith that are related to God's mercy,love and forgiveness in Islam and that triggered you..

Correction.. that is your measure as a Christian. As a Muslim I don't share the same view as you in regards to God's attributes, and my definiton of true mercy,forgiveness and love is different than yours.

I don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. I did not claim that God forgives all sins, and God's mercy is not linked to this. God is Most Just, He forgives who He wills an punishes who He wills. We believe that we are responsible for our deeds. I'm not saved just because I'm Muslim, I can still be among those who enter Hell.

Does christianity teach that everyone will enter heaven even those that don't accept Jesus as their lord and saviour? If not I can use your argument against you. Have a blessed day.
Very well said. Keep up the good work. It's not often that we get such articulate Muslim. I very much enjoy your take on things (and that's coming from a strong atheist). :D
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Another false claim and misconception about the Quran. There is no command in the Quran anywhere to kill non-Muslims indiscriminately. In fact, this is forbidden. You can only kill if it's self defense, if they are kicking you out of your homes or if they are preventing you from worshipping your Creator. Everybody loves to quote the "Kill them where you find them" verse... But they conveniently ignore the verse that comes immediately after it...

[4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may KILL THEM WHERE YOU ENCOUNTER THEM them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

[4:90] EXEMPTED ARE THOSE who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you WISHING NOT TO FIGHT YOU, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, IF THEY LEAVE YOU ALONE, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD GIVES YOU NO EXCUSE TO FIGHT THEM.

Quran only allows violence in Self Defense. Sorry to disappoint you... But that's the truth of it. If that's not enough... Here's more light on the Quran's attitude towards Non Muslims...

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

I don't defend Muslims. Most of them have never read the Quran. I am not a member of their organized religion which has forgotten their scripture. I only defend the word of the Most High.

Peace and may the Almighty bless us all.

Aamer.
You should post more. We are severely lacking in people of the Islamic faith in this forum.
 
I didn't claim anything, I just simply quoted the verses and hadith that are related to God's mercy,love and forgiveness in Islam and that triggered you..
You know what, Sakeenah, you are right. I guess I was triggered. But you should understand something; that when someone defends my abuser, it brings to mind painful memories. He manipulated me; he lied to me; he told me to trust him, and I did. And then, he molested my soul. You may be one kind of wife with him; but with me, I was just a tool.

Correction.. that is your measure as a Christian. As a Muslim I don't share the same view as you in regards to God's attributes, and my definiton of true mercy,forgiveness and love is different than yours.
That may be. However, what is good for all is truly good; and what is good, only for one, is really good for none.

It is easy to believe this-or-that when you set yourself up as the master (I am thinking of the vanquished, in the Muslim conquests). When you are the master, things are however you say they are. But that does not make you good and just.

Christ’s measure is for the sake of those who are lost. Muhammad’s measure is for the sake of those already found. In other words, what good is a hospital which turns away the sick?

You may hold different beliefs – and I respect that in principle – but the measure which I try to utilize is the human measure. With all due respect, a supremacist measure is not equally as valid as the humanist measure.

I don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. I did not claim that God forgives all sins, and God's mercy is not linked to this. God is Most Just, He forgives who He wills an punishes who He wills. We believe that we are responsible for our deeds. I'm not saved just because I'm Muslim, I can still be among those who enter Hell.

Does christianity teach that everyone will enter heaven even those that don't accept Jesus as their lord and saviour? If not I can use your argument against you. Have a blessed day.
That produce which is plucked from the tree and found to be rotten will be thrown away, for it has no use. As for the judgment of what is rotten and what it not, that will be left for the Christ to decide, at the Resurrection.

Labels and mere talk do not guarantee redemption. Therefore, I may talk the part of the humanist, and you the part of the supremacist, and yet, I walk the path of supremacy, and you the path of humanity. As far as I am concerned, you are less rotten than I am, if at all.

