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Is God Omniscient as people say?

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
None of this makes any difference. My point is in answer to the claim "God cannot lie." If one believes Jeremiah 4:10, then it's evidence that god can lie. The why and wherefore makes no difference:. GOD C-A-N LIE, and has done so. Want to make excuses for his lie go right ahead, but it doesn't change the fact of the matter.

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Nope, like I said had you pickup what the subject is about, then you would have seen that God did not deceive Israel, but Israel knew way ahead what would happen if Israel turned their back on God.

If you for warned your friend what would happen if they turned their back on you and then you found out your friend turned their back on you, Now you for warned them, What would happen. Did you deceive them or did they not heed the warning you gave them ? So who's at fault you for giving them the warning what would happen or them for not heeding your warning ?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Nope, like I said had you pickup what the subject is about, then you would have seen that God did not deceive Israel, but Israel knew way ahead what would happen if Israel turned their back on God.
At the very outset I said

"If one believes what Jeremiah says is the truth then god has indeed lied."
Obviously you don't believe what Jeremiah said was the truth, which puts an end to the discussion.

.

 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Perhaps I misunderstand you, but scripture is ancient documents, and ancient documents say what they say. Any attempt to impose on them an interpretation not present in the text is a perversion of what they say, surely?

I dont understand. When someone quotes scripture, I may read it one way and the quoter something entirely different. Its hard to apply over two thousand year concept and morals to the 21st century. The bible needs to be read in the light of the people's culture not just person who wrote it.

Its easier to understand the quoter's point if he or she adds commentary to scripture. That way its easier to read and I can talk about the point made rather than trying to dicipher six or so scriptures back to back as if that time period applies to today that I automatically understand it.

It doesnt speak for itself. Plus, I never used the bible at all for any source of inspiration. Maybe another method would help. If all is based on scripture, its a one sided bias conversation.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
At the very outset I said

"If one believes what Jeremiah says is the truth then god has indeed lied."
Obviously you don't believe what Jeremiah said was the truth, which puts an end to the discussion.

.



Well until God showed Jeremiah his error, then Jeremiah saw that God was right after all.

But then you wouldn't know this, seeing your only going by one Verse of Jeremiah ?

But had you read chapters 5,6,7 of Jeremiah.and pickup the subject, then you would haved seen as did Jeremiah that God did not deceive Israel, But Israel fault for not heeding God's warning.

I know, you would say it's your fault, because your kid stick their hand in the fire, after you gave them warning what would happen if the stick their hand in the fire.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's what you were taught, But does not mean it's in God's word.
There is no where in God's word that will support your claim as God knowing what is to happen before it happens.

Show one book of the Bible and chapter and verse, As to where it says that God knows what is to happen before it happens.

That in my studing,reading the Bible in 45 years I have as of yet to come across such a verse or chapter in the Bible that makes this claim.
That God knows what's to happen before it happens. I hear alot of Pastor's, Preachers say this, but I have not found anything in the Bible to support this claim.

How is he god of he is ignorant of what will happen in the future?

Does he go by our common-sense laws or is he outside it?

How can gods laws and nature be confined to one book? :confused:

Kinda off topic question: I havent heard any other religion that personifies god as a being in nature. Its usually a mythological being, like scripture, to depict the nature of spirit which has no form but life within us. Its life made interactive. Other gods are like a force that through ancestors and spirits etc are the people who interact. God is so powerful and spiritual that no one can define god as anything, person, or it.

Yet, christisnity does. Is there a reason that god needs to have physical and human traits for it to interact with christians?

Jews use Hashem and Bahi doesnt call it a name but an essense. To me, its a spark of life.

Not he. Not she.

To use terms like that is depreciating what a lot or you call god.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
How is he god of he is ignorant of what will happen in the future?

Does he go by our common-sense la or is he outside it?

How can gods laws and nature be confined to one book? :confused:

Kinda off topic question: I havent heard any other religion that personifies god as a being in nature. Its usually a mythological being, like scripture, to depict the nature of spirit which has no form but life within us. Its life made interactive. Other gods are like a force that through ancestors and spirits etc are the people who interact. God is so powerful and spiritual that no one can define god as anything, person, or it.

Yet, christisnity does. Is there a reason that god needs to have physical and human traits for it to interact with christians?

Jews use Hashem and Bahi doesnt call it a name but an essense. To me, its a spark of life.

Not he. Not she.

To use terms like that is depreciating what a lot or you call god.

Look, how is God ignorant of the future, When God gave what is to happen in the future?
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Is God Omniscient as people are being taught in the churches that God is Omniscient, When there is no where in the Bible that makes this claim?

Let's take the book of 1st John 3:20--"For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things"

At first reading this, a person can be lead to believe, that God is omniscient of knowing all things.

But is this actually what it's saying?

In 1st John chapter 3, is speaking about the heart, God knows all things of the heart, Whether it is good or bad intentions.

God searches the heart to see whether it has good intentions or bad intentions.

Then when a person acts upon the intention of their heart, then it becomes evidence that their intention of their heart was either good or bad intentions.

Does this mean, that God knew beforehand what their intention was, No.

What it means, is that God does not know, only until it's revealed in a person heart, What their true intentions are.

Then when a person acts upon their intention of their heart, Then it has come to its fullest discloser of their intention of their heart is.

But until it comes into a person heart, there's no way of knowing whether their intentions are good or bad. It all starts in the heart first.
Only God can know what's in the heart, whether there will be found good intentions or bad intentions.

It's like a person who goes thru life thinking no bad thoughts, Until one day, bad thoughts start to enter their heart.
Now it's starting in their heart.

Now that person has the choice, to either cast it off or follow it thru.to it's fullest discloser on the outside.

So does God know beforehand, what a person is going to do ?

No, only until it's found in their heart, Then God knows their intention of their heart, Whether it's good or bad.

If a person walks around hateing, Then it's in their heart to hate, So God searches the intention of their heart is to hate.
So everything starts in the heart first, Then when the hate has over taken their heart, Then the hate starts to show its fullest discloser on the outside, This is when things really start to happen.

So is God Omniscient, As in knowing all things beforehand, No, not until, good or bad intentions are found in the heart. Then God see into the heart, to know what exactly are the intentions of the heart. Whether they are bad or good intentions.
Let's take the book of Ezekiel 28:15, for a good example.
"You was perfect in your ways from the day that you was created, till iniquity was found in you"

As you can see, God did not know that Lucifer had any iniquity in him, Till Iniquity was found in him, his heart.
So how is God Omniscient ?
As people say?


As I see it, the first mistake here is defining God based on the stories, myths, and beliefs from a book written by mankind.

As I see it, one can discover God just by what exists around us. In a time-based causal universe, God's actions are not hidden. Further, these actions can not be altered by mankind. Understand these actions and the view will change.

Is God Omniscient? I would have to say YES. If you say yes, this would bring you to the next task at hand. Discover why this world and things are what they are. One must also keep in mind that a Being capable of creating all this has to be very smart and very advanced. That means there are complexities well beyond the simply surface. One might just discover that this world is not the mess one has been taught all their lives.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Look, how is God ignorant of the future, When God gave what is to happen in the future?

You said god doesnt know the future. So, if he doesnt know, than how can he give something he is not familar with once he gave it?

Shouldnt he know the future since he authored creation to where nothing is new to him at all?

I mean, if I put ants in a box, I wouldnt know which way the ants would go. If I patterned the box to where the ants cant go no where but through the maze I created, how would I not know what they Will do when I created the maze to where they cant go no other way but the one I created?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
As I see it, the first mistake here is defining God based on the stories, myths, and beliefs from a book written by mankind.

As I see it, one can discover God just by what exists around us. In a time-based causal universe, God's actions are not hidden. Further, these actions can not be altered by mankind. Understand these actions and the view will change.

Is God Omniscient? I would have to say YES. If you say yes, this would bring you to the next task at hand. Discover why this world and things are what they are. One must also keep in mind that a Being capable of creating all this has to be very smart and very advanced. That means there are complexities well beyond the simply surface. One might just discover that this world is not the mess one has been taught all their lives.


As I see it, that you show ignorance of trying to give the right answers on things you don't believe in.

That's like someone who does not believe in nor accepts evolution, but their going to speak on evolution.
Now how are they to give the right answers on evolution when they do not believe in nor accepts evolution.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
You said god doesnt know the future. So, if he doesnt know, than how can he give something he is not familar with once he gave it?

Shouldnt he know the future since he authored creation to where nothing is new to him at all?

I mean, if I put ants in a box, I wouldnt know which way the ants would go. If I patterned the box to where the ants cant go no where but through the maze I created, how would I not know what they Will do when I created the maze to where they cant go no other way but the one I created?


As to where did you get that at.
I said since God gave the future, then God would know exactly what is to happen in the future.
Maybe you should get some glasses to read.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There is no where in God's word that will support your claim as God knowing what is to happen before it happens.

Do not insult me.

If there is no support that god knows anything in the future, why would:

Look, how is God ignorant of the future, When God gave what is to happen in the future?

So, does god know the future or not?

How is god ignorant of the future when gave what happens in the future (exactly question whats in my post; reread it)?

Does he know what will happen in the future?
If not, how could he not be ignorant (not knowing) of it?

How can god not know what will happen in the future but know because he gave it at the same time?

Do not insult me.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Show one book of the Bible and chapter and verse, As to where it says that God knows what is to happen before it happens.

The bible does say a lot about god knowing everything and even jesus referring to god as him knowing all even more than jesus himself.

So, how can god know everything but dont know the future?