Nevertheless, things may be fine when Muhammad spends the night at your house; he may make you feel safe and loved; he may be gentle. But when he spent the night at my house, he was a hellish brute. Love him if you must, but do not discount the abuse.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Here is the commentary from The Study Quran on verse 4:48 —

“The sin of shirk, ascribing partners to God in worship or in His role as Creator, is considered to be the only sin God will not forgive (see also v. 116). Although this term is often associated with idolatry in the crass form of worshipping humanly constructed idols and indeed mushrikūn, the active participle from the same root, is often translated “idolaters” it can also refer to those who worship human authorities, false deities, angels (see 17:40c; 53:26 –27), jinn (6:100; 34:41), or natural phenomena (6:76 –78) as having independent influence and authority over the world or human destiny. The sin of shirk could also be broadened to include subtler ways of setting up “equals” with God, such as loving or fearing anything but God. The present verse compelled many to examine their own hearts and excise all such forms of “hidden shirk ” (Aj, Qu). Some say that this verse was revealed, in part, to clarify the assertion in 39:53 that God forgives all sins, making an exception for shirk ( Ṭ ). However, the possibility of forgiveness for shirk is precluded only for one who dies unrepentant (Z; see 67:10 –11c). The verse does not guarantee forgiveness for sins other than shirk, but allows for its possibility ( Ṭ ). ʿ Alī ibn Abī Ṭ ālib reportedly said that this verse gave him the greatest hope (Q), and Ibn ʿ Abbās considered it one of the eight most important verses about forgiveness (see 4:26 –28c). Some have seen this verse as a continuation of the warning issued to the Madinan Jews in v. 47 and even claim that it indicates that Jews can be considered mushrikūn, although this has never represented the general opinion among Muslim scholars. Nonetheless al-Rāzī argues syllogistically that since v. 47 warns that the Jews’ failure to believe in the message of the Quran will bring certain punishment, this failure to believe is de facto an “unforgivable sin”; since the only unforgivable sin is shirk, their failure to believe in the Quran is tantamount to shirk . However, this interpretation collapses the categories of shirk and kufr into one, whereas the two are distinct in the Quran and Islamic Law. In the Quran, Jews and Christians are clearly identified as religious practitioners separate from the mushrikūn (see 22:17; 98:1c), even if it sometimes suggests they might be guilty of something that approximates shirk (cf. 5:72; 9:30). In other places Jews and Christians are explicitly included in the category of “those who believe in God and the Last Day” and who may, therefore, enjoy a blessed Afterlife (2:62; 5:69). This clearly shows that Jews cannot be considered to be mushrikūn that is, those who take partners unto God in worship since that unforgiveable sin would necessarily bar them from such blessings in the Hereafter. This verse can also be read as a mitigation rather than an intensification of the threat to the Madinan Jews: if v. 47 threatens punishment for the Jews’ failure to believe in the Quranic message, v. 48 could be read as offering hope that all other sins perhaps even a failure to believe in the Quran and the Prophet on the part of the Jews (essentially kufr, or disbelief, but short of shirk ) are open to possible forgiveness. It is only shirk, theologically and legally distinct from kufr, that cannot be forgiven. Most early commentators read this verse as a general statement of hope to the believers concerning God’s willingness to forgive rather than as a particular threat to the Madinan Jews. Ibn ʿ Umar reports that upon the death of a fellow Muslim who he and others knew had committed a great sin, they bore witness that he was among the people of Hell. When this verse was revealed, they ceased to do so, as they realized that even great sins were open to Divine Forgiveness (Th).”
Ok...that seems like a very forgiving God. Come under His sole protection and He can and will forgive everything. Does it not undermine your argument of absence of mercy in Quranic theology?
 
Ok...that seems like a very forgiving God. Come under His sole protection and He can and will forgive everything. Does it not undermine your argument of absence of mercy in Quranic theology?
“We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for having ascribed partners unto God, for which He has not sent down any authority. And their refuge shall be the Fire, and evil is the abode of the wrongdoers.” (Q. 3:151)

“Say, ‘He, God, is One, God, the Eternally Sufficient unto Himself. He begets not; nor was He begotten. And none is like unto Him.” (Q. 112)

As you can see, there is no equal, no partner “like unto” Allah. And those who believe there is an equal will be terrorized in hell. For the Christian, Jesus is an equal to Allah.

Mercy? One can claim anything they like, but that does not make it so. One may say, “I am indeed being fair.” And yet, they are not fair.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
“We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for having ascribed partners unto God, for which He has not sent down any authority. And their refuge shall be the Fire, and evil is the abode of the wrongdoers.” (Q. 3:151)

“Say, ‘He, God, is One, God, the Eternally Sufficient unto Himself. He begets not; nor was He begotten. And none is like unto Him.” (Q. 112)

As you can see, there is no equal, no partner “like unto” Allah. And those who believe there is an equal will be terrorized in hell. For the Christian, Jesus is an equal to Allah.

Mercy? One can claim anything they like, but that does not make it so. One may say, “I am indeed being fair.” And yet, they are not fair.
In Christianity too, anybody who does not believe that Jesus is the Way are going to everlasting torment, according to many orthodox interpretations...is that not true? How is this different?
 
In Christianity too, anybody who does not believe that Jesus is the Way are going to everlasting torment, according to many orthodox interpretations...is that not true? How is this different?
Many people say they are Christian, but they do not have the Spirit. For them, Christianity is a clique, one which makes them feel superior, and one which allows them to accuse.

---

To Christ, the door home is always open.

To Muhammad, the door home may become forever shut.

That is the difference.

---

Also, I found this nice article:
Heartsick boy asks Pope Francis if his atheist dad is in heaven

And by the way, there is no torment. Why would you endlessly crush and grind a batch of rotten fruit? You would not. You would merely toss it and let it fade away.
 

james blunt

Well-Known Member
Should any book of religion be taken literally? Do we worship God or a book?

It seems to me most religions worship the book, can anyone explain why please?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Many people say they are Christian, but they do not have the Spirit. For them, Christianity is a clique, one which makes them feel superior, and one which allows them to accuse.

---

To Christ, the door home is always open.

To Muhammad, the door home may become forever shut.

That is the difference.

---

Also, I found this nice article:
Heartsick boy asks Pope Francis if his atheist dad is in heaven

And by the way, there is no torment. Why would you endlessly crush and grind a batch of rotten fruit? You would not. You would merely toss it and let it fade away.
What is the official Catholic Doctrine though?
Some people are getting to heaven and others are either tormented or thrown away as garbage in both doctrines. I still don't see the difference. I also find both doctrines much harsher than the idea of universal liberation that Hinduism has.

Why would the door be closed in Islam? Anyone can choose to humbly submit to God with devotion and sincerity, and Allah can and will forgive anything. Quran also explicitly says that this sincerity of humble submission can be found outside of Islam.

Finally, your Christianity may be liberal, but that is your individual faith. If you are going to compare that way, there are many sincere Muslims who have similarly expansive ideas of salvation as yours. For consistency, please compare organizational beliefs with organizational beliefs OR individual faith with individual faith.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Should any book of religion be taken literally? Do we worship God or a book?

It seems to me most religions worship the book, can anyone explain why please?
Perhaps some people are not very good at handling their craving for certainty and allow it to lead them into scripture worship.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
The black stone in the Kaaba, Muhammad went into goddess Diana temple in Ephesus, and destroyed all the pagan statues, But kept the rock which fell from heaven and Muhammad put it in the East corner of the Kaaba in Mecca.

Muhammad is said to have walk around the Kaaba 7 times then kiss the rock which he calls the god that takes away all sins.
And gives salvation to all who kisses the rock which fell from heaven.

The crescent moon and star were carried on the head of Osiris the golden calf and in the middle of the head of the golden calf is the crescent moon and star and You will find the serpent which is according to the Bible
Rev 12:9, is Satan that old serpent and Satan the Devil.

This symbol, Crescent moon and star, is found on every Muslim Mosque.