Is "everything" limited to past and present?

It is for us, but for god?
If so, how?

Edit.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I dont understand. When someone quotes scripture, I may read it one way and the quoter something entirely different. Its hard to apply over two thousand year concept and morals to the 21st century. The bible needs to be read in the light of the people's culture not just person who wrote it.
Scripture is a set of ancient documents written by various people at various times pursuing various agendas. To interpret those books to make them conform to someone else's preconceptions or desires can only be a perversion of what they actually say, surely? What else could it be?
 

Punta Piñal

Heretic
DING DING DING DING DING!!!

"Letting" people do these things? My dear, predestination does not mean God LETS anyone do anything--predestination means that God designed everything that everyone does. He doesn't LET them, He MAKES them.

I know this is a hard pill for human beings to swallow. After all, the temptation to want to be our own gods, to be in control of our own destinies under the illusion that we know what's best for ourselves better than our Creator does, is the original sin that got us kicked out of the Garden (and also what got Satan kicked out of heaven) in the first place. But we are not in control; God is.

Well, you can define God the way you like, but I will stick to the omni-God. It's really kind of comforting, knowing that we live in the best of all possible universes, because a God Who would want to create the best of all possible universes, Who would know how to create the best of all possible universes, and Who would have the power to create the best of all possible universes is in control.

As for having a "reason" to love God, that's just silly from the perspective of predestination; either you were created to love God, or you weren't. As for knowing your prayers, if you're praying some version of "MY will be done" instead of "THY will be done," then you've been predestined to do it wrong, anyway.
Then the creation of someone whom God predestined to be damned is a pointless exercise. Thus, confirming God's omniscience, within the framework of predestination, would negate God's purposefulness. Creating a person, with the full knowledge and intent that this person be damned, is an exercise in futility. It's like a child playing with a sand castle by the beach, at best, and sadistic at worst. This kind of logic can also be self-fulfilling: a person engaged in destructive behaviour may decide to continue on the basis of, "Well, the situation is hopeless, I'm stuck, and God predestined my destruction, anyway!"
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Do not insult me.

If there is no support that god knows anything in the future, why would:

Look, how is God ignorant of the future, When God gave what is to happen in the future?

So, does god know the future or not?

How is god ignorant of the future when gave what happens in the future (exactly question whats in my post; reread it)?

Does he know what will happen in the future?
If not, how could he not be ignorant (not knowing) of it?

How can god not know what will happen in the future but know because he gave it at the same time?

Do not insult me.

Look, it's quite simple, God gave what is to happen in future, so it's obvious that God would know what is to happen in the future.
It's as simple, as you gave a gift, so you would know what the gift is.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Look, it's quite simple, God gave what is to happen in future, so it's obvious that God would know what is to happen in the future.
It's as simple, as you gave a gift, so you would know what the gift is.

Why would you say there is no support that god knows everything (as posted) but then say he knows the future (above)?

That is like saying, I know whats in the gift I give but I dont know everything.

Is his knowledge limited to the gifts he gives?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
There is nothing there, as saying that God as being all knowing. Only that God has understanding of things.

There is no where throughout the whole bible the word ( omniscient ) is found.

The word ( omniscient ) is just a man made false teaching of man's.

Do you know that of Isaiah 46:9-10--"I make known the end from the beginning,from ancient times"

When was the beginning, from ancient times?
It should be rather obvious what the "beginning" is.....it is the starting point of all things, right?
"Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight, Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account" Hebrews 4:13.

Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight, for God searches the hearts of man, that everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him whom we must give account of our hearts to God.
If nothing in all creation is hidden, then all is known...ie:eek:mniscience
"I the Lord search the heart, I try the minds, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the reward of his doings" Jeremiah 17:10.

Therefore the Lord searches the heart.to give every man according to the reward of his doings.

"And, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be"
Revelation 22:12
relevance?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Of course it isn't, but, as I explained, having made a mistake is inherent in personal regret.

So where does the personal regret come into play?

Regret can mean that person is sorry. And I understand if God was sorry, because of what people did with their opportunity. But it doesn’t mean it as a mistake to give life for humans, for example because there is people who are not too bad.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Regret can mean that person is sorry.
Sure it can, but in regard to regret, being sorry arises from, it. It's only because one regrets doing something that being sorry arises. And don't forget that we're taking about personal regret. Regretting things one did.

.
 
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Bird123

Well-Known Member
As I see it, that you show ignorance of trying to give the right answers on things you don't believe in.

That's like someone who does not believe in nor accepts evolution, but their going to speak on evolution.
Now how are they to give the right answers on evolution when they do not believe in nor accepts evolution.

Perhaps, your mistake is relying on beliefs rather than Discovering the Facts for yourself. Is accepting or believing something is right supposed to make it Truth? Of course not, if Truth is what you are after.
 
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