In Hebrew its translated
Heylel Ben Shachar = Lucifer son of the Dawn.

In Arabic Hilal = Crescent moon.
When putting it all together it simply means = Heylel Ben Shachar Crescent moon. son of the morning star or the Dawn

Crescent and morning Star ( Lucifer)
Rising with Dawn, This has become the symbol of Muslims Allah and Islam.
Crescent moon and star repsents Lucifer, Satan himself.

In the book of Acts 7:43, They are called,
Moloch - Rephan the star of your god, And the images you made in order to worship them. Acts 19:29-37.

In Egypt they were called the god of
Osiris - ISIS
In Assyria - Assur - Ishtar
Babylon - Bel - Belit
Persia - Mithra - Anahita
Greece - Helios - Artemis
Rome - Apollo - Diana - goddess

Unto which all these gods fell under one banner the Crescent moon and star.

In the Bible they are called ( Baal)
Ashtcroth - Ashtoreth = Queen of heaven.

Moloch tent of the star of Moloch.
Acts 7:40-43
Amos 5:26
Jeremiah 25:9-17


Ashtoreth - Ashteroth the goddess of heaven
Acts 19:35
Jeremiah 7:18 - 44:17
Zephaniah 1:5-18, 2:11
Deuteronomy 4:19, 6:14,15
1st kings 11:33

You are missing the whole point of everything I said. I grew up as a Sunni Muslim and as I began to search for truth myself, I came to understand that "Islam" as Muslims practice it today is infested with Luciferian paganism. The same can be said for modern day Christianity and Judaism.

I could care less about what Muhammad was "said to have done." In fact, Muhammad isn't even important. Only the Creator is important.

Please show me how any of what you have stated has anything to do with the Quran.

Focus on the scripture. I'm not interested in what the followers of any religious cult say, preach or believe.

Talk scripture and we can have a discussion. Human labels and heresay are of no concern to me.

Peace and blessings.

Aamer.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
@Aamer , would you be willing to talk a bit about your understanding of the meaning of the claim that God has no partners?

What would a partner be in that context, and why is it significant that there is none?

Hey Luis. The concept is quite simple. There is only ONE Creator aka Master Designer of this Universe. He needs no help.

He has no wife. No brothers. No sisters. No children. No lesser gods. All of those beliefs come from paganism.

He has sent prophets and messengers down to humans. But they are only his chosen servants. Not partners.

The Almighty alone is in charge. He needs no partners or assistants.

Easy to understand or do you have any questions?

Peace and blessings of the Most High upon us all.

Aamer.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
True mercy, forgiveness and love?

Where in the Quran does it say that God loves you for the sinner that you are? It does not – anywhere. This is the measure by which we deem something truly merciful, forgiving and loving.


Muhammad, a mercy? Please.

Where was the mercy for all those people who were the victims of Muhammad’s violence, whether personally or by his command?


Not every sin is forgiven, only those sins which have not challenged the supreme authority of Muhammad. For example, idolatry is unforgivable; and those who declare Jesus to be God’s Son and the King of Kings are not forgiven. This verse is more double-talk.

“Truly God forgives not that any partner be ascribed unto Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whomsoever He will, for whosoever ascribes partners unto God has surely fabricated a tremendous sin. (Q. 4:48)”


More double-talk. What is justice to one person might not be justice to another. Yet, what is justice to all persons is verily justice.

Those persons who did not find Muhammad’s justice to be just, they were indeed condemned as transgressors.


More double-talk.

I am an apostate; would Muhammad be gentle with me? Or would his gentleness consist of not burning me alive, and instead, merely murdering me?

“Some people apostatized after accepting Islam, and so, ‘Ali burned them alive. Ibn ‘Abbas said: ‘If it had been me, I would not have burned them. God’s Messenger [Muhammad] said: ‘No one should be punished with the punishment of God. But, if it had been me, I would have killed them. For whoever changes his religion, kill him.’”
(Sunan an-Nasai)


As we can see in that hadith which I cited above, Muhammad’s sense of mercy and justice is perverted. It is praiseworthy that a person convert to Islam, but it is intolerable that they apostatize. A clear double-standard.


And we are to behave (as much as is possible) as Allah behaves?

“If you love only those who love you, what reward do you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing? Don’t even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore, just as your heavenly Father is complete in showing love to everyone, so also you must be complete.”

Wise words are these. You see? It is precisely that, we must be merciful to those who are NOT merciful to us.

Long live the King of Kings!

You know nothing about Muhammad. Nor does anybody else. Everything you THINK you know about Muhammad is just heresay.

Every writing about Muhammad that is out there today came into existence 300+ years after his death.

And guess who started propagating the stories about Muhammad 300 years after his death?

The corrupt, Satanic Abbassid Caliphate.

Political agenda to control the masses maybe?

Please research the facts beforeyou just regurgitate baseless stories you have heard.

There's a reason that Muhammad is barely mentioned in the Quran.

The messenger is not the point of focus.

Only the message matters. Not the messenger.

But humans love to worship the messenger.

Humans are prone to evil.

Humans love to deny their Creator and worship the Creation.

Aamer.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
You should post more. We are severely lacking in people of the Islamic faith in this forum.

Thank you my friend. I appreciate the kind words .But I don't consider myself as someone of the "Islamic faith." I don't attend Sunni or Shiite mosques. They would either kick me out or behead me (depending on which country I'm in). I don't care for labels. I'm simply a monotheist and a student of the scriptures.

If someone asks me if I'm a Muslim... My answer is...

By definition... Yes. A Muslim by definition is someone who submits his will to the Almighty Alone.

But I don't belong to the cult that claims to be the religion of Islam today.

I believe the Quran is the word of the Most High. But sectarian "Muslims" today do not believe the Quran. Because the Quran says that it is complete and no further text is needed. But sectarian Muslims brought in hadith books (alleged sayings of Muhammad) 300 years later and follow the teachings of these man made books with more devotion than the word of their Creator.

It's almost exactly what the Jews did by giving the Talmud (Satanic book btw) more importance than the Torah.

Silly humans.

Aamer.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
@Sustainer: Should any book of religion be taken literally? Do we worship God or a book?
It seems to me most religions worship the book, can anyone explain why please?

Perhaps some people are not very good at handling their craving for certainty and allow it to lead them into scripture worship.

Makes sense to me.
And perhaps the craving for certainty comes from fear. Can be fear of a punishing God if they made mistakes.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
@LuisDantas: Perhaps some people are not very good at handling their craving for certainty and allow it to lead them into scripture worship

Perhaps, but it is not difficult to understand and accept simplicity.

Scripture Worship easily leads to arrogance "my scripture is the only and best one to lead to the Truth"
Easily you end up in an Ego-trip. Called arrogance. Which is known to be blinding [not open for other truth]
So then it's difficult to understand and accept simplicity [caught in their own created net of their truth]
 
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Aamer

Truth Seeker
This reminds me of a doubt that I have.

How exactly do Muslims tend to interpret such a goal? Indeed, how literally?

How often, if at all, is it claimed that loving one's spouse, parents and children (for instance) is or could become shirk? Or, for that matter, fearing a rampaging lion ahead of one?

Surely those count as "not God"... or do they?

How often is it possible or necessary to clarify that?

How much of an actual controversy there is within Muslim communities on this matter, I wonder?

When it comes to commentary of the Quran... Just ignore it and read ONLY the translation. And make sure it's a translation that's not funded by the Wahhabi Saudi Government. That commentary is probably the personal wishful thinking of a wife beating, ignorant, intolerant Saudi caveman.

Loving your spouse, parents or children is not Shirk. It's normal human behavior.

Praying to a statue, religious symbol or human/saint is Shirk.

It's a lot more simple than people make it out to be.

Peace and blessings my friend. The Almighty is not as complicated as humans make him out to be. :)

Aamer.
 
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